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[R]

I am getting annoyed at people's comments about some of the newer cars. I
have occasionally come to this site and try to offer advice. If someone has
a problem, I am glad to try to help. But comments about new cars are
baffling to me. Like saying a new car should have a FUNCTIONING hood scoop.
Why? They make more power than almost any 60's car that had to have a
functioning scoop to gain power without one. Remember, the horsepower rating
was changed in 1972 to show net horsepower not gross horsepower. That means
that a car in 1970 that had 390 horse would equal about 315 in todays
ratings. Don't believe it? Check the quarter mile times. They will bear it
out using the power to weight ratio. I am 45 years old and when I first got
my license, it was in 1975. The cars we had were from the 60's since we did
not have the money for new ones. I thought that era was the best. When I
turned 21 and started going to bars, I listened to the older guys say that
the 50's cars were the best. I decided that I will not stick to an era based
on my age but judge cars based on the way they are. Back in the 60's you had
12000 mile plugs, 6000 mile point adjustments with a 12000 mile
replacement,12000 mile fuel filter and so on. As the points wore, the cars
performance changed. Now they run solid their whole life. They used to have
bias ply tires that were not speed rated and dangerous at high speed. No air
bags, no anti lock brakes, worse gas mileage,4 wheel drum brakes on a 4200
pound car with much more brake fade. No crumple zones in the sheet metal, no
shoulder harness, junk radios from the factory, no factory alarms, thin sway
bars on heavy cars, 40 amp alternators(remember sitting at idle and watching
the amp gauge go to d(discharge)?) Just check these performance times and
you will see that the 60's and 70's cars can't touch today. And now they are
adding even more power. Before you say, yeah but look at the prices, They
say that 5000 dollars in 1966 is equal to 45000 today. The top performance
cars then were 4200-6000 then. No difference. Don't mean to open a can of
worms but I want to give credit where credit is due.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

Check the chart and you will see that you stiil go very fast but you ride in
more comfort and luxury(no vinyl seats or vinyl floors with no a/c and vent
windows) and much more safety all on unleaded gas with better milege in a
car that you can take on a trip because it doesn't have a 4.11 rear end
without overdrive and a lockup converter. My 2 cents

[Bob D.]

Well said! I am older than even you.. Ha! I'm 67 years old and the cars I
remember
were 1935 Plymouth, 1937 Chevrolet, 1940 Chevrolet 1950 Mercury
then I found Studebakers! Ah, the love of my life a 1954 Studebaker
Commander
Hardtop it was 20 years ahead of itself in styling and some engineering
features, like
a hill-holder, overdrive and underseat heaters.

I love to look at the old cars but I don't want any of them back, it is
"OLD"
technology.. Every thing you said about short life spark plugs,
carburetors,
and dist caps and rotors.. ugh! FULL tune-ups every 5000 miles if you
wanted to keep it running in tip top shape.

Gas mileage of 15- 18 on the road was really GOOD.

Bob...

"R" <Bob34@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vnykd.7415$_J2.5506@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

[GMdude]

R,

I know where you are coming from, I'm an auto mechanic. But,.... In 1966
your average Joe didn't pay $5000 for an ordinary sedan. In 1967 you could
have purchased a Lotus Europa sports car, that would do over 110 mph for
about $4000. I have a 1967 magazine in front of me, that advertises this.
This would be a car that would have been out-of-reach, for a middle class
worker in '67.

I have been living since 1966, and in 1975 my sister purchased a Buick
Skyhawk V-6 for $4100. That's 9 years after 1966. At the time, it was a new
model, and cost more because of this.

Most average people can't repair today's problems in vehihicles. In 1966
it was easy,... points, plugs, filters. A person could tinker. With today's
vehicles, it's almost always a trip to the shop.

The more electronics and technology added to a vehicle, the higher the
price, and this price (cost of the vehicle, and service), has exponentially
exceeded the "cost of living" increases, that a middle class worker earns
today.

Much of it is due to EPA regulations, and fuel shortage. You wouldn't
see fuel injection, catalytic converters, etc.. on standard vehicles today,
if we were not worried about pollution, and fuel economy. Fuel injection
would most likely have been put on sports cars and such. There also would
have been no need for an powertrain computer, if you could still used a
carburetor.

Once again, I'm a mechanic. I don't like to hear the complaints, but I
do believe that they are justified, in some ways. Vehicles today will
start-up at 10 deg below zero. They also handle better, and get better fuel
economy. But the more electronics,wiring & connectors, power equipment, you
add to a vehicle, the more chance of a failure. Constant temperature changes
and vibration, are something that auto engineers have to deal with, along
with the bean counters that want to reduce the price, at the same time.

It's not so surprising.

GMdude

[Ray]

R wrote:

[GMdude]

Ray,

You gotta love the '72 Nova. Great car.

When I get my 3 car garage, one day, it will have a Nova in it ('69-72).
Whatever I can find in good, "close-to-stock" shape. I had a '77 in high
school, but my love rests in the earlier years.

GMdude

[Dennis Smith]

In article <vnykd.7415$_J2.5506@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Bob34@aol.com says...

[Full_Name]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:29:15 GMT, "R" <Bob34@aol.com> wrote:

[Repairman]

"Ray" <ray@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8dAkd.182887$%k.52551@pd7tw2no...

[Chuck]

You are absolutely right.

Cars in general are far superior today in so many ways. Comfort, safety,
drivability, longevity and even price.
My main complaint and why I'll never own a GM again ( I have owned only GMs
and now Toyota) is GM's lack of quality in the simplest things. Alternator
bearings, fuel pumps and fuel gauge senders, hinge pins on the full sized
pickups and Suburbans, engine gaskets that don't seal properly. The list is
really long.
Look through this newsgroup and others like alt.trucks.chevy and
alt.autos.4x4.chevy.trucks.
Checkout the kind of problems others are having with their GMs.
Allot of these people are having real issues with basic lack of quality.
Notice too that a large number of these posters are having trouble with late
model GMs. I am calling 5-6 year old cars and trucks late model.
In my opinion most of these problems should have been avoided with proper
engineering and quality control.
Just for fun you might want to look through the Toyota based newsgroups. I
think you will find fewer serious flaws and quality issues.

You drive what ever makes you happy.
I know I will.

Chuck in Phoenix


"R" <Bob34@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vnykd.7415$_J2.5506@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

[Guest]

I obtained my drives license in 1943 and my first new car
in 1947. Anyone that thinks cars were 'better' in the past is
looking back with rose colored glasses in my opinion. I am a
collector and own a '41, 64, 71, 72, and 83 automobiles, top of
the line models or luxury brands. They are all in mint or near
mint condition. All one needs to do is drive one of them and the
it soon become apparent as to which are better cars.

In those days the warranty was as low as 1,000 miles of 30 days.
Today warranties are up as high as 100K or ten years. Today one
can buy a vehicles that will start every time with a short spin
of the starter and will run to 100K, problem free, with only
minor preventive maintenance. Back then we had to change the oil
every 1,000 miles, installed plugs and point every 10K and
replaced the tires shock and brake lining before 20K and the
rings by 70K. ;)


mike hunt



R wrote:

[Ray]

GMdude wrote:

[Ray]

Repairman wrote:

[Guest]

Perhaps, but one can't compare the vehicles they owned even five
years ago to what is available on the market today. From what we
see in our business there is little difference of the overall
quality among today's vehicles. The only real difference we see
in the thousands of vehicle we service is style and price. Don't
forget it will cost you twenty to thirty percent MORE to drive
home a similar sized and equipped Toyota as well.


mike hunt




Chuck wrote:

[Guest]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:29:15 GMT, "R" <Bob34@aol.com> wrote:

[Isaiah Beard]

R wrote:
Before you say, yeah but look at the prices, They