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Message |
Nicodemus Telrenner
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got almost
every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
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Backyard Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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Nicodemus Telrenner opined in
news:Xns95AAC1A80E7C5citygangrelassassin@216.196.97.136:
| Quote: | HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got
almost every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
|
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54
Covers the genre
Also look here:
http://www.jason.fletcher.net/forsale/perfbooks.htm |
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lugnut
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:02:10 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner
<spectrewlf@nospam.zianet.com> wrote:
| Quote: | HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got almost
every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
|
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
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Deadcarnahans
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:23 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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| Quote: | What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
|
It's not hard to rebuild one and perk it up at the same time.
I'm putting a custom grind hydraulic roller cam in mine to help bring it up to
date.
www.351c.info/phpbb
check out this site...
DC |
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351CJ
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:48 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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"lugnut" <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:drf9q01dd07nbnjua0mh42hshkoe98kenk@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:02:10 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner
spectrewlf@nospam.zianet.com> wrote:
HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got
almost
every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
|
The only people who make these absurd statements about Ford 351 Cleveland
four barrel heads, are those who have never driven one on the street!
In stock form, any one of the 351 Cleveland four barrel engines makes more
torque and horsepower than any stock 351 Windsor or stock two barrel
Cleveland.
If you took a perfect four barrel engine and swapped the four barrel heads
for a pair of two barrel heads, with no other changes you would suffer a
performance loss not gain!
If you had ever driven a 351 Cleveland four barrel engine that is running
properly on the street, You would not keep repeating this asinine myth. |
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lugnut
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:26 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:48:48 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@MSN.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"lugnut" <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:drf9q01dd07nbnjua0mh42hshkoe98kenk@4ax.com...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:02:10 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner
spectrewlf@nospam.zianet.com> wrote:
HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got
almost
every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
The only people who make these absurd statements about Ford 351 Cleveland
four barrel heads, are those who have never driven one on the street!
In stock form, any one of the 351 Cleveland four barrel engines makes more
torque and horsepower than any stock 351 Windsor or stock two barrel
Cleveland.
If you took a perfect four barrel engine and swapped the four barrel heads
for a pair of two barrel heads, with no other changes you would suffer a
performance loss not gain!
If you had ever driven a 351 Cleveland four barrel engine that is running
properly on the street, You would not keep repeating this asinine myth.
|
I don't think you read or received what I said. Of course,
you will get more peak power from the 4v heads. That's why
Ford made them. I was pointing out that the 2v heads make a
nicer driveability engine at lower rpm in a heavy car like
the Torino on the street. I suspect he is my age and is
somewhat interested in an engine that is strong and smooth
across a fairly wide operating range for daily driving. The
4v heads do their trick very sweetly above 3500 rpm or so.
Asinine or not, I have owned and built both. All else being
equal in the torino, the 2v head engine is nicer to drive on
the street in the low to medium RPM range. My 4v engines
have always brought a smile to my face as soon as they get
above 3000-3500rpm and all hell breaks loose. The pre-72
high compression engines did not suffer this problem nearly
as bad but, the 72-74 engine with the open chambers sucked
big time off the bottom end. The 4v engines are very happy
in the mid to high rpm range. They can also be helped
immensely with a bump into the 9.5-10.0 compression range.
The open heads are not happy with regular fuel at
compression that high but, since it is going to be a toy,
that may not matter as it does not to me. |
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Deadcarnahans
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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| Quote: | They can also be helped
immensely with a bump into the 9.5-10.0 compression range.
The open heads are not happy with regular fuel at
compression that high but, since it is going to be a toy,
that may not matter as it does not to me.
|
What do you think about using the 2V open heads with the TRW flat top pistons?
What kind of compression would this yield?
Just for a mildly hopped up all around street engine that will burn todays
fuel.
DC |
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351CJ
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
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"lugnut" <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:co8aq0lcq2mu2q853j0k731ko4h4ar3gtc@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:48:48 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@MSN.com
wrote:
"lugnut" <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:drf9q01dd07nbnjua0mh42hshkoe98kenk@4ax.com...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:02:10 -0600, Nicodemus Telrenner
spectrewlf@nospam.zianet.com> wrote:
HEy guys, this is a questionf or my Dad:
He is rebuilding his Bachelor car, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport. He got
almost
every option (it has the C4? auto) 351 Cleavland.
He is rebuilding the motor.
Any suggestions, tips?
What i primarily want to find out is as much as we can about the 351C.
Things you can do to upgrade its power a little without bombing it.
Thanks in ADvance
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
The only people who make these absurd statements about Ford 351 Cleveland
four barrel heads, are those who have never driven one on the street!
In stock form, any one of the 351 Cleveland four barrel engines makes
more
torque and horsepower than any stock 351 Windsor or stock two barrel
Cleveland.
If you took a perfect four barrel engine and swapped the four barrel
heads
for a pair of two barrel heads, with no other changes you would suffer a
performance loss not gain!
If you had ever driven a 351 Cleveland four barrel engine that is running
properly on the street, You would not keep repeating this asinine myth.
I don't think you read or received what I said. Of course,
you will get more peak power from the 4v heads. That's why
Ford made them. I was pointing out that the 2v heads make a
nicer driveability engine at lower rpm in a heavy car like
the Torino on the street. I suspect he is my age and is
somewhat interested in an engine that is strong and smooth
across a fairly wide operating range for daily driving. The
4v heads do their trick very sweetly above 3500 rpm or so.
Asinine or not, I have owned and built both. All else being
equal in the torino, the 2v head engine is nicer to drive on
the street in the low to medium RPM range. My 4v engines
have always brought a smile to my face as soon as they get
above 3000-3500rpm and all hell breaks loose. The pre-72
high compression engines did not suffer this problem nearly
as bad but, the 72-74 engine with the open chambers sucked
big time off the bottom end. The 4v engines are very happy
in the mid to high rpm range. They can also be helped
immensely with a bump into the 9.5-10.0 compression range.
The open heads are not happy with regular fuel at
compression that high but, since it is going to be a toy,
that may not matter as it does not to me.
|
Evidently your idea of "making a nicer drivability engine at lower rpm in a
heavy car like the Torino on the street" and mine are two different things.
I still contend that there is nothing about a four barrel Cleveland engine
that makes it less of a "nicer drivability engine at lower rpm in a heavy
car like the Torino on the street" then the two barrel version, and quite a
bit that makes it a better choice.
BTW:
My first four barrel Cleveland was a 351 Cobra Jet in a 1971 Torino, This
car would froth the tires in all 4 gears without breathing hard. Absolutely
NO low rpm torque deficiency. I still have that car and engine, the car now
sports a 460, and the 351 Cobra Jet engine is in another project, soon to be
transplanted again...
I'll lay off when you produce some real torque curves that back up your
position. Otherwise I still contend it is a myth. |
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Nicodemus Telrenner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
|
|
lugnut <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:drf9q01dd07nbnjua0mh42hshkoe98kenk@4ax.com:
| Quote: |
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
|
Sorry about that:
It is the 2v Engine. He did buy it new, the only thing I beleive he
left out for sure was the air intake for the hood (it has the holes, but
not the pipeing to the air intake). He has the Deluxe dash (he had a 73
2 door regular coupe as well, with the normal dash, what a difference)m
floor mounted auto tranny (3 speed), AM only Stereo, umm...if i still
lived close to him iw oudl go look at the plate, but I am in colorado
now and he is in Lower New Mexico ::shrugs::.
It is that wonderful royal blue color that seems unique to Ford (Ford
blue?).
I know the engine currently doesnt have the correct seals (it hink its
valve seats or valve seals, he told me ONEC) that woudl allow it to run
on unleaded.
This is what he told me he wanted to do:
He wants to keep it runnable on regular unleaded. (so that pretty much
kills the higher compression heads), unless you guys know how to do the
higher compression heads without required premium gas?
Thank guys,f or all the info you have given so far (the truck link only
talked about 351M's...i dont even know what a 351m is :-) ). |
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Kevin Bottorff
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:06 am Post subject:
Re: 72 Gran Torino Rebuild |
|
|
Nicodemus Telrenner <spectrewlf@nospam.zianet.com> wrote in
news:Xns95AC2A5A72444citygangrelassassin@216.196.97.136:
| Quote: | lugnut <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:drf9q01dd07nbnjua0mh42hshkoe98kenk@4ax.com:
You don't say which 351C you are working with. The 2v
engine is the best starting point for a nice street engine.
The 4v engine has it's strong points but, the 2v will be
better for good driveability because of the heads. There
are several in this groupas well as other groups who have
built these things. BTW, did your dad buy his new? I will
someday complete mine which I watched being built in
Atlanta. In any case, the two engines need to be built
differently for best results. You need to check the door
decal for trans and rear gear info. Build the engine to be
compatible with them.
Sorry about that:
It is the 2v Engine. He did buy it new, the only thing I beleive he
left out for sure was the air intake for the hood (it has the holes,
but
not the pipeing to the air intake). He has the Deluxe dash (he had a
73
2 door regular coupe as well, with the normal dash, what a difference)m
floor mounted auto tranny (3 speed), AM only Stereo, umm...if i still
lived close to him iw oudl go look at the plate, but I am in colorado
now and he is in Lower New Mexico ::shrugs::.
It is that wonderful royal blue color that seems unique to Ford (Ford
blue?).
I know the engine currently doesnt have the correct seals (it hink its
valve seats or valve seals, he told me ONEC) that woudl allow it to run
on unleaded.
This is what he told me he wanted to do:
He wants to keep it runnable on regular unleaded. (so that pretty much
kills the higher compression heads), unless you guys know how to do the
higher compression heads without required premium gas?
Thank guys,f or all the info you have given so far (the truck link only
talked about 351M's...i dont even know what a 351m is :-) ).
|
Go to alt.hi-po.big-block-ford-mercury
they have the real knowlagable people about these eng. there. (the 351C
is on topic also) KB
--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on |
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