| Author |
Message |
John Burns
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:00 am Post subject:
Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
My old 525e changes gear at 3900rpm, it's got the basic non-E/H tranny.
Seems to me that even on an eta that's a bit of a wste and another
1000rpm could only improve acceleration. It seems to come "on cam" not
long before then.
Perhaps owners of manual etas (never sold in the UK) could comment on
performance above 4k rpm?
Now the question is, why does the box change then? And to me the answer
is because the hydraulic control unit tells it too, kickdown is manual
rather than electronic after all.
Now this control unit doesn't look to hard to swap out, it lives just
above the filter screen and looks to be easily removable. Swapping it
with a unit from a 320iA/M20, 520i or M30 based car's gearbox would
raise the change rpm to around 5000ish (I think my 635 changed at
5500rpm whichis maybe too high for an eta, but anyway it had the E/H
box).
Seems to me this could be a very cheap way to get more acceleration from
an automatic 325e/525e/528e with little down side.
Any comments?
--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html
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JB
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:48 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
"John Burns" <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:419A789A.5016@unixnerd.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: | My old 525e changes gear at 3900rpm, it's got the basic non-E/H tranny.
Seems to me that even on an eta that's a bit of a wste and another
1000rpm could only improve acceleration. It seems to come "on cam" not
long before then.
Perhaps owners of manual etas (never sold in the UK) could comment on
performance above 4k rpm?
|
I never knew that there wasn't a UK manual eta. My old eta (badged!) 525i
manual maybe wasn't after all. It used to rev to way past 5k. I even removed
the centrifugal 'limiter' in the rotor arm to let it really get up there
too! On good oil with correct tappet clearances the old beast was certainly
good for 5500-6000rpm. Best £80.00 I ever spent that car was. Only surpassed
by the £125.00 E23 3.5 I replaced it with!
| Quote: |
Now the question is, why does the box change then? And to me the answer
is because the hydraulic control unit tells it too, kickdown is manual
rather than electronic after all.
Now this control unit doesn't look to hard to swap out, it lives just
above the filter screen and looks to be easily removable. Swapping it
with a unit from a 320iA/M20, 520i or M30 based car's gearbox would
raise the change rpm to around 5000ish (I think my 635 changed at
5500rpm whichis maybe too high for an eta, but anyway it had the E/H
box).
Seems to me this could be a very cheap way to get more acceleration from
an automatic 325e/525e/528e with little down side.
|
I'm sure that this must have been done at sometime here in the UK surely?
| Quote: |
Any comments?
What have you got to lose? Go for it, and report to us back here please |
John.
cheers,
JB |
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Mr Fix It
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
Thats not right!!
My friend ... has owned an eta for 7 years.
His dad for 8 years.
Me ... 5 years.
Three different cars, all etas, all the same year as each other.
All fitted with the fully mechanical box. (No E-H).
And all three (if throttle is pushed to the floor) will happily
run up to 5000rpm in first, then 5000rpm in second, then
approx 4800rpm in third.
3900 sounds wrong!!!
Check the control cable from throttle butterfly to gearbox is set
correctly ... if its too tight first gear will change up sooner than it
should ... and second gear will be the opposite (mine did when i
played with the adjustment).
One thing which is extremly well worth doing ... in fact the car
becomes a loose-tailed hooligan drive .... is to put on a diff.
from a two litre car!!!
It will be substantiallly lower geared ... although it will still do
130mph @ 5000rpm (the original gearing is so tall it holds the
top speed down to 120mph tops ... let it rev a bit more and
you do gain another 10mph).
Pullaway is mental ... i took mine on the santa pod run what you
brung the other week ... out of 7 runs, i kept with the rival car
on pullaway for 6 runs (anything from pug 205's, to golfs, 2 litre
modified corsas,etc) ... keeps with them up to 30mph, even
though they hold big revs and dump their clutch on pullaway,
when all i have is an autobox and fast right foot.
Oh ... and the seventh run ... lets just say 140lb/ft from idle rpm,
running through a lower geared transmission WILL smoke an
etas tyres through 1st and second gear on santa pod!!
(All on video as well!).
B.t.w ... an eta's peak bhp is at 4250rpm (125bhp) but it
drops to 122bhp @ 5000rpm (rev limiter territory) ... i think this
slight decrease is enough to make the gearbox change up a cog when on a
sprint.
So .. best modification .. put on a low ratio diff.
Fuel economy around town is unchanged ... its autobox is in
one gear higher than it would normally be at any given speed.
(3rd instead of 2nd, 4th instead of 3rd).
And what most people don't realise ... theres more torque out of
my back wheels in first gear at pullaway revs than any m535i or
m5 ... 'cause its an eta.
--
Regards....
Steve
"JB" <jmbyrneNILSPAM@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2vveejF2qs9mbU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: |
"John Burns" <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:419A789A.5016@unixnerd.demon.co.uk...
My old 525e changes gear at 3900rpm, it's got the basic non-E/H tranny.
Seems to me that even on an eta that's a bit of a wste and another
1000rpm could only improve acceleration. It seems to come "on cam" not
long before then.
Perhaps owners of manual etas (never sold in the UK) could comment on
performance above 4k rpm?
I never knew that there wasn't a UK manual eta. My old eta (badged!) 525i
manual maybe wasn't after all. It used to rev to way past 5k. I even
removed
the centrifugal 'limiter' in the rotor arm to let it really get up there
too! On good oil with correct tappet clearances the old beast was
certainly
good for 5500-6000rpm. Best £80.00 I ever spent that car was. Only
surpassed
by the £125.00 E23 3.5 I replaced it with!
Now the question is, why does the box change then? And to me the answer
is because the hydraulic control unit tells it too, kickdown is manual
rather than electronic after all.
Now this control unit doesn't look to hard to swap out, it lives just
above the filter screen and looks to be easily removable. Swapping it
with a unit from a 320iA/M20, 520i or M30 based car's gearbox would
raise the change rpm to around 5000ish (I think my 635 changed at
5500rpm whichis maybe too high for an eta, but anyway it had the E/H
box).
Seems to me this could be a very cheap way to get more acceleration from
an automatic 325e/525e/528e with little down side.
I'm sure that this must have been done at sometime here in the UK surely?
Any comments?
What have you got to lose? Go for it, and report to us back here please
John.
cheers,
JB
|
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Badger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
"John Burns" <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:419A789A.5016@unixnerd.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: | My old 525e changes gear at 3900rpm, it's got the basic non-E/H tranny.
Seems to me that even on an eta that's a bit of a wste and another
1000rpm could only improve acceleration. It seems to come "on cam" not
long before then.
Perhaps owners of manual etas (never sold in the UK) could comment on
performance above 4k rpm?
Now the question is, why does the box change then? And to me the answer
is because the hydraulic control unit tells it too, kickdown is manual
rather than electronic after all.
Now this control unit doesn't look to hard to swap out, it lives just
above the filter screen and looks to be easily removable. Swapping it
with a unit from a 320iA/M20, 520i or M30 based car's gearbox would
raise the change rpm to around 5000ish (I think my 635 changed at
5500rpm whichis maybe too high for an eta, but anyway it had the E/H
box).
Seems to me this could be a very cheap way to get more acceleration from
an automatic 325e/525e/528e with little down side.
Any comments?
John, been down this route with the Landrover version of this gearbox, as |
fitted to 3.5 and 3.9 discoveries/rangerovers. Will get back to you with
more info as soon as I get a chance.
Badger. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
In article <2vvmasF2qav23U1@uni-berlin.de>,
Mr Fix It <eveodds@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Check the control cable from throttle butterfly to gearbox is set
correctly ... if its too tight first gear will change up sooner than it
should ... and second gear will be the opposite (mine did when i
played with the adjustment).
|
IIRC, the cable is merely for kick down - although this also holds the car
to maximum speed in each gear. It should be set to just operate the
kickdown valve without straining anything. But make sure the rest of the
throttle mechanism is in good condition with no play and correctly
adjusted before altering anything.
--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.*
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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John Burns
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
| Quote: | I never knew that there wasn't a UK manual eta. My old eta (badged!) 525i
manual maybe wasn't after all. It used to rev to way past 5k. I even removed
|
You had an M30 :-)
| Quote: | the centrifugal 'limiter' in the rotor arm to let it really get up there
|
A good trick with Jetronic-L, eta was always Motronic in the UK (early
US etas were Jet-L).
--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html |
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Badger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d0fd96a95dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <2vvmasF2qav23U1@uni-berlin.de>,
Mr Fix It <eveodds@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Check the control cable from throttle butterfly to gearbox is set
correctly ... if its too tight first gear will change up sooner than it
should ... and second gear will be the opposite (mine did when i
played with the adjustment).
IIRC, the cable is merely for kick down - although this also holds the car
to maximum speed in each gear. It should be set to just operate the
kickdown valve without straining anything. But make sure the rest of the
throttle mechanism is in good condition with no play and correctly
adjusted before altering anything.
The cable has 2 functions on this model of box, firstly it is attached to a |
cam in the box that acts via a plunger and a spring on a multi-spool valve,
this valve controls the shift points of the box and is opposed by "governor"
pressure. (A hydraulic pressure that is governed ccording to roadspeed, by a
centrifugal relief valve on the gearbox output shaft within the
tail-housing. A common failure on the ZF4 is the governor weights seizing.)
At low throttle openings the valve moves across against the spring at lower
governor pressure values, causing upshifts at lower roadspeeds. As the
throttle is opened, the cam increases the spring force opposing the governor
pressure, causing the upshifts to occur at higher roadspeeds.
The second function is a larger detent at the end of the cam, this detent
physically overcomes the hydraulic pressure in top gear and manually
downshifts to 3rd. If the box is in 3rd, the extra spring pressure is
sufficient to cause a 3-2 downshift. A downshift that would otherwise
overspeed the engine cannot happen due to safety interlock valves in the
system, by equating pump output pressure to engine rpm.
Badger. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:53 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
In article <cnivfm$942$1@sparta.btinternet.com>,
Badger <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote:
| Quote: | IIRC, the cable is merely for kick down - although this also holds the
car to maximum speed in each gear. It should be set to just operate
the kickdown valve without straining anything. But make sure the rest
of the throttle mechanism is in good condition with no play and
correctly adjusted before altering anything.
The cable has 2 functions on this model of box, firstly it is attached
to a cam in the box that acts via a plunger and a spring on a
multi-spool valve, this valve controls the shift points of the box and
is opposed by "governor" pressure.
|
Right. I thought it was controlled by engine vacuum, which is a *far*
better way of doing it. Thought only the nasty BW 35 used a cable to do
everything.
--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Mr Fix It
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
Thanks for the good explanation ... i've always known the
kickdown cable did more than kick down!!
I've experimented with mine ... if its set slightly loose the
gearchanges at "normal" throttle (engine speed around 1800rpm)
are really smooth ... the only change you can feel is the forth
lockup dropping in.
Whereas if i tighten 5mm more than the recommended setting,
the car drives like my mates nissan 200sx ... it won't change up
until engine revs exceed 2500rpm!! (Sports mode??)
I've been considering fitting a device on the kickdown cable
which will tighten it by 5mm at the press of a switch, to give the
autobox a "sports" mode.
(Actually i'd be altering the position of the cable sheath end
rather than the length of the cable).
Is it bad on these boxes to have the kickdown cable set looser
than it should be??
--
Regards....
Steve
"Badger" <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote in message
news:cnivfm$942$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
| Quote: |
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d0fd96a95dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article <2vvmasF2qav23U1@uni-berlin.de>,
Mr Fix It <eveodds@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Check the control cable from throttle butterfly to gearbox is set
correctly ... if its too tight first gear will change up sooner than it
should ... and second gear will be the opposite (mine did when i
played with the adjustment).
IIRC, the cable is merely for kick down - although this also holds the
car
to maximum speed in each gear. It should be set to just operate the
kickdown valve without straining anything. But make sure the rest of the
throttle mechanism is in good condition with no play and correctly
adjusted before altering anything.
The cable has 2 functions on this model of box, firstly it is attached to
a
cam in the box that acts via a plunger and a spring on a multi-spool
valve,
this valve controls the shift points of the box and is opposed by
"governor"
pressure. (A hydraulic pressure that is governed ccording to roadspeed, by
a
centrifugal relief valve on the gearbox output shaft within the
tail-housing. A common failure on the ZF4 is the governor weights
seizing.)
At low throttle openings the valve moves across against the spring at
lower
governor pressure values, causing upshifts at lower roadspeeds. As the
throttle is opened, the cam increases the spring force opposing the
governor
pressure, causing the upshifts to occur at higher roadspeeds.
The second function is a larger detent at the end of the cam, this detent
physically overcomes the hydraulic pressure in top gear and manually
downshifts to 3rd. If the box is in 3rd, the extra spring pressure is
sufficient to cause a 3-2 downshift. A downshift that would otherwise
overspeed the engine cannot happen due to safety interlock valves in the
system, by equating pump output pressure to engine rpm.
Badger.
|
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Badger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:25 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
"Mr Fix It" <eveodds@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:304gppF2sr0mmU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Thanks for the good explanation ... i've always known the
kickdown cable did more than kick down!!
I've experimented with mine ... if its set slightly loose the
gearchanges at "normal" throttle (engine speed around 1800rpm)
are really smooth ... the only change you can feel is the forth
lockup dropping in.
Whereas if i tighten 5mm more than the recommended setting,
the car drives like my mates nissan 200sx ... it won't change up
until engine revs exceed 2500rpm!! (Sports mode??)
I've been considering fitting a device on the kickdown cable
which will tighten it by 5mm at the press of a switch, to give the
autobox a "sports" mode.
(Actually i'd be altering the position of the cable sheath end
rather than the length of the cable).
Is it bad on these boxes to have the kickdown cable set looser
than it should be??
--
As long as you don't have it so loose that it's trying to upshift at say |
1200rpm, you can set it as you wish. If the upshift rpm is too low, you can
overheat the oil in the torque convertor and set up some weird blade
resonances as well, neither good for the life of the box. if you set it too
tight, you'll know as the shifts will become "hard" over a certain rpm. I
once knew a box rebuilder who liked hard upshifts, his theory being that the
plates were slipping for less time and so weren't wearing as much. I
personally doubt his theory, certainly in a wet multiplate clutch pack, as
too rapid a shift can overstress clutch baskets and shafts etc.
Play around with it, see what you like. The idea of a selectable
"soft/sport" setting based on a simple cable adjustment appeals to me.
Badger. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:01 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
In article <cnke6g$13p$1@titan.btinternet.com>,
Badger <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote:
| Quote: | As long as you don't have it so loose that it's trying to upshift at say
1200rpm, you can set it as you wish. If the upshift rpm is too low, you
can overheat the oil in the torque convertor and set up some weird
blade resonances as well, neither good for the life of the box. if you
set it too tight, you'll know as the shifts will become "hard" over a
certain rpm. I once knew a box rebuilder who liked hard upshifts, his
theory being that the plates were slipping for less time and so weren't
wearing as much. I personally doubt his theory, certainly in a wet
multiplate clutch pack, as too rapid a shift can overstress clutch
baskets and shafts etc. Play around with it, see what you like. The idea
of a selectable "soft/sport" setting based on a simple cable adjustment
appeals to me.
|
Assuming it works on the same principle as the BW 35 which I'm pretty
familiar with, setting the change speeds too low is definitely a bad thing.
You're allowing the box to change up under higher torque conditions - ie
the throttle further open - with the line pressure set for a smooth change
at the correct torque. So there will be more slip.
So if you were to err from the ideal, your box rebuilder is correct - high
pressure results in a rough change, but no - or at least far less - wear.
--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Badger
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d103a2d15dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <cnke6g$13p$1@titan.btinternet.com>,
Snip
Assuming it works on the same principle as the BW 35 which I'm pretty
familiar with, setting the change speeds too low is definitely a bad
thing.
|
Yep, but lets face it Dave, the BW35 is a pretty bad thing itself,
especially the 35TA front wheel drive version of it! The only worse box I
know of is the Ford A4LD as fitted to Sierra/Granada Mk3?Scorpio, a
thoroughly awful box that is about as reliable as a mini's distributor in a
swimming pool!
I will however acknowledge the step forward in technology from the BW Models
6 and 12, and the BW65/66 are actually pretty good gearboxes.
| Quote: | You're allowing the box to change up under higher torque conditions - ie
the throttle further open - with the line pressure set for a smooth change
at the correct torque. So there will be more slip.
|
Exactly. It isn't the slip itself thats bad, although an increase in slip
will cause the oil temp to rise. Most (but granted, not all) boxes can
handle the extra torque if they have been correctly matched to the engine in
terms of power and torque handling capabilities, it's the vibrations that
can be set up inside the torque convertor that can do the most damage.
| Quote: | So if you were to err from the ideal, your box rebuilder is correct - high
pressure results in a rough change, but no - or at least far less - wear.
|
Indeed, but with higher shock loadings on the gearbox internals. Landrover
handbook for the rangerover 3.5/3.9 with the box in question advocates the
use of 3 rather than D when towing, this is to reduce the torsional
vibration through the box when the convertor clutch is locked above a
certain roadspeed in D. That suggests to me that the box is on its limit
torque-wise in that application. Any such warnings in any of the BMW
handbooks that you know of?
The jury is out on the wear aspect as well, there may be slip for a shorter
time interval but the applied pressure to reduce the slip is greater
therefore plate wear is increased.
If I can try and equate this to a normal clutch, the boy racer's agressive
clutch technique probably causes just as much wear as the granny's light
throttle and plenty of slip. Somewhere in the middle of this rpm/throttle
position/load/pressure equation is the ideal change characteristic which may
or may not be what the end user accepts for him/herself.
Badger. |
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Mr Fix It
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Interesting mod for ZF4HP22 auto box in 525e/528e |
|
|
I've just worked out a method of altering the cable shroud
position (thus altering the "pull" of the inner cable).
I'll have to make up a small bracket to attach to existing bolts
on the throttle body ... also i'll be using two small solenoids, one
either side of the cable so the pull is balanced.
The actual method of attaching the pullers to the cable shroud
will just be a small circular clamp, which will nip the inner metal
shroud through its pvc protection.
Then when the solenoids are powered the cable sheath will be
pulled back slightly from its normal resting socket.
Only temporary though ... when i fit the new engine, i'll be
converting to manual!!
(I'll show them diesels what instant torque without turbo lag is!!)
--
Regards....
Steve
"Badger" <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote in message
news:cnl6qs$25b$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
| Quote: |
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d103a2d15dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article <cnke6g$13p$1@titan.btinternet.com>,
Snip
Assuming it works on the same principle as the BW 35 which I'm pretty
familiar with, setting the change speeds too low is definitely a bad
thing.
Yep, but lets face it Dave, the BW35 is a pretty bad thing itself,
especially the 35TA front wheel drive version of it! The only worse box I
know of is the Ford A4LD as fitted to Sierra/Granada Mk3?Scorpio, a
thoroughly awful box that is about as reliable as a mini's distributor in
a
swimming pool!
I will however acknowledge the step forward in technology from the BW
Models
6 and 12, and the BW65/66 are actually pretty good gearboxes.
You're allowing the box to change up under higher torque conditions - ie
the throttle further open - with the line pressure set for a smooth
change
at the correct torque. So there will be more slip.
Exactly. It isn't the slip itself thats bad, although an increase in slip
will cause the oil temp to rise. Most (but granted, not all) boxes can
handle the extra torque if they have been correctly matched to the engine
in
terms of power and torque handling capabilities, it's the vibrations that
can be set up inside the torque convertor that can do the most damage.
So if you were to err from the ideal, your box rebuilder is correct -
high
pressure results in a rough change, but no - or at least far less -
wear.
Indeed, but with higher shock loadings on the gearbox internals. Landrover
handbook for the rangerover 3.5/3.9 with the box in question advocates the
use of 3 rather than D when towing, this is to reduce the torsional
vibration through the box when the convertor clutch is locked above a
certain roadspeed in D. That suggests to me that the box is on its limit
torque-wise in that application. Any such warnings in any of the BMW
handbooks that you know of?
The jury is out on the wear aspect as well, there may be slip for a
shorter
time interval but the applied pressure to reduce the slip is greater
therefore plate wear is increased.
If I can try and equate this to a normal clutch, the boy racer's agressive
clutch technique probably causes just as much wear as the granny's light
throttle and plenty of slip. Somewhere in the middle of this rpm/throttle
position/load/pressure equation is the ideal change characteristic which
may
or may not be what the end user accepts for him/herself.
Badger.
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