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RP
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:
Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Hi guys, I've been thinking about getting an MP3-capable HU to replace
the Business CD unit in my 2000 323i. I'm on the road in the boonies a
lot, and there are a few radio stations I really like in fringe areas,
especially during football season. If I do this, I'd like to get a
unit with maximum radio sensitivity. So my questions:
Who do you think has the best radio reception, primarily on FM? I was
thinking a Pioneer with Supertuner IIID, or a Blaupunkt Digiceiver...
Those have the best specs, anyway. Anyone have any experience with
those?
Would a new unit, even the best ones, really get stations better than
the stock Business CD unit? For weeks I've had the horrible noise
problem on AM that I've seen described before, but just today I
tinkered with the amp in the driver side back c-pillar and it cleared
right up. FM was never the worst... So would this be a waste of time?
I *think* I could find something better, but I'm not sure. I don't
even know what the specs on the Business CD model are, or even who the
OEM manufacturer is.
Is there anything else I should consider?
I've got a harebrained idea for possibly trying to somehow put a VW
Jetta/Golf antenna in place of the the roof cell antenna and tap into
it somehow, but I'll save that one for later. :) Maybe the diversity
antenna would work okay with a more sensitive tuner.
Thanks for reading. :)
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Floyd Rogers
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:29 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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"RP" <poteetr@sbcglobal.net> wrote
| Quote: | Would a new unit, even the best ones, really get stations better than
the stock Business CD unit? For weeks I've had the horrible noise
problem on AM that I've seen described before, but just today I
tinkered with the amp in the driver side back c-pillar and it cleared
right up. FM was never the worst... So would this be a waste of time?
|
The problem with AM reception is usually related to the ground for the
antenna. My AM reception in fringe areas goes to pot when I turn on the
rear window defroster - some crossover in the ground and amps is the
problem.
The radio was replaced just before the warranty ran out and it improved
things
for a few months until the ground went bad again.
| Quote: | I *think* I could find something better, but I'm not sure. I don't
even know what the specs on the Business CD model are, or even who the
OEM manufacturer is.
Is there anything else I should consider?
I've got a harebrained idea for possibly trying to somehow put a VW
Jetta/Golf antenna in place of the the roof cell antenna and tap into
it somehow, but I'll save that one for later. :) Maybe the diversity
antenna would work okay with a more sensitive tuner.
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My guess is that ANY antenna other than the in-glass one will be better.
The ground problem will continue to come back with the diversity antenna
and amp.
FloydR |
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R. Mark Clayton
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:16 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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"RP" <poteetr@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1129683922.067508.89930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hi guys, I've been thinking about getting an MP3-capable HU to replace
the Business CD unit in my 2000 323i. I'm on the road in the boonies a
lot, and there are a few radio stations I really like in fringe areas,
especially during football season. If I do this, I'd like to get a
unit with maximum radio sensitivity. So my questions:
Who do you think has the best radio reception, primarily on FM? I was
thinking a Pioneer with Supertuner IIID, or a Blaupunkt Digiceiver...
Those have the best specs, anyway. Anyone have any experience with
those?
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What you need for good reception is a decent aerial.
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RP
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:53 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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So is the diversity antenna really that inadequate?
I may actually try to substitute an AM/FM antenna for the stubby cell
antenna on the roof and see what happens. It's not like the cell
antenna has been or ever will be used anyway. :) |
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Floyd Rogers
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:27 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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"RP" <poteetr@sbcglobal.net> wrote
| Quote: | So is the diversity antenna really that inadequate?
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IMO, any time you need an in-line amplifier between the antenna and
receiver,
it's inadequate. It's also inadequate in that every connection between the
antenna
and receiver has to be perfect: that's why *REAL* receivers use BNP, Coax
or
other connectors that aren't as subject to corrosion, broken wires, etc.
Floyd Rogers |
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sgfan3
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:03 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Here's another option if you REALLY like radio. I recently got an XM SKIFI 2
and I'm loving it! 200+ stations to choose from and you can pause, rewind,
fast forward. The normal digital features. It will cost around $175 USD for
a nice, clean install (did mine myself). The reception is great but if the
"line-of-site" is blocked, the reception may fade for a second, but is tons
better than any FM radio. It does require a subscription (what doesn't these
days!) of around $13 USD/month but the reception is nation wide. At least in
the US48.
Hope this helps.
Chris
"Floyd Rogers" <fbloogyudsr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11ldej0vlapsfa@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | "RP" <poteetr@sbcglobal.net> wrote
So is the diversity antenna really that inadequate?
IMO, any time you need an in-line amplifier between the antenna and
receiver,
it's inadequate. It's also inadequate in that every connection between
the antenna
and receiver has to be perfect: that's why *REAL* receivers use BNP, Coax
or
other connectors that aren't as subject to corrosion, broken wires, etc.
Floyd Rogers |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:54 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Floyd Rogers wrote:
| Quote: | "RP" <poteetr@sbcglobal.net> wrote
So is the diversity antenna really that inadequate?
IMO, any time you need an in-line amplifier between the antenna and
receiver,
it's inadequate. It's also inadequate in that every connection between
the antenna
and receiver has to be perfect: that's why *REAL* receivers use BNP,
Coax or
other connectors that aren't as subject to corrosion, broken wires, etc.
Floyd Rogers
|
Really... well, I'll need to inform our (overpaid) RF design engineers
that there is no longer any need for a receiver preamp in any sensitive
RF receiver design architecture. I'm sure that they will be relieved to
learn this as those damn preamps are costing a whole lot of money...
The things you can learn on usenet...
;-)
--
-Fred W |
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Floyd Rogers
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:13 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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"Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*spam-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote
| Quote: | Really... well, I'll need to inform our (overpaid) RF design engineers
that there is no longer any need for a receiver preamp in any sensitive
RF receiver design architecture. I'm sure that they will be relieved to
learn this as those damn preamps are costing a whole lot of money...
|
The question is really, where do you put the 1st amplification stage?
Putting it near the antenna allows cheaper wires for the long run from the
rear window to the head unit. It does, however, open up the SYSTEM to
additional failure points..
Get real. Engineering is all trade-offs. In a perfect world, you'd have a
full-wave antenna for every frequency you wanted to receive - we don't
have that, do we? Nor do we have external full-wave antennas for our cell
phones, nor do they have pre-amps between the antenna and receiver.
IMO, the current BMW design is flawed; and there's a lot of pissed
customers out there to prove it. If BMW weren't now run by the stylists,
and they had real antennas, they wouldn't need the pre-amp.
If it weren't for the fact that my DirecTV antenna is more than the
recommended 90' from my receiver, I wouldn't need a pre-amp there,
and that's about as sensitive as an RF receiver needs to be.
Floyd |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Floyd Rogers wrote:
| Quote: | "Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*spam-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote
Really... well, I'll need to inform our (overpaid) RF design
engineers that there is no longer any need for a receiver preamp in
any sensitive RF receiver design architecture. I'm sure that they
will be relieved to learn this as those damn preamps are costing a
whole lot of money...
The question is really, where do you put the 1st amplification stage?
Putting it near the antenna allows cheaper wires for the long run from the
rear window to the head unit. It does, however, open up the SYSTEM to
additional failure points..
|
Actually, it improves the signal to noise ratio regardless of whether
you are using cheap wire or not. So in that sense it is a *superior*
design. Also, I seriously doubt that adding a preamp is less expensive
that the amount they would save by using cheap antenna cable. Where
they are able to save money is in the front end of the head unit receiver.
But you are correct in that adding a preamp does add to the complexity
and is prone to failure as are all active electronic components.
| Quote: |
Get real. Engineering is all trade-offs. In a perfect world, you'd have a
full-wave antenna for every frequency you wanted to receive - we don't
have that, do we? Nor do we have external full-wave antennas for our cell
phones, nor do they have pre-amps between the antenna and receiver.
|
Gee, thanks again for the lecture. Once again I learn something new...
Engineering is all trade-offs. Who'd a thunk?
And here I thought it was in *design* that the trade offs were made...
| Quote: | IMO, the current BMW design is flawed; and there's a lot of pissed
customers out there to prove it. If BMW weren't now run by the stylists,
and they had real antennas, they wouldn't need the pre-amp.
|
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Yeah, there are pissed
off BMW customers, but that does not mean that the design is flawed.
Hell, they are pissed off about everything, not just the radios. Does
that mean the design for the rest of the car is flawed too?
Do I think the BMW supplied radios are very good? No. But I think the
weakness is in the stock POS head units (which is what necessitates them
needing a preamp) not in the antenna preamplifier.
| Quote: | If it weren't for the fact that my DirecTV antenna is more than the
recommended 90' from my receiver, I wouldn't need a pre-amp there,
and that's about as sensitive as an RF receiver needs to be.
|
No. There are far more demanding RF receive applications out there than
DirecTV (or any other entertainment receiver). Preamps are de-rigeur in
those applications.
--
-Fred W |
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RP
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:14 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Not that I want to get in the middle of this argument :), but do you
think they'd still use an amp if they had a 32" whip antenna instead of
the heating element for the back glass? Seems to me like that would be
the reason instead of the weak front end in the HU, but what do I know.
BTW, that was a serious question, not a smart-aleck one. :) I don't
know the answer.
Anyway.... Based on some posts in other forums, I've about decided on a
Pioneer. Does anyone know of a Pioneer with orange or red buttons?
All the current models seem to have green ones, which obviously doesn't
match the rest of the dash at all. |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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RP wrote:
| Quote: | Not that I want to get in the middle of this argument :), but do you
think they'd still use an amp if they had a 32" whip antenna instead of
the heating element for the back glass? Seems to me like that would be
the reason instead of the weak front end in the HU, but what do I know.
BTW, that was a serious question, not a smart-aleck one. :) I don't
know the answer.
Anyway.... Based on some posts in other forums, I've about decided on a
Pioneer. Does anyone know of a Pioneer with orange or red buttons?
All the current models seem to have green ones, which obviously doesn't
match the rest of the dash at all.
|
Great question.
BTW - Do you happen to know the difference between a good question and a
great one? Well... a great one is one for which I know the answer! ;-)
The "diversity" antenna in the rear window is perfectly capable of
pulling in plenty of signal if the receiver is of reasonable sensitivity
even without the use of an antenna preamp. I only know this through
imperial evidence.
Have an older 3 series with the pre-amp and diversity antenna. Radio
sucked the big one. Bad AM, Bad FM, and what are you supposed to do
with a cassette deck these days? Bagged the head unit and replaced it
with a Sony (not particularly expensive) in-dash CD receiver that had a
good FM sensitivity spec. Works like a proverbial champ with no power
going to the preamp.
--
-Fred W |
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RP
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Thanks Fred, that's the kind of real-world experience I was hoping to
hear about. One of my concerns is that I do all this and then
reception isn't noticably better and I've lost my OEM look. So your
case is very encouraging.
Do you have any idea who made your old radio? I think my version of
the Business CD is made by Alpine, but I'm not absolutely sure. |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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RP wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks Fred, that's the kind of real-world experience I was hoping to
hear about. One of my concerns is that I do all this and then
reception isn't noticably better and I've lost my OEM look. So your
case is very encouraging.
Do you have any idea who made your old radio? I think my version of
the Business CD is made by Alpine, but I'm not absolutely sure.
|
I think mine was an Alpine too. I know there was a way to find out
based on a code that would come up on the came when you pressed the
buttons in a certain combination. Sorry I don't have more definite info
on that. You know what they say about when you start to get old... The
memory is the second thing to go, but I'll be damned if I can remember
what the first thing is. ;-)
--
-Fred W |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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Malt_Hound > wrote:
| Quote: | RP wrote:
Thanks Fred, that's the kind of real-world experience I was hoping to
hear about. One of my concerns is that I do all this and then
reception isn't noticably better and I've lost my OEM look. So your
case is very encouraging.
Do you have any idea who made your old radio? I think my version of
the Business CD is made by Alpine, but I'm not absolutely sure.
I think mine was an Alpine too. I know there was a way to find out
based on a code that would come up on the came when you pressed the
buttons in a certain combination. Sorry I don't have more definite info
on that. You know what they say about when you start to get old... The
memory is the second thing to go, but I'll be damned if I can remember
what the first thing is. ;-)
|
One more thing, the car I spoke of was a 1995, so this was pre-Business
CD. Also, the Sony head unit I bought was one of the "explode series"
that has a dark face plate and reddish graphics so it actually fits in
with the orange illumination pretty well.
--
-Fred W |
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RP
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Ultimate radio reception in an e46 |
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My car before this one was a 1995 318i, so I probably had that exact
same cassette unit. :)
I'd noticed that Sony series, too... It seems hard to find a unit that
has orange or red lighting right now, but those do. If I really want a
Pioneer that looks okay, I might have to get a discontinued model I saw
that has it. But it's good to hear that the Sony's FM specs seem to
be realistic. |
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