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Jake
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

warning...

GM invested two billion in hedge funds to test the hedge fund market.
and now they are considering investing billions more.

their 90 billion pension fund in investments is less than a seven %
return on the dollars. which they need to replenish the funds pension
outlay.and keep it afloat.

the fund is staring to feel the pinch. because of low interest rates,
and market conditions.

but hedge funds are the highest type of risk for any investor,
unless they have their own printing press,...

gm management should forget about the hedge fund investing..

those funds are not regulated at all, by any government body.

the commission fees run 2% plus 20% of any profits that may arise.

If Gm thinks they got problems now, wait and see what will happen to
the gm pension fund if they start investing in hedge funds...

at the end of the day gm retirees and future retirees if there are any
left can kiss their pensions goodbye..

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Guest






Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

Nice lot of BS here. Proof that GM is betting the farm on very risky
investments is where?
I don't think you are aware that GM want to continue selling cars, they
do NOT want to file Chapter 11, thay DO control the automotive market
no matter what your opinion is, they will survive as we know them, the
pension fund is safe! What the hell does a Canadian know about it
anyway?


Jake wrote:
Quote:
warning...

GM invested two billion in hedge funds to test the hedge fund market.
and now they are considering investing billions more.

their 90 billion pension fund in investments is less than a seven %
return on the dollars. which they need to replenish the funds pension
outlay.and keep it afloat.

the fund is staring to feel the pinch. because of low interest rates,
and market conditions.

but hedge funds are the highest type of risk for any investor,
unless they have their own printing press,...

gm management should forget about the hedge fund investing..

those funds are not regulated at all, by any government body.

the commission fees run 2% plus 20% of any profits that may arise.

If Gm thinks they got problems now, wait and see what will happen to
the gm pension fund if they start investing in hedge funds...

at the end of the day gm retirees and future retirees if there are any
left can kiss their pensions goodbye..
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Jake
Guest





Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

Just ask gm were the pension funds are invested then you are in for a
surprise...


On 27 Nov 2005 11:23:50 -0800, bite_me_48706@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:
Nice lot of BS here. Proof that GM is betting the farm on very risky
investments is where?
I don't think you are aware that GM want to continue selling cars, they
do NOT want to file Chapter 11, thay DO control the automotive market
no matter what your opinion is, they will survive as we know them, the
pension fund is safe! What the hell does a Canadian know about it
anyway?


Jake wrote:
warning...

GM invested two billion in hedge funds to test the hedge fund market.
and now they are considering investing billions more.

their 90 billion pension fund in investments is less than a seven %
return on the dollars. which they need to replenish the funds pension
outlay.and keep it afloat.

the fund is staring to feel the pinch. because of low interest rates,
and market conditions.

but hedge funds are the highest type of risk for any investor,
unless they have their own printing press,...

gm management should forget about the hedge fund investing..

those funds are not regulated at all, by any government body.

the commission fees run 2% plus 20% of any profits that may arise.

If Gm thinks they got problems now, wait and see what will happen to
the gm pension fund if they start investing in hedge funds...

at the end of the day gm retirees and future retirees if there are any
left can kiss their pensions goodbye..


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James C. Reeves
Guest





Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

Yes, GM deals in hedge funds.

http://www.hedgefundsworld.com/Tmpl/Article.aspx?ID=21616
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John Horner
Guest





Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

bite_me_48706@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Nice lot of BS here. Proof that GM is betting the farm on very risky
investments is where?
I don't think you are aware that GM want to continue selling cars, they
do NOT want to file Chapter 11, thay DO control the automotive market
no matter what your opinion is, they will survive as we know them, the
pension fund is safe! What the hell does a Canadian know about it
anyway?


You must be living on Fantasy Island.

John
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James C. Reeves
Guest





Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Qzuif.766$to5.428@trnddc04...
Quote:
bite_me_48706@yahoo.com wrote:
Nice lot of BS here. Proof that GM is betting the farm on very risky
investments is where?
I don't think you are aware that GM want to continue selling cars, they
do NOT want to file Chapter 11, thay DO control the automotive market
no matter what your opinion is, they will survive as we know them, the
pension fund is safe! What the hell does a Canadian know about it
anyway?


You must be living on Fantasy Island.

John


Must be since most of the financial guys that study the books of companies
are quite worried. Probably more a denial thing, actually. GM isn't beyond
hope. All they need to do is figure out how to pay off ~278 billion dollars
in debt with the ~18 billion dollars they have in the bank while loosing an
additional 6 billion dollars a year. Should be a piece of cake! ;-)
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StingRay
Guest





Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NPidnbjATYWtZRHenZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:
Must be since most of the financial guys that study the books of companies
are quite worried. Probably more a denial thing, actually. GM isn't
beyond hope. All they need to do is figure out how to pay off ~278
billion dollars in debt with the ~18 billion dollars they have in the bank
while loosing an additional 6 billion dollars a year. Should be a piece
of cake! ;-)

James, I am a "financial guy" and I'm puzzled by your debt figure, as well
as your 18 billion dollar figure. I just visited GM's site and pulled off
their SEC Filings. I'll post their Condensed Balance Sheet for September
30, 2005, below. You will note therein that GM had "Total Debt" of $ 446
Billion at that time. But the most important figure is the company's
"Current Debt", which was recorded at $ 74.7Billion. Now if you take a look
at the Assets, you will see "Current Assets" of $ 53.8Billion. To this,
you have to add the Current Assets of Financing and Insurance Operations,
which look like this:
Cash & Cash Equivalents $ 21.4Billion
Investments in Securities 16.5Billion
Finance Receivables - Net 177.0Billion

Loans Held For Sale 17.6Billion
Assets Held For Sale 18.7Billion
-------------------
Current Assets of $ 251.2Billion
Financing & Ins. Ops.

Now James, if we add this figure to the $ 53.8Billion figure above, we find
that as at September 30, 2005, GM had Total Current Assets of $ 305Billion,
which would quite easily handle their Current Debt, which was $ 74.7
Billion. I fail to see the liquidity crisis you seem to allude to. Even if
GM had a temporary liquidity problem at some point, they could raise
Billions of dollars quite quickly by leveraging up some of their Fixed
Assets, which I'm sure would have substantial value over Book Value. So
let's not get out the shovels to bury GM just yet. Her demise is highly
exaggerated and the funeral wake is premature.

GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION AND SUBSIDIARIES



CONDENSED CONSOLIDATED BALANCE SHEETS

(As

restated,

see
Note 1)

Sept. 30, Sept.
30,

2005 Dec. 31, 2004

(Unaudited) 2004
(Unaudited)

---------- -------- ----------

ASSETS (dollars in millions)



Cash and cash equivalents $35,089 $35,993
$37,589

Marketable securities 18,012 21,737
21,034

------ ------ ------

Total cash and marketable securities 53,101 57,730
58,623

Finance receivables - net 177,082 199,600
193,755

Loans held for sale 17,581 19,934
20,116

Accounts and notes receivable (less allowances) 16,285 21,236
17,379

Inventories (less allowances) (Note 4) 14,175 12,247
12,544

Assets held for sale (Note 1)
18,748 - -

Deferred income taxes 28,499 26,241
27,219

Net equipment on operating leases (less

accumulated depreciation) 37,972 34,214
33,016

Equity in net assets of nonconsolidated

affiliates 4,260 6,776
6,637

Property - net 39,616 39,020
37,432

Intangible assets - net (Note 5) 4,799 4,925
4,732

Other assets 56,993 57,680
57,182

------- ------- -------

Total assets $469,111 $479,603
$468,635

======= =======
=======



LIABILITIES AND STOCKHOLDERS' EQUITY



Accounts payable (principally trade) $29,886 $28,830
$26,404

Notes and loans payable 278,232 300,279
290,920

Liabilities related to assets held for sale

(Note 1)
12,319 - -

Postretirement benefits other than pensions 32,101 28,111
31,948

Pensions 9,982 9,455
7,824

Deferred income taxes 6,718 7,078
6,134

Accrued expenses and other liabilities 76,620 77,727
77,417

------- ------- -------

Total liabilities 445,858 451,480
440,647

Minority interests 829 397
369

Stockholders' equity

$1-2/3 par value common stock (outstanding,

565,504,852; 565,132,021; and

564,804,464 shares) 943 942
941

Capital surplus (principally additional

paid-in capital 15,281 15,241
15,209

Retained earnings 9,754 14,428
14,804

------ ------ ------

Subtotal 25,978 30,611
30,954

Accumulated foreign currency translation

adjustments (1,630) (1,194)
(1,678)

Net unrealized gains on derivatives 406 589
215

Net unrealized gains on securities 742 751
610

Minimum pension liability adjustment (3,072) (3,031)
(2,482)

------- ------- -------

Accumulated other comprehensive loss (3,554) (2,885)
(3,335)

------- ------- -------

Total stockholders' equity 22,424 27,726
27,619

------- ------- -------

Total liabilities and stockholders' equity $469,111 $479,603
$468,635

======= =======
=======







Reference should be made to the notes to condensed consolidated financial

statements.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION AND SUBSIDIARIES



SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION TO THE CONDENSED CONSOLIDATED BALANCE SHEETS

(As

restated,

see
Note 1)

Sept. 30, Sept.
30,

2005 Dec. 31, 2004

(Unaudited) 2004
(Unaudited)

---------- -------- ----------

ASSETS (dollars in millions)

Automotive and Other Operations

Cash and cash equivalents $13,695 $13,148
$12,984

Marketable securities 1,437 6,655
7,969

------ ------ ------

Total cash and marketable securities 15,132 19,803
20,953

Accounts and notes receivable (less allowances) 7,800 6,713
6,542

Inventories (less allowances) (Note 4) 13,755 11,717
12,035

Net equipment on operating leases (less

accumulated depreciation) 7,302 6,488
6,764

Deferred income taxes and other current assets 9,859 10,794
10,813

------ ------ ------

Total current assets 53,848 55,515
57,107

Equity in net assets of nonconsolidated

affiliates 4,260 6,776
6,637

Property - net 37,860 37,170
35,583

Intangible assets - net (Note 5) 1,674 1,599
1,445

Deferred income taxes 20,343 17,399
18,086

Other assets 41,101 40,844
41,251

------- ------- -------

Total Automotive and Other Operations assets 159,086 159,303
160,109

Financing and Insurance Operations

Cash and cash equivalents 21,394 22,845
24,605

Investments in securities 16,575 15,082
13,065

Finance receivables - net 177,082 199,600
193,755

Loans held for sale 17,581 19,934
20,116

Assets held for sale (Note 1)
18,748 - -

Net equipment on operating leases (less

accumulated depreciation) 30,670 27,726
26,252

Other assets 27,975 35,113
30,733

Net receivable from Automotive and Other

Operations 3,399 2,426
2,548

------- ------- -------

Total Financing and Insurance Operations

assets 313,424 322,726
311,074

------- ------- -------

Total assets $472,510 $482,029
$471,183

======= =======
=======

LIABILITIES AND STOCKHOLDERS' EQUITY

Automotive and Other Operations

Accounts payable (principally trade) $26,784 $24,257
$23,287

Loans payable 1,509 2,062
2,540

Accrued expenses 43,040 46,147
45,420

Net payable to Financing and Insurance

Operations 3,399 2,426
2,548

------ ------ ------

Total current liabilities 74,732 74,892
73,795

Long-term debt 30,929 30,460
30,065

Postretirement benefits other than pensions 27,380 23,406
27,996

Pensions 9,891 9,371
7,755

Other liabilities and deferred income taxes 15,764 15,657
15,402

------- ------- -------

Total Automotive and Other Operations

liabilities 158,696 153,786
155,013

Financing and Insurance Operations

Accounts payable 3,102 4,573
3,117

Liabilities related to assets held for sale

(Note 1)
12,319 - -

Debt 245,794 267,757
258,315

Other liabilities and deferred income taxes 29,346 27,790
26,750

------- ------- -------

Total Financing and Insurance Operations

liabilities 290,561 300,120
288,182

------- ------- -------

Total liabilities 449,257 453,906
443,195

Minority interests 829 397
369

Total stockholders' equity 22,424 27,726
27,619

------- ------- -------

Total liabilities and stockholders' equity $472,510 $482,029
$471,183

======= =======
=======



The above Supplemental Information is intended to facilitate analysis of
General

Motors Corporation's businesses: (1) Automotive and Other Operations; and
(2)

Financing and Insurance Operations.



Reference should be made to the notes to condensed consolidated financial

statements.
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StingRay
Guest





Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

I regret that the SEC filings of GM's Balance Sheet did not appear as they
did on my screen. If you'd like to see them, they are at this address:

http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/sec/
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No One You Know
Guest





Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

StingRay
Thank you for showing these bigoted idiots the facts regarding General
Motors. Is GM in some trouble? For sure! Can they recover? For sure.
Now Delphi is a horse of a different color. Delphi and the UAW are in
for a tough time of it.

NOYK in Florida
Over 10,000 days at GMPT/GMED/CPC/Chevrolet/Central Foundry Divisions
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StingRay
Guest





Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

"No One You Know" <nooneyouknow34474@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133318935.122315.28160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
StingRay
Thank you for showing these bigoted idiots the facts regarding General
Motors. Is GM in some trouble? For sure! Can they recover? For sure.
Now Delphi is a horse of a different color. Delphi and the UAW are in
for a tough time of it.

NOYK in Florida
Over 10,000 days at GMPT/GMED/CPC/Chevrolet/Central Foundry Divisions


There seems to be a lot of fear mongering going on regarding GM's financial
status. Part of the problem is that a lot of people just seem to like to see
big business fail. Others just naievely believe whatever they read from the
people dissemminating the vicious propaganda and just jump on the fear
bandwagon. And others just haven't taken the time to look at GM's actual
financial statements, or if they have read GM's statements, they just don't
understand them. We also have to remember that financial statements are
merely a snapshot in time of a company's well-being and that company's like
GM often have considerable hidden worth in depreciated assets - worth that
isn't even reflected on the Balance Sheet. Yes, GM is presently losing
money. Can they sustain these losses for a reasonable period of time? Yes.
Are they taking firm action to mitigate these losses and return to a
profitable footing? Yes. Will GM be profitable again before it's too late?
Definitely. Will GM be operating successfully long after we're all dead and
gone? Without a doubt. But they have a lot of hard work, in the short term,
ahead of them. A lot of hard decisions, such as plant closings, have to be
made and followed through on. How can we help them? By providing feedback
whenever the opportunity arises and by buying GM product. We're all
subjective in our taste for our vehicles and we're all passionate about
them. And we're all in this GM NewsGroup for a reason - there is some GM
product that we are or have been passionate about and we are all anxious to
see GM return to strong operating results, so we can continue buying GM for
many years to come.
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Spam Hater
Guest





Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: GM hedge funds Reply with quote

In article <jqqjo11bi33hn88q37lhrd3inr9c49hjdr@4ax.com>,
Jake <jak2@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Quote:
but hedge funds are the highest type of risk for any investor,
unless they have their own printing press,...

gm management should forget about the hedge fund investing..

If that's so they are being very risky with the pension fund.
I'm an active investor and avoid the risky hedge funds, which have had a
mixed record.
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