| Author |
Message |
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:58 am Post subject:
Prius & first responders |
|
|
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents. The webpage that
got me thinking is at
http://www.techinfo.toyota.com
That's one of the free techinfo pages, so anyone can access it. In the
lower righthand corner there's a link to the Prius information for
first responders.
What you'll find there is a 31-page PDF document called "Dismantling
Manual". A first responder will have a lot of thumbing to do in
ferreting out the necessary data, especially if s/he doesn't have a
pristine Prius handy as a lab rat.
Several things bother me. First of all, the manual insists that the
dismantler check the instrument display to ensure that both motors are
off. This is done by making sure the READY alert isn't selected. But if
the Prius has been in a collision, there's no certainty the instrument
display is working. Trying to work with the power on could put a
rescuer at risk.
Second, the manual warns to not perform any dismantling until
withdrawing the key from the ignition. There's no mention that a bunch
of Priuses are equipped with the SmartKey system and might have no key
evident. So far as I can figure, the only way to turn off the power
then would be to get inside and hit the POWER button with a foot on the
brake. What are the odds of being to do that in a wrecked Prius with
the injured driver inside?
Third, the only way to open a locked rear hatch -- possibly the only
functioning entry point after a collision or rollover -- is to use the
remote fob or the door-lock switch on the front doors. Both activators
require 12-volt power to the rear latch's solenoid, and there's no
guarantee power will be available. after a collision. If external 12V
power is to be used, it can only be applied through one terminal inside
the under-hood fusebox, which may have been damaged or rendered
inaccessible.
Fourth, the manual asserts that power remains in the high-voltage
electrical system for five minutes after the HV battery pack is shut
off. Even if a first responder is aware of that hazard, will s/he stand
by while injured parties suffer or die?
Fifth, the manual warns against cutting any orange wire, as these are
associated with the high-voltage circuitry exclusively. In the manual
are diagrams of where these wires run, but not in sufficient detail to
ensure that the Jaws of Life (or whatever other means might be used to
remove sheet metal for access to the injured) won't sever a
high-voltage wire.
Sixth, the manual asserts that the high-voltage battery's electrolyte,
though dangerous, is a gel that is unlikely to leak, even in a
collision. Nevertheless, it describes crucial steps that must be taken
quickly if the caustic alkaline does escape and does contact a person.
The neutralizing requires dilute boric acid or vinegar. It would be
reassuring to know that those neutralizers would be available to first
responders. If not, the manual states, "In an emergency, Toyota
Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) may be requested." I do not find
that a plausible course of action in an emergency.
These circumstances alarm me. A very good friend of mine is a first
responder. He's a generation younger than I. I'm giving him a copy of
the Dismantling Manual with the earnest request that if he's first on
the scene of my wrecked Prius, he's to consider his own safety first.
Brent
|
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|
 |
Andrew Stephenson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <031220052158430447%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk>
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk "Brent Secombe" writes:
| Quote: | Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents. The webpage that
got me thinking is at
http://www.techinfo.toyota.com
That's one of the free techinfo pages, so anyone can access it. In the
lower righthand corner there's a link to the Prius information for
first responders.
[...]
|
The problem with killing the system after an accident that may
have disorganised things possibly could be reduced by fitting a
cutout somewhere near the main battery. Normally this would be
protected, even hidden, but rescuers need not be too gentle.
My first solution would be a "ripcord" handle inside the filler
cap cubbyhole. If you must, you wrench open the filler cap; or
you simply pull the lever by the driver's seat (UK model -- do
LH-drive models also put it by driver?). Then you grab the small
handle and pull: a steel cord running down to an isolation switch
does the safety work, with no need to approach sparks or spills.
UK buses routinely have a fireman's switch with an external sign
advertising its location. I can't believe other countries do not
provide a similar device for their rescue services.
--
Andrew Stephenson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
My BMW knows when it has been in a wreck, and it unlocks the doors, shuts
the radio off, turns the emergency flashers on, and switches the interior
lighting on, surely Toyota engineers can add a battery bypass relay to that
circuit to ensure the safety of owners, passengers, and rescue workers.
This is an old story, and likely an urban legend. If it bothers you, then
don't buy one.
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:031220052158430447%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
| Quote: | Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents. The webpage that
got me thinking is at
http://www.techinfo.toyota.com
That's one of the free techinfo pages, so anyone can access it. In the
lower righthand corner there's a link to the Prius information for
first responders.
What you'll find there is a 31-page PDF document called "Dismantling
Manual". A first responder will have a lot of thumbing to do in
ferreting out the necessary data, especially if s/he doesn't have a
pristine Prius handy as a lab rat.
Several things bother me. First of all, the manual insists that the
dismantler check the instrument display to ensure that both motors are
off. This is done by making sure the READY alert isn't selected. But if
the Prius has been in a collision, there's no certainty the instrument
display is working. Trying to work with the power on could put a
rescuer at risk.
Second, the manual warns to not perform any dismantling until
withdrawing the key from the ignition. There's no mention that a bunch
of Priuses are equipped with the SmartKey system and might have no key
evident. So far as I can figure, the only way to turn off the power
then would be to get inside and hit the POWER button with a foot on the
brake. What are the odds of being to do that in a wrecked Prius with
the injured driver inside?
Third, the only way to open a locked rear hatch -- possibly the only
functioning entry point after a collision or rollover -- is to use the
remote fob or the door-lock switch on the front doors. Both activators
require 12-volt power to the rear latch's solenoid, and there's no
guarantee power will be available. after a collision. If external 12V
power is to be used, it can only be applied through one terminal inside
the under-hood fusebox, which may have been damaged or rendered
inaccessible.
Fourth, the manual asserts that power remains in the high-voltage
electrical system for five minutes after the HV battery pack is shut
off. Even if a first responder is aware of that hazard, will s/he stand
by while injured parties suffer or die?
Fifth, the manual warns against cutting any orange wire, as these are
associated with the high-voltage circuitry exclusively. In the manual
are diagrams of where these wires run, but not in sufficient detail to
ensure that the Jaws of Life (or whatever other means might be used to
remove sheet metal for access to the injured) won't sever a
high-voltage wire.
Sixth, the manual asserts that the high-voltage battery's electrolyte,
though dangerous, is a gel that is unlikely to leak, even in a
collision. Nevertheless, it describes crucial steps that must be taken
quickly if the caustic alkaline does escape and does contact a person.
The neutralizing requires dilute boric acid or vinegar. It would be
reassuring to know that those neutralizers would be available to first
responders. If not, the manual states, "In an emergency, Toyota
Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) may be requested." I do not find
that a plausible course of action in an emergency.
These circumstances alarm me. A very good friend of mine is a first
responder. He's a generation younger than I. I'm giving him a copy of
the Dismantling Manual with the earnest request that if he's first on
the scene of my wrecked Prius, he's to consider his own safety first.
Brent |
|
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|
|
Bonehenge
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:58:43 -0500, Brent Secombe
<bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents.
|
That's 'cause you're not a first responder. <G>
Don't worry, the first responders I know have been trained on
responding to hybrid wrecks. In many cases, the training has involved
traveling road shows at Honda and Toyota dealers. |
|
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|
|
Scott in Florida
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:02:50 GMT, Bonehenge
<Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:58:43 -0500, Brent Secombe
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents.
That's 'cause you're not a first responder. <G
Don't worry, the first responders I know have been trained on
responding to hybrid wrecks. In many cases, the training has involved
traveling road shows at Honda and Toyota dealers.
|
So they shoot the occupants with a .357 and call the meat wagon?
--
Scott in Florida |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <qeydnSeVqvXTBw_enZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
<crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | My BMW knows when it has been in a wreck, and it unlocks the doors, shuts
the radio off, turns the emergency flashers on, and switches the interior
lighting on, surely Toyota engineers can add a battery bypass relay to that
circuit to ensure the safety of owners, passengers, and rescue workers.
This is an old story, and likely an urban legend. If it bothers you, then
don't buy one.
|
Jeff, what part of this situation are you referring to as being an
urband legend?
Thanks.
Brent
| Quote: |
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:031220052158430447%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents. The webpage that
got me thinking is at
http://www.techinfo.toyota.com
That's one of the free techinfo pages, so anyone can access it. In the
lower righthand corner there's a link to the Prius information for
first responders.
What you'll find there is a 31-page PDF document called "Dismantling
Manual". A first responder will have a lot of thumbing to do in
ferreting out the necessary data, especially if s/he doesn't have a
pristine Prius handy as a lab rat.
Several things bother me. First of all, the manual insists that the
dismantler check the instrument display to ensure that both motors are
off. This is done by making sure the READY alert isn't selected. But if
the Prius has been in a collision, there's no certainty the instrument
display is working. Trying to work with the power on could put a
rescuer at risk.
Second, the manual warns to not perform any dismantling until
withdrawing the key from the ignition. There's no mention that a bunch
of Priuses are equipped with the SmartKey system and might have no key
evident. So far as I can figure, the only way to turn off the power
then would be to get inside and hit the POWER button with a foot on the
brake. What are the odds of being to do that in a wrecked Prius with
the injured driver inside?
Third, the only way to open a locked rear hatch -- possibly the only
functioning entry point after a collision or rollover -- is to use the
remote fob or the door-lock switch on the front doors. Both activators
require 12-volt power to the rear latch's solenoid, and there's no
guarantee power will be available. after a collision. If external 12V
power is to be used, it can only be applied through one terminal inside
the under-hood fusebox, which may have been damaged or rendered
inaccessible.
Fourth, the manual asserts that power remains in the high-voltage
electrical system for five minutes after the HV battery pack is shut
off. Even if a first responder is aware of that hazard, will s/he stand
by while injured parties suffer or die?
Fifth, the manual warns against cutting any orange wire, as these are
associated with the high-voltage circuitry exclusively. In the manual
are diagrams of where these wires run, but not in sufficient detail to
ensure that the Jaws of Life (or whatever other means might be used to
remove sheet metal for access to the injured) won't sever a
high-voltage wire.
Sixth, the manual asserts that the high-voltage battery's electrolyte,
though dangerous, is a gel that is unlikely to leak, even in a
collision. Nevertheless, it describes crucial steps that must be taken
quickly if the caustic alkaline does escape and does contact a person.
The neutralizing requires dilute boric acid or vinegar. It would be
reassuring to know that those neutralizers would be available to first
responders. If not, the manual states, "In an emergency, Toyota
Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) may be requested." I do not find
that a plausible course of action in an emergency.
These circumstances alarm me. A very good friend of mine is a first
responder. He's a generation younger than I. I'm giving him a copy of
the Dismantling Manual with the earnest request that if he's first on
the scene of my wrecked Prius, he's to consider his own safety first.
Brent
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <i3q5p1lte1ol5ebl883j0r4d3tvpsjm488@4ax.com>, Bonehenge
<Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:58:43 -0500, Brent Secombe
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents.
That's 'cause you're not a first responder. <G
Don't worry, the first responders I know have been trained on
responding to hybrid wrecks. In many cases, the training has involved
traveling road shows at Honda and Toyota dealers.
|
That's good to know. Eventually the training might be ubiquitous, but
model changes will make it a constant struggle to stay current. My
friend, the small-town first responder, hasn't had such training yet.
Brent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <1133669455snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Stephenson
<ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <031220052158430447%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk "Brent Secombe" writes:
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents. The webpage that
got me thinking is at
http://www.techinfo.toyota.com
That's one of the free techinfo pages, so anyone can access it. In the
lower righthand corner there's a link to the Prius information for
first responders.
[...]
The problem with killing the system after an accident that may
have disorganised things possibly could be reduced by fitting a
cutout somewhere near the main battery. Normally this would be
protected, even hidden, but rescuers need not be too gentle.
|
I hope Toyota is reading this, Andrew.
| Quote: |
My first solution would be a "ripcord" handle inside the filler
cap cubbyhole. If you must, you wrench open the filler cap; or
you simply pull the lever by the driver's seat (UK model -- do
LH-drive models also put it by driver?).
|
Yes.
| Quote: | Then you grab the small
handle and pull: a steel cord running down to an isolation switch
does the safety work, with no need to approach sparks or spills.
|
That would work.
| Quote: | UK buses routinely have a fireman's switch with an external sign
advertising its location. I can't believe other countries do not
provide a similar device for their rescue services.
|
I can't recall having seen one on a US bus, but it might be there
somewhere.
Say, Andrew... if you're anywhere near Coventry, please consider
dropping me a line. In my listed email address, just replace the "over"
with an "e". Thanks.
Brent |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Bonehenge
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:40 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:13:55 -0500, Brent Secombe
<bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
That's good to know. Eventually the training might be ubiquitous, but
model changes will make it a constant struggle to stay current. My
friend, the small-town first responder, hasn't had such training yet.
|
Perhaps he should start with Google?
<http://www.firehouse.com/extrication/archives/2001/august01.html>
Contact with local Honda and Toyota dealers will provide direction to
more information. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:49 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <d2h6p1d58be2h98c33qqf1d579um6si59e@4ax.com>, Bonehenge
<Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:13:55 -0500, Brent Secombe
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
That's good to know. Eventually the training might be ubiquitous, but
model changes will make it a constant struggle to stay current. My
friend, the small-town first responder, hasn't had such training yet.
Perhaps he should start with Google?
http://www.firehouse.com/extrication/archives/2001/august01.html
Contact with local Honda and Toyota dealers will provide direction to
more information.
|
Yes. I think he and I can set up something with a nearby dealer,
possibly an area-wide training session. The dealership was recently
sold to a new owner who might be interested in the publicity. Thanks
for the heads-up.
Brent |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:21 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:041220050910435720%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <qeydnSeVqvXTBw_enZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
My BMW knows when it has been in a wreck, and it unlocks the doors, shuts
the radio off, turns the emergency flashers on, and switches the interior
lighting on, surely Toyota engineers can add a battery bypass relay to
that
circuit to ensure the safety of owners, passengers, and rescue workers.
This is an old story, and likely an urban legend. If it bothers you, then
don't buy one.
Jeff, what part of this situation are you referring to as being an
urband legend?
|
The part after, "Visiting the Toyota Website."
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Pardon me for stealing a qoute from
the movies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brent Secombe
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <Pe6dnZ4C7-5u9g7enZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
<crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:041220050910435720%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
In article <qeydnSeVqvXTBw_enZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
My BMW knows when it has been in a wreck, and it unlocks the doors, shuts
the radio off, turns the emergency flashers on, and switches the interior
lighting on, surely Toyota engineers can add a battery bypass relay to
that
circuit to ensure the safety of owners, passengers, and rescue workers.
This is an old story, and likely an urban legend. If it bothers you, then
don't buy one.
Jeff, what part of this situation are you referring to as being an
urband legend?
The part after, "Visiting the Toyota Website."
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Pardon me for stealing a qoute from
the movies.
|
Quite all right. We'll look elsewhere for damns. :-)
I remain concerned, because the problem is real. But with the input
from some contributors here I think I'm on the way to relieving the
situation, at least locally.
This is a good group. Thanks to all.
Brent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andrew Stephenson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:07 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
In article <041220050920260809%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk>
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk "Brent Secombe" writes:
| Quote: | In article <1133669455snz@deltrak.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Stephenson
ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[idea for isolating the Prius main battery]
I hope Toyota is reading this, Andrew.
|
It would be pleasant to suppose they are. But, really, what are
the odds? If they ever peeked into this NG what would they find
to keep them coming back? :-(
| Quote: | Say, Andrew... if you're anywhere near Coventry, please consider
dropping me a line. In my listed email address, just replace the "over"
with an "e". Thanks.
|
Ta. Going by when I was last in that neck of the woods, I'd not
expect me before 2050. :-) But I've noted the email address.
--
Andrew Stephenson |
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|
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Hachiroku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:06:42 -0500, Scott in Florida wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:02:50 GMT, Bonehenge
Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:58:43 -0500, Brent Secombe
bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Visiting the Toyota website I found a reference to information for
first responders at an accident involving a Prius. I had not thought
previously about the hazard a wrecked hybrid presents.
That's 'cause you're not a first responder. <G
Don't worry, the first responders I know have been trained on
responding to hybrid wrecks. In many cases, the training has involved
traveling road shows at Honda and Toyota dealers.
So they shoot the occupants with a .357 and call the meat wagon?
|
I didn't notice when I clicked on the post who posted it, but I didn't
have to look after reading it!
Did you see the cartoon I 'modified' for you in a.b.i.f?
--
Have your Virtual Pet spayed/neutered!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Strickland
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Re: Prius & first responders |
|
|
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:041220051800438587%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <Pe6dnZ4C7-5u9g7enZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:041220050910435720%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
In article <qeydnSeVqvXTBw_enZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@ez2.net>, Jeff Strickland
crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:
My BMW knows when it has been in a wreck, and it unlocks the doors,
shuts
the radio off, turns the emergency flashers on, and switches the
interior
lighting on, surely Toyota engineers can add a battery bypass relay to
that
circuit to ensure the safety of owners, passengers, and rescue
workers.
This is an old story, and likely an urban legend. If it bothers you,
then
don't buy one.
Jeff, what part of this situation are you referring to as being an
urband legend?
The part after, "Visiting the Toyota Website."
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Pardon me for stealing a qoute from
the movies.
Quite all right. We'll look elsewhere for damns. :-)
I remain concerned, because the problem is real. But with the input
from some contributors here I think I'm on the way to relieving the
situation, at least locally.
This is a good group. Thanks to all.
|
Your crusade has a certain sky-is-falling quality to it. I think the First
Responders know all about this and are prepared to deal with it. |
|
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|
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