| Author |
Message |
Ed
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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Our '95 Park Ave Ultra has been exhibiting symptoms that I've been told here
could be due to the torque converter clutch. When driving at steady speed,
e.g., 60 to 70 on the freeway, there is a short hesitation, sort of like
something
is slipping in the drive train. This has been happening over the last couple
months,
with increasing frequency. I've had it to a transmission shop and my normal
service
shop, but it would not do it for them when they test drove the car. Not too
surprising
since it tends to happen only after driving for 20-30 minutes.
Then today I noticed another similar smyptom, but
while at a stop light, in drive with foot on the brake. Sort of like
something slipped
that caused the engine to loose speed. I watched it on the tach. It would be
idling
at about 1000 RPM (AC was on), then it would drop down to perhaps 850 for
a moment and then return to 1000. I suppose this could be attributed to the
AC clutch
kicking the compressor in and out, but I've driven this car nearly 10 years
and
never noticed it before. And it had an erie similarity that reminded me of
the
shuddering at road speeds, perhaps in the timing of the event.
So one question is are these two symptoms related? Someone here suggested
the
shudder might not be the TCC at all, but rather the engine having an
intermittant
missing problem.
The other question is how to narrow down the diagnosis. I'd sure hate to pay
for
a transmission/TCC overhaul or what ever (which sounds expensive) only to
have
the problem still with me.
TIA
Ed
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« Paul »
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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Ed wrote:
| Quote: |
Our '95 Park Ave Ultra has been exhibiting symptoms that I've been told here
could be due to the torque converter clutch. When driving at steady speed,
e.g., 60 to 70 on the freeway, there is a short hesitation, sort of like
something
is slipping in the drive train. This has been happening over the last couple
months,
with increasing frequency. I've had it to a transmission shop and my normal
service
shop, but it would not do it for them when they test drove the car. Not too
surprising
since it tends to happen only after driving for 20-30 minutes.
Then today I noticed another similar smyptom, but
while at a stop light, in drive with foot on the brake. Sort of like
something slipped
that caused the engine to loose speed. I watched it on the tach. It would be
idling
at about 1000 RPM (AC was on), then it would drop down to perhaps 850 for
a moment and then return to 1000. I suppose this could be attributed to the
AC clutch
kicking the compressor in and out, but I've driven this car nearly 10 years
and
never noticed it before. And it had an erie similarity that reminded me of
the
shuddering at road speeds, perhaps in the timing of the event.
So one question is are these two symptoms related? Someone here suggested
the
shudder might not be the TCC at all, but rather the engine having an
intermittant
missing problem.
The other question is how to narrow down the diagnosis. I'd sure hate to pay
for
a transmission/TCC overhaul or what ever (which sounds expensive) only to
have
the problem still with me.
TIA
Ed
|
Bad plug wires. |
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Shep
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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Tcc slippage or shudder can be determined using a full trans capable scanner
looking at tcc engagement and slipppage percentage parameters, of course
someone has to do this when the condition occurs.
"Ed" <jag_manR__EM*-0_V_E653@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZJW9f.8819$7h7.6277@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
Our '95 Park Ave Ultra has been exhibiting symptoms that I've been told
here
could be due to the torque converter clutch. When driving at steady speed,
e.g., 60 to 70 on the freeway, there is a short hesitation, sort of like
something
is slipping in the drive train. This has been happening over the last
couple months,
with increasing frequency. I've had it to a transmission shop and my
normal service
shop, but it would not do it for them when they test drove the car. Not
too surprising
since it tends to happen only after driving for 20-30 minutes.
Then today I noticed another similar smyptom, but
while at a stop light, in drive with foot on the brake. Sort of like
something slipped
that caused the engine to loose speed. I watched it on the tach. It would
be idling
at about 1000 RPM (AC was on), then it would drop down to perhaps 850 for
a moment and then return to 1000. I suppose this could be attributed to
the AC clutch
kicking the compressor in and out, but I've driven this car nearly 10
years and
never noticed it before. And it had an erie similarity that reminded me of
the
shuddering at road speeds, perhaps in the timing of the event.
So one question is are these two symptoms related? Someone here suggested
the
shudder might not be the TCC at all, but rather the engine having an
intermittant
missing problem.
The other question is how to narrow down the diagnosis. I'd sure hate to
pay for
a transmission/TCC overhaul or what ever (which sounds expensive) only to
have
the problem still with me.
TIA
Ed
|
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:43 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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"« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
=?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:43684105.B2ECA88@houston.rr.com...
Thanks, Paul. Sure is an easy and cheap thing to try, and given their age it
should be done anyway.
Ed |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:44 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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Thanks, Shep. Guess I'll have to ask the guy at the tranny shop to
drive the car for a few days.
Ed
"Shep" <djsljsrn@capital.net> wrote in message
news:1130941883_5@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
| Quote: |
Tcc slippage or shudder can be determined using a full trans capable
scanner looking at tcc engagement and slipppage percentage parameters, of
course someone has to do this when the condition occurs.
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sdlomi2
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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"Ed" <jag_manR__EM*-0_V_E653@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aN7af.8888$q%.6816@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
"« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
=?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:43684105.B2ECA88@houston.rr.com...
Bad plug wires.
Thanks, Paul. Sure is an easy and cheap thing to try, and given their age
it
should be done anyway.
Ed
When you get new wires, be sure & get a good quality. We've seen many |
lesser brands perform as poorly as the old ones. s |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:12 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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"sdlomi2" <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Kx8af.35383$E17.17402@fe03.lga...
| Quote: |
When you get new wires, be sure & get a good quality. We've seen many
lesser brands perform as poorly as the old ones. s
|
Thanks. Any particular brands I should ask for, or just the highest priced
ones?
Ed |
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James Goforth
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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I was wondering if the scanner for this year of car would store
transmission codes, i.e. gear ratio error, meaning the output speed
doesn't correspond correctly with the input (engine) speed for example,
or perhaps some more specific code which would point to TC malfunction.
If that's the case, the car wouldn't have to exhibit the condition at
the time the scanner is connected to it; they could just hook it up
initially and look at any hard or soft codes, then clear them and check
it in a couple days and see which one re-appears.
My Chrysler 604 was diagnosed that way, and it was an '89. Surely you
can do the same thing with this '95.
As for which plugwires to get (since you say it's due for them anyway)
I'd just get the factory original Delcos. At our shop we'd always
replace Delco stuff with Delco, since we didn't want the vehicle coming
back because the part failed, in which case we'd have to eat the labor. |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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"James Goforth" <jamiegoforth@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16842-436E23C6-838@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | I was wondering if the scanner for this year of car would store
transmission codes, i.e. gear ratio error, meaning the output speed
doesn't correspond correctly with the input (engine) speed for
example,
or perhaps some more specific code which would point to TC
malfunction.
If that's the case, the car wouldn't have to exhibit the condition
at
the time the scanner is connected to it; they could just hook it up
initially and look at any hard or soft codes, then clear them and
check
it in a couple days and see which one re-appears.
My Chrysler 604 was diagnosed that way, and it was an '89. Surely
you
can do the same thing with this '95.
As for which plugwires to get (since you say it's due for them
anyway)
I'd just get the factory original Delcos. At our shop we'd always
replace Delco stuff with Delco, since we didn't want the vehicle
coming
back because the part failed, in which case we'd have to eat the
labor.
|
James,
Just to bring everyone up to date, I did replace the plugs with AC
Delcos and the wires
with the best brand product avaliable at my trusted Parts Plus
store... a Federal Mogul
brand which I don't remember, for about $40. It ran OK for a while,
then after a week or so
the engine started missing really bad, and the herky-jerky thing was
happening nearly all the time.
Before that happened I had made an appointment with the tranny shop,
thinking the
TCC was at fault because the "brake tap" test stops it. But when it
started missing I figured
I'd best take it back to my normal garage since maybe they had put a
bad air mass sensor
on it. Guess what? They tracked the missing down to a failed spark
plug... one of
theose brand new AC Delcos had apparently failed. I could hardly
believe it, but they
said they did a compression check and checked all the plugs and #1 was
not firing
all the time. Now, the engine runs smoothly and, get this, no more
herky-jerky!
So, the question now is what cause that plug to fail, and will it fail
again and the herky-jerky
come back too? I'm betting it will....
Ed |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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"Ed" <jag_manR__EM*-0_V_E653@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:KW7lf.31945
| Quote: |
So, the question now is what cause that plug to fail, and will it fail
again and the herky-jerky
come back too? I'm betting it will....
Ed
|
Was the plug fouled? If you have heavy fouling, it may well happen again.
If the plug was just internally bad, it may not happen again. I dont
believe
I have ever seen a plug bad out of the box, but Im sure it happens. |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Torque Converter Clutch shudder? |
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<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:%Tflf.23587$BZ5.8864@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
Was the plug fouled? If you have heavy fouling, it may well happen
again.
If the plug was just internally bad, it may not happen again. I
dont
believe
I have ever seen a plug bad out of the box, but Im sure it happens.
|
Yes, it was fouled. However, I can't tell if it is fouled because it
had not been firing,
or if stopped firing due to becoming fouled... chicken and egg thing I
guess.
I picture spark plugs an just a center conductor, i.e., an extension
of the electrode. If
so, it's had to see how it could abruptly stop conducting. OTOH, if it
is more complex,
e.g., a resistor or something in there, perhaps it could fail.
BTW, the car did run fine right after installing the new plugs and
wires. It was after a
week or so of driving that it began to miss.
thanks.
Ed |
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