| Author |
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S.A.
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:54 am Post subject:
SMG or not. |
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Hey, so I'm in the market for a new car and have my sights set on the
M3. I'm thinking about getting it with SMG II, and would like some
experience/opionion on it. The main reason for the SMG would be since I
am not familiar w/ driving a manual (but I should have the basics down
by the weekend as I'm learning :-) ), but also, although i do most of
my driving for the commute to work (about 55 miles, mostly on the major
highways), I do also drive around in the city on the weekends and
sometimes get stuck in rush hour traffic.
Say if i do pick up the knacks for driving stick by the weekend, before
I get my M3, should i get the manual? or because of the limited
experience I should just get the SMG (i dont feel like busting up the
manual tranny due to my lack of experience).
Im just looking for some feedback, thanks!
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TonyK
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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"S.A." <sa20174@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125363282.407212.326070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hey, so I'm in the market for a new car and have my sights set on the
M3. I'm thinking about getting it with SMG II, and would like some
experience/opionion on it. The main reason for the SMG would be since I
am not familiar w/ driving a manual (but I should have the basics down
by the weekend as I'm learning :-) ), but also, although i do most of
my driving for the commute to work (about 55 miles, mostly on the major
highways), I do also drive around in the city on the weekends and
sometimes get stuck in rush hour traffic.
Say if i do pick up the knacks for driving stick by the weekend, before
I get my M3, should i get the manual? or because of the limited
experience I should just get the SMG (i dont feel like busting up the
manual tranny due to my lack of experience).
Im just looking for some feedback, thanks!
|
Don't buy an SMG without trying it and make sure the sales person knows how
to drive with an SMG box and explains the techniques properly.
A few pointers when you try it. Don't try the auto-mode first (settings
A1-5). Make sure its in sequential mode (S) and set the drivelogic to S3 to
begin with. When pulling away squeeze the throttle gently then accellerate.
As you change gear lift the throttle very lightly, literally flex your toes
or relax your ankle a bit. Don't move your foot. The first few miles will be
very jerky and uncomfortable but you should get used to it fairly quickly.
Then up the drivelogic to 5, you should notice the speed of the changes
increases, I find S5 the most comfortable. Finally hit the Sport button as
well. Try a few down changes whilst accellerating and it should blip the
throttle nicely for you. Heal & toe into a few corners and it becomes
addictive, especially at high revs.
I doubt they'll let you play in S6 on a test drive as this means switching
off DSC which could be a bit of a handful if you're not used to the car. But
S6 makes the car perform as it should with no "interference" from an
overzealous DSC.
SMG is not for everyone. There's a misconceptions its an automatic. Its not.
Its the same box as the manual just with hydraulic actuators to select the
gear and engage the clutch plate. Driving in automode can be attrocious but
try it.
Try it and see. I've had both and prefer the SMG, others hate it. A lot
depends on what you use the car for. For me its purely driving pleasure, no
commutes, just fun. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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In article <U42dnWR8d9hkZo7eRVnygw@eclipse.net.uk>,
TonyK <aenuff@bobs.com> wrote:
| Quote: | SMG is not for everyone. There's a misconceptions its an automatic. Its
not.
|
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
| Quote: | Its the same box as the manual just with hydraulic actuators to select
the gear and engage the clutch plate. Driving in automode can be
attrocious but try it.
|
Audi have shown that this type of transmission can be made to work
tolerably well in auto mode, and BMW will be adopting this twin clutch
system in a few years. Goodness only knows why it's taken them so long.
--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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zerouali
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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| Quote: | Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
'Coz it's called a sequential manual gearbox? ;-) |
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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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Just curious. With what gearbox did you pass your driving test? If
automatic, are you just allowed to drive manual in your country (USA??).
In the UK you cannot. Pass with auto you are licensed to drive auto only.
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"S.A." <sa20174@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125363282.407212.326070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[...]
| Quote: | I
am not familiar w/ driving a manual
[...]
Say if i do pick up the knacks for driving stick by the weekend, before
[...] |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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In article <df1c3k$na$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
zerouali <zeroualinospam@freeuk.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of
how it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
'Coz it's called a sequential manual gearbox? ;-)
|
Don't care what they call it - it's an auto with a degree of manual
control.
Think Honda were one of the first to produced a self shifting synchro box,
but they called it an auto. ;-)
--
*When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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R. Mark Clayton
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4da28ab3b9dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <df1c3k$na$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
zerouali <zeroualinospam@freeuk.com> wrote:
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of
how it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
'Coz it's called a sequential manual gearbox? ;-)
Don't care what they call it - it's an auto with a degree of manual
control.
Think Honda were one of the first to produced a self shifting synchro box,
but they called it an auto. ;-)
--
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
|
What a lot of squabbling.
A [fully] manual gearbox as found on most UK cars allows any gear to be
selected from neutral and vice-versa. Since about 1948 they have normally
incorporated synchro-mesh (small brass cogs with limited friction which help
synchronise the main gears when changing). The gears run on keyways and
only the cogs of the gear selected are actually in mesh.
A [fully] automatic box uses an arrangement of planet and sun gears,
originally to provide three basic ratios (with the assembly locked, with the
cage free to rotate and with only the planetary gears free to rotate). A
fluid flywheel / hydraulic clutch completes the assembly and allows the car
to move off from stationery. The hydraulic arrangement may also provide
some flexibility in gearing (torque converter) and a take off of hydraulic
pressure to operate the gearbox. More recent boxes have more gears and
solenoids can be used to activate gear changes, however the original Borg
Warner and Powerglide boxes had no electronics and the box worked
automatically changing gear in response to road speed, power and load.
An SMG box is basically a development of the continuous mesh gearbox found
on most motorcycles. All the gears are in mesh all the time, and it works
by a dog clutches which can select one gear (or none) at a time, the rest
simply rotate around the shaft. Its main advantage is lightweight (hence
its use in F1), but the disadvantage is that [usually] you have to pass
through all the gears to get to neutral (a pain after an emergency stop on a
bike). It is a relatively simple matter to automate selection by paddles
using solenoids (on a bike the selector is mechanical and usually operated
directly into the gear box with the left foot). There is nothing inside the
box to make it change gear, so IMHO it is a manual which can be operated
[automatically] by electrical means. |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
| Quote: | Just curious. With what gearbox did you pass your driving test? If
automatic, are you just allowed to drive manual in your country (USA??).
In the UK you cannot. Pass with auto you are licensed to drive auto only.
|
Nah, it doesn't work that way here. Driving tests are a joke. You
could take your test in an automatic and be out on the road (badly)
driving a stick shift that afternoon.
--
-Fred W
Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here:
<http://users.adelphia.net/~fredwills/> |
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jerri
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:46:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <df1c3k$na$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
zerouali <zeroualinospam@freeuk.com> wrote:
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of
how it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
'Coz it's called a sequential manual gearbox? ;-)
Don't care what they call it - it's an auto with a degree of manual
control.
And "THEY" don't care what "YOU" call it. BTW: THEY made it, not you!
Think Honda were one of the first to produced a self shifting synchro box,
but they called it an auto. ;-) |
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Somebody.
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4da27272b9dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <U42dnWR8d9hkZo7eRVnygw@eclipse.net.uk>,
TonyK <aenuff@bobs.com> wrote:
SMG is not for everyone. There's a misconceptions its an automatic. Its
not.
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
|
Because the term "automatic" has been applied for 50 years to a transmission
featuring a fluid link / torque converter that allows arbitrary amounts of
slip at low revs. It's a different thing and a different experience than an
"automatically" engaged clutch or pair of clutches run by hydraulics and
electronics.
So in practice, the school teacher that hops in her husband's SMG eqiupped
M3 expecting it to shift and act like her automatic equipped SLK is going to
be surprised.
It's "automatic" in the sense that it does stuff automatically for you, but
calling an SMG an automatic makes no more sense than saying that a minivan
has a manual transmission if you push the button for manual mode and have to
shift the gears yourself.
-Russ. |
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TonyK
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4da27272b9dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <U42dnWR8d9hkZo7eRVnygw@eclipse.net.uk>,
TonyK <aenuff@bobs.com> wrote:
SMG is not for everyone. There's a misconceptions its an automatic. Its
not.
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
|
All in you HO of course ;-)
Personally I really don't care. What annoys me (and I think a lot of other
M3 owners in general) is when someone whinges about "how difficult" the M3
is to drive etc etc. If you want an auto buy one, go get a 330 and you'll be
far more comfortable and still have good performance. I also don't like to
think of people being mis-sold a car as expensive as an M3 by the sales
muppets in most dealers.
But, in answer to your comment. BMW say its manual, DVLA class it as manual
and so do insurance companies. Oh, plus its the same gear box and the stick
manual. So, whatever you may think is up to you and thats fine. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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In article <hbq8h11q64s9bbf260ljnk8d21mmq6r9dm@4ax.com>,
jerri <jerri77@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <df1c3k$na$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
zerouali <zeroualinospam@freeuk.com> wrote:
Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of
how it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
'Coz it's called a sequential manual gearbox? ;-)
Don't care what they call it - it's an auto with a degree of manual
control.
And "THEY" don't care what "YOU" call it. BTW: THEY made it, not you!
|
Oh dear - another auto driver who thinks because it has paddles it isn't
an auto.
--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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In article <R3_Qe.9285$p5.3383@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Somebody. <somebody.@spamout.russdoucet.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
Because the term "automatic" has been applied for 50 years to a
transmission featuring a fluid link / torque converter that allows
arbitrary amounts of slip at low revs. It's a different thing and a
different experience than an "automatically" engaged clutch or pair of
clutches run by hydraulics and electronics.
|
So where does a CVT fit in? Is that a manual transmission too because it
doesn't have a torque convertor?
| Quote: | So in practice, the school teacher that hops in her husband's SMG
eqiupped M3 expecting it to shift and act like her automatic equipped
SLK is going to be surprised.
|
She'd be much more surprised if she tried to drive a manual...
| Quote: | It's "automatic" in the sense that it does stuff automatically for you,
but calling an SMG an automatic makes no more sense than saying that a
minivan has a manual transmission if you push the button for manual mode
and have to shift the gears yourself.
|
That's exactly what an SMG does. Tell me, is it possible to stall an SMG?
Over-rev it? Start in an unsuitable gear? No? It's an auto.
--
*Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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In article <6qednZ2dnZ0A6F3UnZ2dnSHvid6dnZ2dRVnypJ2dnZ0@eclipse.net.uk>,
TonyK <aenuff@bobs.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Any gearbox that can change gear on its own is an auto - regardless of how
it works. Wonder why SMG owners seek to deny this?
All in you HO of course ;-)
|
Not IMHO - it can change gear on its own, so it's an auto. There were
several transmissions round years ago with no manually operated clutch,
and these were referred to as semi-autos. But the gears themselves were
selected manually and mechanically.
| Quote: | Personally I really don't care. What annoys me (and I think a lot of
other M3 owners in general) is when someone whinges about "how
difficult" the M3 is to drive etc etc. If you want an auto buy one, go
get a 330 and you'll be far more comfortable and still have good
performance. I also don't like to think of people being mis-sold a car
as expensive as an M3 by the sales muppets in most dealers.
|
I don't find an SMG M3 - or any other car with a similar gearbox -
difficult to drive, just get annoyed that when not in a hurry, the auto
function doesn't change gear as smoothly as I can with a true manual. It
changes like a learner driver on his first lesson - despite all the
processing power of the ECU.
| Quote: | But, in answer to your comment. BMW say its manual, DVLA class it as
manual and so do insurance companies. Oh, plus its the same gear box and
the stick manual. So, whatever you may think is up to you and thats fine.
|
So the stick manual can change gear by itself?
--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.*
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:
Re: SMG or not. |
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Question is, would an auto-licensed driver (UK) be allowed to drive SMG?
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4da29a0678dave@davenoise.co.uk...
[...]
| Quote: |
Oh dear - another auto driver who thinks because it has paddles it isn't
an auto.
--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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