| Author |
Message |
billy
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject:
99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
~billy
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fbloogyudsr
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
| Quote: | My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
|
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd |
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J Strickland
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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What Floyd said. The only tricky part is holding the cams still and getting
the VANOS set up right. There is a special tool that makes this job pretty
easy, but I have no clue as to how you can get the tool.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:11esfb12kounn35@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | "billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd |
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| Back to top |
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billy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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|
Great feedback; thanks guys. When you say "getting the VANOS setup
right," is that part of the the holding the cams still issue? Ok so
cool, that sounds like something that is a "hit or miss" and it may be
trying on the patience, but once it's together I should be ok (?) I am
not in a hurry so I can always come back here and bug you guys too :)
Thanks again,
~billy
| Quote: | What Floyd said. The only tricky part is holding the cams still and getting
the VANOS set up right. There is a special tool that makes this job pretty
easy, but I have no clue as to how you can get the tool.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:11esfb12kounn35@corp.supernews.com...
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd
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Malt_Hound
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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billy wrote:
| Quote: | Great feedback; thanks guys. When you say "getting the VANOS setup
right," is that part of the the holding the cams still issue? Ok so
cool, that sounds like something that is a "hit or miss" and it may be
trying on the patience, but once it's together I should be ok (?) I am
not in a hurry so I can always come back here and bug you guys too :)
Thanks again,
~billy
|
Yeah, you do want to take your time and get the valve timing right or
all your engine rebuilding will be for naught. It is called an
"interference" engine for a reason...
-Fred W |
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billy
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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Are there any good books I should get (aside from the obvious manuals)?
I would like to have as much text as possible and any websites so I can
do proper research and build up a plan first. Thanks a lot.
~billy
| Quote: |
Yeah, you do want to take your time and get the valve timing right or
all your engine rebuilding will be for naught. It is called an
"interference" engine for a reason...
-Fred W |
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| Back to top |
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J Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
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|
VANOS is a cam timing adjuster mechanism. The cams have to be held in the
right place, and the VANOS mechanism has to be attached and aligned. It
isn't a technically difficult job to do, but it has to be done just right,
and it can slip a bit and this might not be noticed until you determine that
the VANOS isn't working quite right.
If I understand it right, the cam and the VANOS mechanism can be off by a
tooth, and then you will notice it as a performance issue after the engine
is put together. The job of the VANOS is to alter the intake valve timing to
give low end torque -- I may be oversimplifying the description here. When
the VANOS is not set up right, then you may not get the low end kick that
you should. Basically, you should be aware of a feeling that reminds you of
the secondaries kicking in back in th eOld Days of the 4 bbl carburators.
VANOS is what causes this, if the VANOS is not right, the motor can run fine
but you don't have the 4bbl carb-opening-up-feeling that should be present.
Bottom line, if you take care to align the cams and be patient, you should
be OK with the rebuild.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:FNuHe.23347$HV1.3297@fed1read07...
| Quote: | Great feedback; thanks guys. When you say "getting the VANOS setup right,"
is that part of the the holding the cams still issue? Ok so cool, that
sounds like something that is a "hit or miss" and it may be trying on the
patience, but once it's together I should be ok (?) I am not in a hurry so
I can always come back here and bug you guys too :) Thanks again,
~billy
What Floyd said. The only tricky part is holding the cams still and
getting the VANOS set up right. There is a special tool that makes this
job pretty easy, but I have no clue as to how you can get the tool.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:11esfb12kounn35@corp.supernews.com...
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd
|
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| Back to top |
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billy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
Cool. I will be as careful and patient as needed. I guess though that
the tough part is, as you've pointed out, being aware of what's going on
enough so that you're sure you got it right before closing up the
engine. I'll read up on this. Thanks a lot,
~billy
J Strickland wrote:
| Quote: | VANOS is a cam timing adjuster mechanism. The cams have to be held in the
right place, and the VANOS mechanism has to be attached and aligned. It
isn't a technically difficult job to do, but it has to be done just right,
and it can slip a bit and this might not be noticed until you determine that
the VANOS isn't working quite right.
If I understand it right, the cam and the VANOS mechanism can be off by a
tooth, and then you will notice it as a performance issue after the engine
is put together. The job of the VANOS is to alter the intake valve timing to
give low end torque -- I may be oversimplifying the description here. When
the VANOS is not set up right, then you may not get the low end kick that
you should. Basically, you should be aware of a feeling that reminds you of
the secondaries kicking in back in th eOld Days of the 4 bbl carburators.
VANOS is what causes this, if the VANOS is not right, the motor can run fine
but you don't have the 4bbl carb-opening-up-feeling that should be present.
Bottom line, if you take care to align the cams and be patient, you should
be OK with the rebuild.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:FNuHe.23347$HV1.3297@fed1read07...
Great feedback; thanks guys. When you say "getting the VANOS setup right,"
is that part of the the holding the cams still issue? Ok so cool, that
sounds like something that is a "hit or miss" and it may be trying on the
patience, but once it's together I should be ok (?) I am not in a hurry so
I can always come back here and bug you guys too :) Thanks again,
~billy
What Floyd said. The only tricky part is holding the cams still and
getting the VANOS set up right. There is a special tool that makes this
job pretty easy, but I have no clue as to how you can get the tool.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:11esfb12kounn35@corp.supernews.com...
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and
I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic
and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine
would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up
on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd
|
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| Back to top |
|
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Malt_Hound
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
J Strickland wrote:
| Quote: | VANOS is a cam timing adjuster mechanism. The cams have to be held in the
right place, and the VANOS mechanism has to be attached and aligned. It
isn't a technically difficult job to do, but it has to be done just right,
and it can slip a bit and this might not be noticed until you determine that
the VANOS isn't working quite right.
If I understand it right, the cam and the VANOS mechanism can be off by a
tooth, and then you will notice it as a performance issue after the engine
is put together. The job of the VANOS is to alter the intake valve timing to
give low end torque -- I may be oversimplifying the description here. When
the VANOS is not set up right, then you may not get the low end kick that
you should. Basically, you should be aware of a feeling that reminds you of
the secondaries kicking in back in th eOld Days of the 4 bbl carburators.
VANOS is what causes this, if the VANOS is not right, the motor can run fine
but you don't have the 4bbl carb-opening-up-feeling that should be present.
|
I have noticed that feeling on my '95 325i (single VANOS) but not with
my '97 Z3 2.8 (dual VANOS). I'm not sure if that is an artifact of the
earlier implementations or not, so the OP (with a dual VANOS M3) may or
may not get that sensation normally.
-Fred W |
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| Back to top |
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billy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
I'm not sure exactly what feeling you're talking about. My dad had a
tons of muscle cars (mostly mid year Chevys) when I was growing up and I
got to "borrow" a couple here and there and I'd get sucked into the seat
pretty good, but that's about it. I don't think I ever noticed
specifcially the secondary kicking in and changing the feeling. What is
it exactly?
~billy
Malt_Hound wrote:
| Quote: | J Strickland wrote:
VANOS is a cam timing adjuster mechanism. The cams have to be held in
the right place, and the VANOS mechanism has to be attached and
aligned. It isn't a technically difficult job to do, but it has to be
done just right, and it can slip a bit and this might not be noticed
until you determine that the VANOS isn't working quite right.
If I understand it right, the cam and the VANOS mechanism can be off
by a tooth, and then you will notice it as a performance issue after
the engine is put together. The job of the VANOS is to alter the
intake valve timing to give low end torque -- I may be oversimplifying
the description here. When the VANOS is not set up right, then you may
not get the low end kick that you should. Basically, you should be
aware of a feeling that reminds you of the secondaries kicking in back
in th eOld Days of the 4 bbl carburators. VANOS is what causes this,
if the VANOS is not right, the motor can run fine but you don't have
the 4bbl carb-opening-up-feeling that should be present.
I have noticed that feeling on my '95 325i (single VANOS) but not with
my '97 Z3 2.8 (dual VANOS). I'm not sure if that is an artifact of the
earlier implementations or not, so the OP (with a dual VANOS M3) may or
may not get that sensation normally.
-Fred W |
|
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| Back to top |
|
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fbloogyudsr
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
| Quote: | I'm not sure exactly what feeling you're talking about. My dad had a tons
of muscle cars (mostly mid year Chevys) when I was growing up and I got to
"borrow" a couple here and there and I'd get sucked into the seat pretty
good, but that's about it. I don't think I ever noticed specifcially the
secondary kicking in and changing the feeling. What is it exactly?
|
With a 4-barrel carb (or, in the case of multiple carbs like the old
Chrysler
hemis with dual 4-barrel or Chevy triple 2-barrel) the throttle linkage
opens the
secondary barrels as you go deeper into the throttle.
Floyd |
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J Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:13 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
It's one of those jobs that requires three arms, that's all. The trouble is,
you need to have all of those arms connected to you, having an arm from a
helper may only get in the way.
Since you have been warned, and if you take reasonable care, then you should
be OK.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:cFzHe.23699$HV1.17433@fed1read07...
| Quote: | Cool. I will be as careful and patient as needed. I guess though that the
tough part is, as you've pointed out, being aware of what's going on
enough so that you're sure you got it right before closing up the engine.
I'll read up on this. Thanks a lot,
~billy
J Strickland wrote:
VANOS is a cam timing adjuster mechanism. The cams have to be held in the
right place, and the VANOS mechanism has to be attached and aligned. It
isn't a technically difficult job to do, but it has to be done just
right, and it can slip a bit and this might not be noticed until you
determine that the VANOS isn't working quite right.
If I understand it right, the cam and the VANOS mechanism can be off by a
tooth, and then you will notice it as a performance issue after the
engine is put together. The job of the VANOS is to alter the intake valve
timing to give low end torque -- I may be oversimplifying the description
here. When the VANOS is not set up right, then you may not get the low
end kick that you should. Basically, you should be aware of a feeling
that reminds you of the secondaries kicking in back in th eOld Days of
the 4 bbl carburators. VANOS is what causes this, if the VANOS is not
right, the motor can run fine but you don't have the 4bbl
carb-opening-up-feeling that should be present.
Bottom line, if you take care to align the cams and be patient, you
should be OK with the rebuild.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:FNuHe.23347$HV1.3297@fed1read07...
Great feedback; thanks guys. When you say "getting the VANOS setup
right," is that part of the the holding the cams still issue? Ok so cool,
that sounds like something that is a "hit or miss" and it may be trying
on the patience, but once it's together I should be ok (?) I am not in a
hurry so I can always come back here and bug you guys too :) Thanks
again,
~billy
What Floyd said. The only tricky part is holding the cams still and
getting the VANOS set up right. There is a special tool that makes this
job pretty easy, but I have no clue as to how you can get the tool.
"fbloogyudsr" <fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:11esfb12kounn35@corp.supernews.com...
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote
My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is
telling me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver
and I was considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors
(domestic and foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated
this engine would be and if there were any known difficult spots I may
get hung up on. It's the stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
You appear to be in the US. The US M3 E36 engine is no more
complicated
than the non-M engines. AFAIK, the only tricky parts are the VANOS
and camshaft-related stuff. Go for it.
Floyd
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
|
J Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:13 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
I can't imagine how you could need a rebuild already, unless you visit the
Red Line often, and stay for a while. My car (M50 motor) had over 220000
California miles on it, and I was nowhere near thinking that a rebuild was
in the cards.
Having said that, the valve train is the most complicated, as we discussed
in another thread.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:piqHe.23301$HV1.252@fed1read07...
| Quote: | My 99 M3 has had a knock (maybe "piston slap") and the mechanic is telling
me I need the engine rebuilt. This car isn't my daily driver and I was
considering doing it myself. I've rebuilt other motors (domestic and
foreign) and was wondering how much more complicated this engine would be
and if there were any known difficult spots I may get hung up on. It's the
stock 3.2L M3 engine. Thanks,
~billy |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:13 am Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
Billy,
You have the Bentley manual that covers your car, right?
It is perhaps too general for an engine rebuild, but is a good book to have
for evey BMW owner that does more than put gas in the tank.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:s1vHe.23348$HV1.9567@fed1read07...
| Quote: | Are there any good books I should get (aside from the obvious manuals)? I
would like to have as much text as possible and any websites so I can do
proper research and build up a plan first. Thanks a lot.
~billy
Yeah, you do want to take your time and get the valve timing right or all
your engine rebuilding will be for naught. It is called an
"interference" engine for a reason...
-Fred W |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
billy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject:
Re: 99 (e36) M3 engine questions |
|
|
Yeah, I have that one. I'll score some other material online or otherwise.
In re to your other statement about my car not likely needing a rebuild,
I agree with you. It had / has a knock that would appear while
"cruising" - holding a steady spead/rpms. My mechanic replaced all 6 rod
bearings and the knock never went away. He has it now and said it's not
the valvetrain, but he thinks there's play somewhere between the piston
and the rod and that it may be slapping. The car has 60k miles and I've
taken it into the red maybe 10 times tops and _very_ briefly each time.
He says it may as well be rebuilt and it's crazy expensive. I just
wanted to sell the car, but didn't want to sell it with the knock. Maybe
should I see another mechanic. My guy seems good and he's cool, but it
won't hurt. I'm in San Diego if anyone can recommend a good bmw mechanic
here I'd appreciate it. I'd appreciate any other feedback as well.
Thanks for your help.
~billy
J Strickland wrote:
| Quote: | Billy,
You have the Bentley manual that covers your car, right?
It is perhaps too general for an engine rebuild, but is a good book to have
for evey BMW owner that does more than put gas in the tank.
"billy" <billy_dev@REEMUVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:s1vHe.23348$HV1.9567@fed1read07...
Are there any good books I should get (aside from the obvious manuals)? I
would like to have as much text as possible and any websites so I can do
proper research and build up a plan first. Thanks a lot.
~billy
Yeah, you do want to take your time and get the valve timing right or all
your engine rebuilding will be for naught. It is called an
"interference" engine for a reason...
-Fred W
|
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