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old school bmw owner
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:47 am Post subject:
Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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1986 BMW325e 178,000 miles:
First test: FAILED NOx [actual=3.4829(gpm)cutpoint=2.8000(gpm)].
So I changed oil and oil filter,spark plugs and air filter. Ran a full
tank of gas with a bottle of Guaranteed to Pass and put a bottle of
Heet in tank before retest with Chevron 87 octane gas. I ran the car
for over 1/2 hour before retest to get it hot.
Retest results: FAILED NOx [actual dropped to 3.0586(gpm)]AND
FAILED HC [actual=2.0497(gpm)cutpoint=1.8000(gpm)]
My car does burn and leak oil but it starts right up, idles smoothly
and drives great. There is no visable smoke to speak of. My O2 sensor
has been replaced and has +/- 45,000 miles on it. My catalytic
converter was replaced within the past year, but with an inexpensive
universal replacement not with a BMW replacemnt.
I've searched these groups for hours and tried to follow the advice
gleaned but now my head is spinning. I don't want to spend $$$ to have
my engine rebuilt or do other drastic costly measures but I also don't
want to pollute the air.
BTW 2 years ago when my car was last tested my emission #s were
excellent,way under the standards and I only drive +/- 6,000 miles/yr.
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:02 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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| Have you checked for vacuum leaks and the EGR valve? |
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:18 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver. Check
with your local emissions inspection station for more information on the steps
you need to take for that.
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marlinspike
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:06 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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I believe in MD it's only if it's need based...HOWEVER, if you have a
receipt showing a mechanic did $400.01 or more in emissions related work and
it still fails, then you can get a waiver.
Richard
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:qPSdnf4jLfd-4CrcRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
| Quote: | If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver.
Check
with your local emissions inspection station for more information on the
steps
you need to take for that.
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:16 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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[corrected your units; "gpm" is gallons per minute; emission results are
g/mi, grams per mile.]
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, old school bmw owner wrote:
| Quote: | 1986 BMW325e 178,000 miles:
FAILED NOx actual=3.0586 g/mi, cutpoint=2.8000 g/mi
FAILED HC actual=2.0497 g/mi, cutpoint=1.8000 g/mi
My car does burn and leak oil
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Well, there's your answer. Engines that burn oil produce a great deal of
NOx and usually high HC. The emission test cutpoints are set so as to
"catch" oil-burning cars like yours and "ground" them until they're
repaired.
| Quote: | but it starts right up, idles smoothly and drives great.
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That's nice, but the state doesn't care.
| Quote: | There is no visable smoke to speak of.
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Any visible smoke is "to speak of".
| Quote: | My O2 sensor
has been replaced and has +/- 45,000 miles on it.
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....and is probably steadily getting coated with the oil your engine burns.
| Quote: | I don't want to spend $$$ to have my engine rebuilt or do other drastic
costly measures
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Nobody wants to spend $$$, but when a machine is worn out, as yours is,
it's time to repair it or get rid of it. The rules apply equally to those
who drive Hyundais and those who drive BMWs.
| Quote: | BTW 2 years ago when my car was last tested my emission #s were
excellent,way under the standards and I only drive +/- 6,000 miles/yr.
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The standards have probably been tightened since that time, and that's
also how machines work: Eventually, they pass the critical wear point and
can no longer pass emissions.
| Quote: | I don't want to pollute the air
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Are you sure? You wrote:
| Quote: | Ran a full tank of gas with a bottle of Guaranteed to Pass and put a
bottle of Heet in tank before retest My catalytic converter was replaced
within the past year, but with an inexpensive universal replacement not
with a BMW replacemnt.
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This sounds more like the behavior of someone trying to cheat past the
test with a polluting vehicle than of someone who doesn't want to pollute
the air.
DS |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:17 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, James C. Reeves wrote:
| Quote: | If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver.
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....IF you can demonstrate financial hardship, which is going to be rather
difficult to do when the vehicle in question is a BMW. |
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James Masologites
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
| Quote: | [corrected your units; "gpm" is gallons per minute; emission results are
g/mi, grams per mile.]
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, old school bmw owner wrote:
1986 BMW325e 178,000 miles:
FAILED NOx actual=3.0586 g/mi, cutpoint=2.8000 g/mi
FAILED HC actual=2.0497 g/mi, cutpoint=1.8000 g/mi
My car does burn and leak oil
Well, there's your answer. Engines that burn oil produce a great deal of
NOx and usually high HC. The emission test cutpoints are set so as to
"catch" oil-burning cars like yours and "ground" them until they're
repaired.
but it starts right up, idles smoothly and drives great.
That's nice, but the state doesn't care.
There is no visable smoke to speak of.
Any visible smoke is "to speak of".
My O2 sensor
has been replaced and has +/- 45,000 miles on it.
...and is probably steadily getting coated with the oil your engine burns.
I don't want to spend $$$ to have my engine rebuilt or do other drastic
costly measures
Nobody wants to spend $$$, but when a machine is worn out, as yours is,
it's time to repair it or get rid of it. The rules apply equally to those
who drive Hyundais and those who drive BMWs.
BTW 2 years ago when my car was last tested my emission #s were
excellent,way under the standards and I only drive +/- 6,000 miles/yr.
The standards have probably been tightened since that time, and that's
also how machines work: Eventually, they pass the critical wear point and
can no longer pass emissions.
I don't want to pollute the air
Are you sure? You wrote:
Ran a full tank of gas with a bottle of Guaranteed to Pass and put a
bottle of Heet in tank before retest My catalytic converter was replaced
within the past year, but with an inexpensive universal replacement not
with a BMW replacemnt.
This sounds more like the behavior of someone trying to cheat past the
test with a polluting vehicle than of someone who doesn't want to pollute
the air.
DS
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Burning oil does not contribute at all to failing an emissions test, at
least directly. Cars putting out clouds of oil smoke can pass without a
problem. However, your car is suffering from other ailments (which, at
176k miles, isn't anything unexpected).
High combustion temperatures create NOx but reduce HC, while lower
temperatures reduce HC and increase NOx. My point is that your
combustion temperature is not the problem (since your failing both
tests). EGR valves, if your car has one, reduce NOx, so I would check
the condition of that. For HC's, make sure your carb is probably
adjusted. If its too rich, it will create a lot of HC emissions. |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
| Quote: | No, if you can prove that you made an attempt to have the vehicle
repaired and the costs are $400 or above than Maryland will issue you a
waiver, so I have been told.
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Read more closely -- there is a limit to the number of waivers that are
granted for any particular automobile. One cannot go on getting waiver
after waiver after waiver, year after year after year.
| Quote: | It's asinine that one would even believe that the emissions test has
clean air as its goal instead of generating revenue for the state. It is
just more bullshit to fleece the public.
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Those few of us who breathe air believe otherwise. |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Ignasi Palou-Rivera wrote:
| Quote: | Oh, come on. The OP's car is a 1986 BMW 325e! They go for less than a
grand these days.
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Goooood! Then the OP has plenty of money left to fix the damned thing
right. |
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James Masologites
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, James C. Reeves wrote:
If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver.
...IF you can demonstrate financial hardship, which is going to be rather
difficult to do when the vehicle in question is a BMW.
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a 1986 BMW? I'm sure that's worth a pretty penny.
and I dont think its based on financial condition anyway, its not here
in Georgia. |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Dan wrote:
| Quote: | o2 sensor, etc. have little effect on NOx.
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Incorrect. Lean mixtures increase NOx; an O2S that thinks the mixture is
richer than it actually is will drive the mixture lean and increase NOx.
| Quote: | IMHO NOx also gets worse in colder weather...I'm still working on
proving why
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Simple. Colder ambient temperature = denser intake charge = higher
cylinder pressure = higher combustion temperature = increased NOx. |
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Dan
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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On 8 Dec 2004 12:47:20 -0800, "old school bmw owner"
<marclip002@juno.com> wrote:
| Quote: | 1986 BMW325e 178,000 miles:
First test: FAILED NOx [actual=3.4829(gpm)cutpoint=2.8000(gpm)].
So I changed oil and oil filter,spark plugs and air filter. Ran a full
tank of gas with a bottle of Guaranteed to Pass and put a bottle of
Heet in tank before retest with Chevron 87 octane gas. I ran the car
for over 1/2 hour before retest to get it hot.
Retest results: FAILED NOx [actual dropped to 3.0586(gpm)]AND
FAILED HC [actual=2.0497(gpm)cutpoint=1.8000(gpm)]
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I posted about this a few weeks ago...NOx is reduced by cooling down
the engine (which is what coolant does) and also cooling down the
combustion process (which is what EGR does). Flush the cooling
system with coolant flush and distilled water, clean the EGR system,
and if all fails the rhodium catalyst that converts NOx to nitrogen
and oxygen in the catalytic converter is probably shot. Plugs, o2
sensor, etc. have little effect on NOx.
IMHO NOx also gets worse in colder weather...I'm still working on
proving why, it's just a hypothesis right now...my best times for
inspection were always when temps were in the 60s or 70s F...winter
weather was always a disaster for my emissions.
Try checking your O2 sensor to make sure it's still working.
Dan |
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Ignasi Palou-Rivera
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, James C. Reeves wrote:
If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver.
...IF you can demonstrate financial hardship, which is going to be rather
difficult to do when the vehicle in question is a BMW.
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Oh, come on. The OP's car is a 1986 BMW 325e! They go for less than a
grand these days.
--
Ignasi.
(using SPAM trap e-mail address) |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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I concur with Daniel. Your car has a oil consumption problem and the
failed test is probably doing you a favour. You need to get the
problem fixed or your O2 sensor and catalytic converter will be shot
before long and your car won't run at all after that. It's not a
cosmetic problem.
Were your old spark plugs coated with oil? Where is your oil leak?
You're right in that a fix could likely involve new valve guides and/or
valve stem oil seals which require removing the cylinder head.
Unfortunately, while these cars are great to drive, once they reach the
age where components normally wear out they are just as costly as other
cars to keep running. OTOH, once you fix the worn parts the car may
well run great for another 100k. These cars aren't worth much at this
point so I think your options are limited. You either fix it yourself
or bite the bullet and have a decent garage do it for you. Consider
the other alternative of buying a new car or another used car with its
own list of repair or maintenance issues.
Michael |
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Rita Ä Berkowitz
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Maryland State Emissions test failure-any suggestions? |
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0412081916520.7101@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
| Quote: | On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, James C. Reeves wrote:
If the cost of repair exceeds a certain amount, you can get a waver.
...IF you can demonstrate financial hardship, which is going to be rather
difficult to do when the vehicle in question is a BMW.
|
No, if you can prove that you made an attempt to have the vehicle repaired
and the costs are $400 or above than Maryland will issue you a waiver, so I
have been told. It's asinine that one would even believe that the emissions
test has clean air as its goal instead of generating revenue for the state.
It is just more bullshit to fleece the public.
Rita |
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