| Author |
Message |
HachiRoku
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:42 am Post subject:
Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up to
about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering. But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on the
temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a little bit
before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and stays there.
Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a 1991
truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing the old
engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as opposed to hard
starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into the
intake!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Charles Fregeau
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
| Quote: | 1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up to
about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering. But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on the
temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a little bit
before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and stays there.
Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a 1991
truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing the old
engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as opposed to hard
starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into the
intake!
|
My '79 Corolla (3K-C with electric fan and 'manual' choke) did that all its
life that I had it. No dealer or mechanic could fix it.
Charles of Kankakee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:58 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
| Quote: |
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up to
about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering. But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on the
temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a little bit
before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and stays there.
Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a 1991
truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing the old
engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as opposed to hard
starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into the
intake!
My '79 Corolla (3K-C with electric fan and 'manual' choke) did that all its
life that I had it. No dealer or mechanic could fix it.
Charles of Kankakee
|
Hmmm...it's just odd that two engines do the same thing. I don't know if
the cooling system was 'flushed', but I know the system was drained and
refilled...all the coolant is nice and clean. Perhaps I should drain and
fill again.
But that still doesn't answer why only with the heat on. Small blockage in
the heater core?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PCK
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
Roger has gone over this before many have this symptom
fix is a small hole drilled in thermostat
HachiRoku wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats
up to about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering.
But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on
the temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a
little bit before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal
and stays there. Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to
the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a
1991 truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing
the old engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as
opposed to hard starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into
the intake!
My '79 Corolla (3K-C with electric fan and 'manual' choke) did that
all its life that I had it. No dealer or mechanic could fix it.
Charles of Kankakee
Hmmm...it's just odd that two engines do the same thing. I don't know
if the cooling system was 'flushed', but I know the system was
drained and refilled...all the coolant is nice and clean. Perhaps I
should drain and fill again.
But that still doesn't answer why only with the heat on. Small
blockage in the heater core? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gord Beaman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up to
about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering. But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on the
temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a little bit
before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and stays there.
Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a 1991
truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing the old
engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as opposed to hard
starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into the
intake!
My '79 Corolla (3K-C with electric fan and 'manual' choke) did that all its
life that I had it. No dealer or mechanic could fix it.
Charles of Kankakee
Hmmm...it's just odd that two engines do the same thing. I don't know if
the cooling system was 'flushed', but I know the system was drained and
refilled...all the coolant is nice and clean. Perhaps I should drain and
fill again.
But that still doesn't answer why only with the heat on. Small blockage in
the heater core?
|
Can't very well be that Hach, you got a honking BIG blockage in
the heater core when the heat is shut off.
--
-Gord.
(use gordon in email) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:53:49 +0000, Gord Beaman wrote:
| Quote: | HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up to
about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering. But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on the
temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a little bit
before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and stays there.
Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the heater core.
Now, before anyone says "Change the thermostat", bear this in mind:
It did it last year.
It does it this year.
I just got it back after having the engine replaced with one from a 1991
truck. The old thermostat is in the old engine...
Oh, and while we're at it, the new engine is doing a lot of thing the old
engine was; stumbling, rough idle, not starting easily (as opposed to hard
starting?). The computer has been reset, etc.
The one thing the new engine is NOT doing is blowing oil back into the
intake!
My '79 Corolla (3K-C with electric fan and 'manual' choke) did that all its
life that I had it. No dealer or mechanic could fix it.
Charles of Kankakee
Hmmm...it's just odd that two engines do the same thing. I don't know if
the cooling system was 'flushed', but I know the system was drained and
refilled...all the coolant is nice and clean. Perhaps I should drain and
fill again.
But that still doesn't answer why only with the heat on. Small blockage in
the heater core?
Can't very well be that Hach, you got a honking BIG blockage in
the heater core when the heat is shut off.
|
ROFLMAO!!! Yeah, I guess I do! I never said LOGIC was a strong point! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TeGGer®
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:rOdqd.903$_C2.180@trndny01:
| Quote: | On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up
to about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering.
But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on
the temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a
little bit before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and
stays there. Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the
heater core.
|
Two questions:
1) When the temperature gauge is showing 90%, what kind of output do you
get from the heater?
2)What happens in cooler weather when you leave the heater control valve
OFF?
I'm thinking either the gauge sender has poor electrical contact when the
weather cools off, or the fans are not coming on when the weather is cool,
for similar reasons.
In cooler weather, is the car OK idling for ten minutes, or does it begin
to overheat after that length of time?
--
TeGGeR® |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:40:25 +0000, TeGGer® wrote:
| Quote: | HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:rOdqd.903$_C2.180@trndny01:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:59:30 -0600, Charles Fregeau wrote:
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:Erbqd.816$gN3.214@trndny07...
1985 Toyota Celica GTS.
In warm weather, the cooling system works just fine. Engine heats up
to about 1/2 way up the guage and stays there, never wavering.
But...
In cooler weather, when you crank the temperature up, the needle on
the temp guage goes about 90% of the way up the guage, stops just a
little bit before it hits the red mark, and then drops to normal and
stays there. Only when the valve is opened to allow coolant to the
heater core.
Two questions:
1) When the temperature gauge is showing 90%, what kind of output do you
get from the heater?
|
It is warm, I mean what you would expect with a reading like that.
| Quote: | 2)What happens in cooler weather when you leave the heater control valve
OFF?
|
It doesn't do it. It only happens when I have the heater core valve open,
to ANY degree! Even just a crack. If I close the valve fully, the guage
creeps down to where it should be. If I don't open the valve at all, it
doesn't overheat at all.
| Quote: |
I'm thinking either the gauge sender has poor electrical contact when the
weather cools off, or the fans are not coming on when the weather is cool,
for similar reasons.
|
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the guage
IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to have been
a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the instruments, it will
usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I tap the plastic, the
guage settles to where it should be and then goes up towards hot. It ACTS
like the thermostat opening.
| Quote: |
In cooler weather, is the car OK idling for ten minutes, or does it
begin to overheat after that length of time?
|
It does if I leave the valve open. That seems to be the deciding factor as
to whether it overheats or not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TeGGer®
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:G6yqd.655$8v3.366@trndny08:
| Quote: |
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the
guage IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to
have been a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the
instruments, it will usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I
tap the plastic, the guage settles to where it should be and then goes
up towards hot. It ACTS like the thermostat opening.
|
Take the rad cap off and stick a thermometer into the rad neck. Run the car
until the gauge goes up into the red and see what the thermometer says.
I'll bet your gauge is wrong and the car isn't overheating at all.
--
TeGGeR® |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gord Beaman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
| Quote: |
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the guage
IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to have been
a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the instruments, it will
usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I tap the plastic, the
guage settles to where it should be and then goes up towards hot. It ACTS
like the thermostat opening.
In cooler weather, is the car OK idling for ten minutes, or does it
begin to overheat after that length of time?
It does if I leave the valve open. That seems to be the deciding factor as
to whether it overheats or not.
|
Sounds like when the gauge itself gets warm then it acts up
maybe?...perhaps when you run the heater some warm air is hitting
the 'gauge itself' (under the dashboard) and causing it to act
up?...
--
-Gord.
(use gordon in email) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:03:28 +0000, Gord Beaman wrote:
| Quote: | HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the guage
IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to have been
a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the instruments, it will
usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I tap the plastic, the
guage settles to where it should be and then goes up towards hot. It ACTS
like the thermostat opening.
In cooler weather, is the car OK idling for ten minutes, or does it
begin to overheat after that length of time?
It does if I leave the valve open. That seems to be the deciding factor as
to whether it overheats or not.
Sounds like when the gauge itself gets warm then it acts up
maybe?...perhaps when you run the heater some warm air is hitting
the 'gauge itself' (under the dashboard) and causing it to act
up?...
|
Could very well be, but then again, today it acted just fine! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:53:52 +0000, TeGGer® wrote:
| Quote: | HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:G6yqd.655$8v3.366@trndny08:
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the
guage IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to
have been a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the
instruments, it will usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I
tap the plastic, the guage settles to where it should be and then goes
up towards hot. It ACTS like the thermostat opening.
Take the rad cap off and stick a thermometer into the rad neck. Run the car
until the gauge goes up into the red and see what the thermometer says.
I'll bet your gauge is wrong and the car isn't overheating at all.
|
Well, today the guage behaved itself all day. Usually it 'sproings' back
and forth before settling down, but not today. Here's what I noticed:
The temperatur started to kreep up as it does. I had the valve opened
slightly, as it was pretty warm (for this time of year). Now, this is
characteristic of this 'problem'. I saw the guage settle, and then start
creeping up. I shut the valve fully. The guage stayed where it was, and
after 20 seconds krept back down to normal, where it stayed for the rest
of the drive.
Same thing at lunch. Guage gets to normal, then starts to move towards
hot. Close the valve, the guage stops, then kreeps back down.
Note: this ONLY happens at initial warm-up! Once the car is up to
operating temp, it stays at op. temp. I can start the car forever once it
gets to normal temp. Also, we moved our dealership. Where we were before,
on the way home, it would start to overheat just as I crested a decent
downhill. I would put the car into neutral and coast down the hill at 50,
and it would not overheat! Weird! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ray O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:75Sqd.2090$_C2.1447@trndny01...
| Quote: | On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:53:52 +0000, TeGGer® wrote:
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:G6yqd.655$8v3.366@trndny08:
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the
guage IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to
have been a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the
instruments, it will usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I
tap the plastic, the guage settles to where it should be and then goes
up towards hot. It ACTS like the thermostat opening.
Take the rad cap off and stick a thermometer into the rad neck. Run the
car
until the gauge goes up into the red and see what the thermometer says.
I'll bet your gauge is wrong and the car isn't overheating at all.
Well, today the guage behaved itself all day. Usually it 'sproings' back
and forth before settling down, but not today. Here's what I noticed:
The temperatur started to kreep up as it does. I had the valve opened
slightly, as it was pretty warm (for this time of year). Now, this is
characteristic of this 'problem'. I saw the guage settle, and then start
creeping up. I shut the valve fully. The guage stayed where it was, and
after 20 seconds krept back down to normal, where it stayed for the rest
of the drive.
Same thing at lunch. Guage gets to normal, then starts to move towards
hot. Close the valve, the guage stops, then kreeps back down.
Note: this ONLY happens at initial warm-up! Once the car is up to
operating temp, it stays at op. temp. I can start the car forever once it
gets to normal temp. Also, we moved our dealership. Where we were before,
on the way home, it would start to overheat just as I crested a decent
downhill. I would put the car into neutral and coast down the hill at 50,
and it would not overheat! Weird!
|
Mr. 86,
Is the thermostat installed properly? I've seen some weird things happen
when the t-stat is installed upside down.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce L. Bergman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:31:30 GMT, HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:00:27 -0600, Ray O wrote:
Is the thermostat installed properly? I've seen some weird things happen
when the t-stat is installed upside down.
Never checked! But this is on the replacement engine, too! Unless *TWO*
Gumbys installed the thermostats upside down!!!
|
Wanna try for three? Do I hear four? Four, going once... ;-)
Getting the thermostat installed upside down (if said gumby didn't
know there /is/ a right way and a wrong way) is right up there with
dropping toast - I.E. what are the odds it lands butter side down?
And the odds on the toast falling butter-side-down if the floor is
covered in very expensive wool carpet are...?
This is a junkyard replacement engine that you don't know the
history on? Take it apart and look. Unless you know the last person
working on the engine had a clue, it's probably installed upside down
or the wrong sta(n)t.
(If you think the last word in the previous sentence is a typo, it's
not. Think about it some more.) ;-)
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Yet another interesting problem! |
|
|
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:00:27 -0600, Ray O wrote:
| Quote: |
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:75Sqd.2090$_C2.1447@trndny01...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:53:52 +0000, TeGGer® wrote:
HachiRoku <Trueno@ae86.GTS> floridly penned in
news:G6yqd.655$8v3.366@trndny08:
Fan is attached to the crank. No electric fans in this one. And the
guage IS messed up, I have heard of this in 83-85 Celicas...seems to
have been a problem. If I tap the clear plastic in front of the
instruments, it will usually behave itself. When I see it acting up, I
tap the plastic, the guage settles to where it should be and then goes
up towards hot. It ACTS like the thermostat opening.
Take the rad cap off and stick a thermometer into the rad neck. Run the
car
until the gauge goes up into the red and see what the thermometer says.
I'll bet your gauge is wrong and the car isn't overheating at all.
Well, today the guage behaved itself all day. Usually it 'sproings' back
and forth before settling down, but not today. Here's what I noticed:
The temperatur started to kreep up as it does. I had the valve opened
slightly, as it was pretty warm (for this time of year). Now, this is
characteristic of this 'problem'. I saw the guage settle, and then start
creeping up. I shut the valve fully. The guage stayed where it was, and
after 20 seconds krept back down to normal, where it stayed for the rest
of the drive.
Same thing at lunch. Guage gets to normal, then starts to move towards
hot. Close the valve, the guage stops, then kreeps back down.
Note: this ONLY happens at initial warm-up! Once the car is up to
operating temp, it stays at op. temp. I can start the car forever once it
gets to normal temp. Also, we moved our dealership. Where we were before,
on the way home, it would start to overheat just as I crested a decent
downhill. I would put the car into neutral and coast down the hill at 50,
and it would not overheat! Weird!
Mr. 86,
|
LOL! Well, we know what 'Hachiroku' means!!!
| Quote: |
Is the thermostat installed properly? I've seen some weird things happen
when the t-stat is installed upside down.
|
Never checked! But this is on the replacement engine, too! Unless *TWO*
Gumbys installed the thermostats upside down!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in