| Author |
Message |
Chuck Olson
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to turn on
the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view mirror, and
switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then forget to turn the
lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I wouldn't expect this to
produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery, but it now reads about 8 volts
open circuit, and connecting a small 12 volt 4 amp battery charger produces
a high current (pins the ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during
charge rises to about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the Nippon
Denchi S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may have one
in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for one to come
from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells a fairly unusual
consequence of draining the battery to a low terminal voltage? I hope I
learned something here.
Chuck
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FanJet
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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Chuck Olson wrote:
| Quote: | There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to
turn on the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view
mirror, and switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then
forget to turn the lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I
wouldn't expect this to produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery,
but it now reads about 8 volts open circuit, and connecting a small
12 volt 4 amp battery charger produces a high current (pins the
ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during charge rises to
about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the Nippon Denchi
S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may
have one in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for
one to come from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells
a fairly unusual consequence of draining the battery to a low
terminal voltage? I hope I learned something here.
|
Looks like you're reached the right conclusion. Gentle/normal discharges
don't produce shorted cells. The battery was probably initially defective
and somebody's making some $$$ at 179 a copy. Any gold on the terminals.? |
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Brent Secombe
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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In article <Pbednc9NEbblyRDeRVn-oQ@comcast.com>, Chuck Olson
<chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to turn on
the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view mirror, and
switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then forget to turn the
lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I wouldn't expect this to
produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery, but it now reads about 8 volts
open circuit, and connecting a small 12 volt 4 amp battery charger produces
a high current (pins the ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during
charge rises to about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the Nippon
Denchi S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may have one
in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for one to come
from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells a fairly unusual
consequence of draining the battery to a low terminal voltage? I hope I
learned something here.
Others here will have more insight from Toyota's perspective, but to me |
as an owner this sounds like a warranty issue. If your dealer balks,
follow the chain upward. You might have to buy the replacement to get
back on the road, but eventually there should be a reimbursement.
The matter of fault is blurred. I worked for GM years ago, and we
designed in expectation of owners' imperfect behavior. I suspect that
at any given moment there are many cars worldwide with their lights
unintentionally on.
Good luck,
Brent
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Ray O
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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"Chuck Olson" <chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Pbednc9NEbblyRDeRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
| Quote: | There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to turn on
the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view mirror, and
switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then forget to turn
the
lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I wouldn't expect this to
produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery, but it now reads about 8
volts
open circuit, and connecting a small 12 volt 4 amp battery charger
produces
a high current (pins the ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during
charge rises to about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the
Nippon
Denchi S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a
cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may have one
in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for one to come
from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells a fairly unusual
consequence of draining the battery to a low terminal voltage? I hope I
learned something here.
Chuck
Leaving lights on will not produce a shorted circuit in the 12 volt battery. |
Leaving the battery in a discharged state will sulfate the battery, reducing
its ability to hold a charge. 3 days does seem a little quick to ruin the
battery, and hopefully, the dealership will cover it under warranty for you.
good luck!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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Bruce L. Bergman
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:27:19 -0800, "Chuck Olson"
<chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to turn on
the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view mirror, and
switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then forget to turn the
lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I wouldn't expect this to
produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery, but it now reads about 8 volts
open circuit, and connecting a small 12 volt 4 amp battery charger produces
a high current (pins the ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during
charge rises to about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the Nippon
Denchi S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may have one
in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for one to come
from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells a fairly unusual
consequence of draining the battery to a low terminal voltage? I hope I
learned something here.
|
Someone's getting hosed at that price - but you knew that... ;-)
That accessory battery shouldn't have gone bad on the first deep
discharge, you should be able to get away with that mistake a few
times at least. That said, they should warranty it at least once.
Once you are out of warranty, FWIH you can just put a regular car
battery in there - judging from the last half of that "S26B24" part
number, previous discussions in the newsgroup, and Interstate's
website where a search on Prius popped the Group 24 page up, it's a
standard BCA Group 24 wet cell. And no three week wait, the worst you
have is overnight for the local delivery truck if they don't have the
exact size you need on the shelf.
That 12V battery is there to boot up the computer, run the radio and
accessories, the dome lights, and the emergency flashers in case of a
breakdown - the high voltage NIMH battery pack does the actual engine
starting duties.
The ONLY difference might be in the battery charging circuit
voltage, and that only requires matching the battery chemistry type
and the same amp-hour size range. Doesn't require a PhD to get right.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
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Chuck Olson
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:40 am Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:ifjro1t2s837blreerlsasdphfbf8jjnpt@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:27:19 -0800, "Chuck Olson"
Someone's getting hosed at that price - but you knew that... ;-)
That accessory battery shouldn't have gone bad on the first deep
discharge, you should be able to get away with that mistake a few
times at least. That said, they should warranty it at least once.
Once you are out of warranty, FWIH you can just put a regular car
battery in there - judging from the last half of that "S26B24" part
number, previous discussions in the newsgroup, and Interstate's
website where a search on Prius popped the Group 24 page up, it's a
standard BCA Group 24 wet cell. And no three week wait, the worst you
have is overnight for the local delivery truck if they don't have the
exact size you need on the shelf.
That 12V battery is there to boot up the computer, run the radio and
accessories, the dome lights, and the emergency flashers in case of a
breakdown - the high voltage NIMH battery pack does the actual engine
starting duties.
The ONLY difference might be in the battery charging circuit
voltage, and that only requires matching the battery chemistry type
and the same amp-hour size range. Doesn't require a PhD to get right.
--<< Bruce >>--
Thanks, FanJet, Brent, Ray and Bruce - - The new battery is in and working |
perfectly. Stevens Creek Toyota was the only dealership in Silicon Valley
that had the battery and they stocked one of each (one 28800-21180 Nippon
Denchi S35B20L for 2001 - 2003 Prius, and one 28800-21170 Nippon Denchi
S46B24R for 2004-2006 Prius). The price was $152.57 plus tax or $165.16, and
I had to go back to retrieve the small fitting, that attaches to a rubber
gas vent tube, from the battery I turned in. To do the entire job, all you
need are 10mm and 12mm, 3/8-drive sockets on a long extension bar, 3/8
ratchet handle, and a 10mm end wrench, taking care to remove the ground wire
first and reattach it last. The computer system took a little time to come
to its senses, but after a short time at Ig-On, exercising the driver's
window until its automatic mode worked correctly, and opening and closing
the rear hatch a couple of times, it remembered how much gas is left in the
tank, and allowed me to re-program the radio stations. Since my car was
purchased as a salvage vehicle, there was no warranty possible on the
battery, but the new battery is warranted for 1 year, so that's not too bad.
Chuck |
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Supraman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:25 am Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:36:13 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:27:19 -0800, "Chuck Olson"
chuckolson01@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
There may be other ways to do the job, but the way I did it was to turn on
the two map lights in the overhead area above the rear view mirror, and
switch the center light to "on" rather than "door". Then forget to turn the
lights off and go away for 3 days. Now normally I wouldn't expect this to
produce shorted cells in the 12 volt battery, but it now reads about 8 volts
open circuit, and connecting a small 12 volt 4 amp battery charger produces
a high current (pins the ammeter needle), and the terminal voltage during
charge rises to about 10 volts but no further. I have to conclude the Nippon
Denchi S46B24 battery has two shorted cells, and must be replaced, at a cost
of about $179 from what I could determine. If I'm lucky, they may have one
in stock, but I read where one owner had to wait 3 weeks for one to come
from Japan. I know I screwed up, but aren't shorted cells a fairly unusual
consequence of draining the battery to a low terminal voltage? I hope I
learned something here.
Someone's getting hosed at that price - but you knew that... ;-)
That accessory battery shouldn't have gone bad on the first deep
discharge, you should be able to get away with that mistake a few
times at least. That said, they should warranty it at least once.
Once you are out of warranty, FWIH you can just put a regular car
battery in there - judging from the last half of that "S26B24" part
number, previous discussions in the newsgroup, and Interstate's
website where a search on Prius popped the Group 24 page up, it's a
standard BCA Group 24 wet cell. And no three week wait, the worst you
have is overnight for the local delivery truck if they don't have the
exact size you need on the shelf.
That 12V battery is there to boot up the computer, run the radio and
accessories, the dome lights, and the emergency flashers in case of a
breakdown - the high voltage NIMH battery pack does the actual engine
starting duties.
|
I dunno...this wasn't so on the Prius 'Classic'. When the wet cell went
dead, you were done. Have your AAA paid up!
| Quote: |
The ONLY difference might be in the battery charging circuit
voltage, and that only requires matching the battery chemistry type
and the same amp-hour size range. Doesn't require a PhD to get right.
--<< Bruce >>-- |
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Andrew Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: How to ruin 05 Prius 12v battery |
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In article <pan.2005.12.01.00.27.12.647643@yahooDOT.calm>
MarkIII@yahooDOT.calm "Supraman" writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:36:13 +0000, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
That 12V battery is there to boot up the computer, run the radio and
accessories, the dome lights, and the emergency flashers in case of a
breakdown - the high voltage NIMH battery pack does the actual engine
starting duties.
I dunno...this wasn't so on the Prius 'Classic'. When the wet
cell went dead, you were done. Have your AAA paid up!
|
I'm pretty sure Bruce is right, going by recollections of the
manual (rather long, rather repetitious, rather dull, yet quite
informative).
The manual describes a process to use if the secondary battery
dies, which involves opening the bonnet (US:hood) and connecting
jump leads to terminals in the engine compartment. You need to
do this because the boot (US:trunk) lid is unlocked electrically,
by the secondary battery which lurks in there. This sounds like
another of those changes made during the inter-model revamp.
--
Andrew Stephenson |
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