| Author |
Message |
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:54 am Post subject:
your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 03:15:05 GMT, fordly863@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | reactance
is a property ONLY associated to AC. I can mathmatically
prove this, and have many times. Xl=2(pi)Fl
XC=1/2(pi)Fc
Again frequency in both cases in DC is Zero which essentially
makes the above formuli invalid as no component of this equation
can equal zero in order for it to give the corret answer.
warman proove me wrong
be sure to
SHOW THE MATH
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 04:33:09 GMT, "Jim Warman"
<mechanic@tenalpsulet.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
x-no-archive: yes
Calculus is beyond both of us.... Complete the circuit or the ignition
coil... current starts to flow and a magnetic field builds.... as the lines
of magnetic foce expand across the cunductor coil, back emf is induced and
we experience reactance. Is it intended? No.... Does it happen? Yes..... Is
this an AC circuit? No, polarity has not changed, it is indeed a DC
circuit - a pulsating DC circuit, but a DC circuit none-the-less. And the
only formulae you can come up with are cut and paste from electronic web
sites....
Reactance can be associated with a moving magnetic field..... it is
impedance without resistance. You need to be able to think in terms of cause
and effect.
The modern automobile has many instances of frequency without polarity
change.... but then you knw that and merely forgot for a few moments, right?
Surprisingly, blissful ignorance shouldn't be thought of as brilliance. You
constantly assert that I have something to prove to you and you avoid, time
and again, ever offering up any proof that you have the foggiest idea what
it is you are talking about. I suggest that you might lead a more
fullfilling life if you were the least bit helpful.
And that's Mr. Warman to you, cretin.
|
look at this blubbering fool
you claim it exists but dont have a formula
on the other hand
like i said
just caculate xi and xc
DO THE MATH
CASE CLOSED
perhaps u should spend more time
learning simple electricity before you shoot your mouth off
lmfao
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Jim Warman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:55 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
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|
I have no need to justify myself to you..... The only time you have answered
a question is to do a cut and paste. And, in the grand scheme of things,
neither one of us is designing electronic circuits..... ergo, the math that
either one of us needs doesn't extend to your futile cut and paste attempt,
anyway.
Let's go down through your (many) mistakes..... you state that a DC circuit
can have no impedance when an impedance is something that will limit current
flow - by your statement, are we to assume that resistors don't work in a DC
circuit? Obviously, untrue.
You state a DC circuit has no frequency.... in the modern automobile, there
are many sensors that deliver information based on a DC frequency - MAF
sensors, MAP sensors, hall effect switches.... if any of these have never
used frequency as information, what do they use? The same smoke you're
blowing out your ass?
You can't even offer decent help or instruction to a neophyte regarding a
brake lamp circuit. Folks come here looking for help... not some useless
little drool spot from a buffoon that can't answer a straight question.
BTW... if you had made it as far as 3rd year, you would remember them
talking about the effects of reactance is a coiled conductor... the reason a
coil wont spark when the circuit is "made" but it will when the circuit is
opened....
Anyone's greatest fear is that some innocent person will listen to some of
your turgid little comments and either cause themselves injury or add
needless costs to their problems.
And don't worry... be a long time before our shop would consider hiring
someone as low on the food chain as you... |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:16:55 GMT, "Jim Warman"
<mechanic@tenalpsulet.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I have no need to justify myself to you..... The only time you have answered
a question is to do a cut and paste. And, in the grand scheme of things,
neither one of us is designing electronic circuits..... ergo, the math that
either one of us needs doesn't extend to your futile cut and paste attempt,
anyway.
Let's go down through your (many) mistakes..... you state that a DC circuit
can have no impedance when an impedance is something that will limit current
flow - by your statement, are we to assume that resistors don't work in a DC
circuit? Obviously, untrue.
true |
DO THE MATH
no impedence
lmfao
| Quote: | You state a DC circuit has no frequency.... in the modern automobile, there
are many sensors that deliver information based on a DC frequency - MAF
sensors, MAP sensors, hall effect switches.... if any of these have never
used frequency as information, what do they use? The same smoke you're
blowing out your ass?
|
lmfao
exactly where did i saythis
| Quote: | You can't even offer decent help or instruction to a neophyte regarding a
brake lamp circuit. Folks come here looking for help... not some useless
little drool spot from a buffoon that can't answer a straight question.
|
diagnosed rite the first time
| Quote: | BTW... if you had made it as far as 3rd year, you would remember them
talking about the effects of reactance is a coiled conductor... the reason a
coil wont spark when the circuit is "made" but it will when the circuit is
opened....
|
thats called emf tard
lmfao
not impedence
lmfao
| Quote: | Anyone's greatest fear is that some innocent person will listen to some of
your turgid little comments and either cause themselves injury or add
needless costs to their problems.
|
like using chains to break ball joints ?
| Quote: | And don't worry... be a long time before our shop would consider hiring
someone as low on the food chain as you...
lmfao |
sl ford will take me
lmfao
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Backyard Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
--
- Yes, I'm a crusty old geezer curmudgeon.. deal with it! - |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:11 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
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|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
|
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float" |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:11 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:11:36 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
|
just do the math
lmfao
case closed
hurc ast |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:15 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:11:36 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
|
do the math and you will see that
it has no impedence
lmfao
hurc ast |
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Backyard Mechanic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:23 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
|
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
--
- Yes, I'm a crusty old geezer curmudgeon.. deal with it! - |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:43 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:23:58 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
| Quote: | opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
|
lmfao
hey hack
you said you were an engineer
you must know them specks were
obtained under AC conditions
you must be snickering inside
watching nelson and warman squirm
IMPEDANCE AND PHASE ANGLE RELATIONSHIPS
The Impedance Z in an AC circuit is a generalized measure of the ohmic
resistance of a circuit element or a combination of circuit elements.
The units of Impedance is always in ohms, W.
The impedance can be used to find the emf (or voltage) across some
circuit component (or combination of components) using a equation that
has the same structure as Ohm's Law.
In words: The voltage across a circuit element at some moment t can be
found by multiplying the element's Inpedance Z times the current not
at that monent t but the current evaluated at some other time that is
either ahead or behind the current moment by a time t. The time shift
t can be determined once the phase angle is f known.
The Impedances of a capacitor or an inductor are frequency dependent,
while that of a resistor is constant.
Circuit Element(s) Impedence (W) Phase Angle (f)
Z = R 0o
Z = XL = wL +90o
Z = XC =1/wC -90o
0o < f < 90o
-90o < f < 0o
f > 0o if XL > XC
f = 0o if XL = XC (Resonance)
f < 0o if XL < XC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voltage and Current Phase Angle Relationships
The following is a visual derivation of the general inpedance and
phase angle equations:
The last figure shows the phase relationship between the voltages
across different circuit components and total voltage across the whole
circuit. Observe that the current is in phase with the resistor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Show Topics Menu Frames |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:29 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 23:15:25 GMT, fordly863@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:11:36 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
do the math and you will see that
it has no impedence
|
Actually, you are WRONG. It has an inductive reactance which changes
with frequency. By definition, this is impedence.
|
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:34 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:23:58 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
| Quote: | opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
|
The ignition system operates on a DC power supply - yes. But the
ACTUAL behaviour of the ignition system most definitely entails an
alternating current component. It is due to this "ac" component that
it exhibits "impedence" Impedence requires bi-directional flow - and
any way you slice it, the current IS alternating. Whether it actually
changes polarity is strictly a case of semantics. Who defines what is
Zero, to determine if the voltage crosses zero (the definition of
alternating current) |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:50 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:29:50 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 23:15:25 GMT, fordly863@hotmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:11:36 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
do the math and you will see that
it has no impedence
Actually, you are WRONG. It has an inductive reactance which changes
with frequency. By definition, this is impedence.
|
hmmmm
lets do some math shall we?
lmfao
U GO GIRL
lmfao
hurc ast |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:51 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:34:17 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:23:58 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
The ignition system operates on a DC power supply - yes. But the
ACTUAL behaviour of the ignition system most definitely entails an
alternating current component. It is due to this "ac" component that
it exhibits "impedence" Impedence requires bi-directional flow - and
any way you slice it, the current IS alternating. Whether it actually
changes polarity is strictly a case of semantics. Who defines what is
Zero, to determine if the voltage crosses zero (the definition of
alternating current)
|
alternating
lmfao
no alternating current in a battery
unless you hook up a crappy tire a/c converter
lmfao
u been educated
hurc ast |
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Jim Warman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:00 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
We could call it an AC circuit "characteristic".. but not really a
component. Lines of magnetic force moving across a conductor induce a
current flow. This is part of our ignition coil and how many other circuits
in a DC system..... the key being that the magnetic lines of force are
moving...
Let's take a look at a simple relay coil..... When we "make" the circuit,
current begins to flow through the windings.... as soon as the current
starts to flow, magnetic lines of force start to move across the coil of
wire. This induces current flow into the coil in the opposite direction as
the applied force. Through a visious circle type scenario.... the coil is
relatively slow to build to saturation since the reactance... the more
current that flows, the more the magnetic field grows, the more it induces
reactance..... in electronic terms (measured in nanoseconds in some cases
and milliseconds in others), it stretches the event out incredibly.
Inductive reactance.... impedance without resistance - hardly something
exclusive to AC circuits.
<nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message
news:f1if21d6i4h0te16bo4jjpgh0h0j19e49h@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:23:58 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
The ignition system operates on a DC power supply - yes. But the
ACTUAL behaviour of the ignition system most definitely entails an
alternating current component. It is due to this "ac" component that
it exhibits "impedence" Impedence requires bi-directional flow - and
any way you slice it, the current IS alternating. Whether it actually
changes polarity is strictly a case of semantics. Who defines what is
Zero, to determine if the voltage crosses zero (the definition of
alternating current) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jacob Suter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:09 am Post subject:
Re: your blubbering warman where is your math ? |
|
|
fordly863@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:34:17 -0500, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:23:58 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
opined in news:54oe211gjsa7pljgq02m7u42ormsneui2f@4ax.com:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:26:21 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@Yaywho.com> wrote:
An excellent example of why a chimpanzee can be trained to drive, but
shouldnt be given a drivers license
pointless drivel
Is the classic ignition system AC or DC?!!
Well, since technically transformers only work on AC, and the ignition
coil is an (auto)transformer, and it converts 12 volts to roughly
60,000, I'd say you almost HAVE to take the position that the ignition
system operates on AC. It is an alternating current displaced (or
biased) above chassis ground by roughly 6 volts, to start with, and it
kinda "floats" from there.
Take a look at the firing signature of an ignition system on a scope
and you will see the AC, you will see the "bias", and you WILL see it
"float"
Nope, it's a dc circuit.
And the coil is designed to reactance/reluctance specs; thus .. ahem..
impedance is implied.
The ignition system operates on a DC power supply - yes. But the
ACTUAL behaviour of the ignition system most definitely entails an
alternating current component. It is due to this "ac" component that
it exhibits "impedence" Impedence requires bi-directional flow - and
any way you slice it, the current IS alternating. Whether it actually
changes polarity is strictly a case of semantics. Who defines what is
Zero, to determine if the voltage crosses zero (the definition of
alternating current)
alternating
lmfao
no alternating current in a battery
unless you hook up a crappy tire a/c converter
lmfao
u been educated
hurc ast
|
Ah, but there is AC at the pickup which is amplified by the module.
Apparently you've never "played" with a duraspark system. I have, it
gave me a much better idea of whats going on with ignition systems.
I suggest you stick to computer controlled vehicles that tell you whats
wrong with them. You'd never make it as a mechanic, parts swapper.
I guess you think car audio systems are pure DC too.
I'll use your words: "u been educated", bitch.
JS |
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