| Author |
Message |
marcia
Guest
|
 Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject:
1999 Toyota Tercel |
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|
I leased my two door tercel right off the lot back in 1999. I am the only
driver and bought it when the lease was up in 2003. This past Fall I noticed
the car looked slanted, and by that I mean when I looked at it face on the
car looked to lean towards one side as if there was not enough air in one
tire. I brought it to 3 different mechanics all of which confirmed the same
thing, my shocks were shot. I had to change the entire suspension. The car
has 102,000 km on it. Apparently this is a pretty big deal for a 5 year old
Tercel, I was wondering if anyone else had to change their supsension on a 5
year old toyota?
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Ray O
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
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|
"marcia" <marcia@cae.com> wrote in message news:cokl4l$lvf$1@dns3.cae.ca...
| Quote: | I leased my two door tercel right off the lot back in 1999. I am the only
driver and bought it when the lease was up in 2003. This past Fall I
noticed
the car looked slanted, and by that I mean when I looked at it face on the
car looked to lean towards one side as if there was not enough air in one
tire. I brought it to 3 different mechanics all of which confirmed the
same
thing, my shocks were shot. I had to change the entire suspension. The car
has 102,000 km on it. Apparently this is a pretty big deal for a 5 year
old
Tercel, I was wondering if anyone else had to change their supsension on a
5
year old toyota?
|
AFAIK, the Tercel is equipped with struts, not shocks. When you say the
"entire suspension," do you mean to say that all 4 of the struts were
replaced or were springs, control arms, ball joints, links, etc. replaced as
well? The entire suspension includes all of these parts and if the entire
suspension was indeed replaced, you most likely paid for unnecessary work.
It is possible that you needed struts and perhaps springs. In the cases
where I have seen uneven ride height, the vehicle carried heavy loads on one
side on a regular basis, like a service person who carried heavy tools or
parts; or a driver or passengers who are in the upper percentiles in weight;
or the vehicle was driven on very rough or unpaved roads.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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Bruce L. Bergman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:40:20 -0500, "marcia" <marcia@cae.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I leased my two door tercel right off the lot back in 1999. I am the only
driver and bought it when the lease was up in 2003. This past Fall I noticed
the car looked slanted, and by that I mean when I looked at it face on the
car looked to lean towards one side as if there was not enough air in one
tire. I brought it to 3 different mechanics all of which confirmed the same
thing, my shocks were shot. I had to change the entire suspension. The car
has 102,000 km on it. Apparently this is a pretty big deal for a 5 year old
Tercel, I was wondering if anyone else had to change their supsension on a 5
year old toyota?
|
What all did you change? Shocks are a normal wear item, 5 years
isn't too outrageous. And on McPherson Strut type suspensions the
shocks also act as ball joints and active wheel locating members, they
wear a bit faster.
The steering linkage, rubber suspension bushings and the ball
joints/suspension swivel bits should go at least 100K to 150K Miles
before you need to go through and replace them. And the springs
themselves should be lifetime unless you really abuse the car.
The deciding factor is rust - if you live in Snow Land where the
roads are heavily salted, and you don't keep the undercarriage rinsed
off and painted/rustproofed consistently, all bets are off.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
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|
You already paid way too much for that car, by purchasing it at
lease termination. Why put more big bucks into a six year old
$4,000 car with that kind of mileage? Sell it and put the
proceeds and the repair cost into a new vehicle, or at least one
with lower mileage, WBMA
mike hunt
marcia wrote:
| Quote: |
I leased my two door tercel right off the lot back in 1999. I am the only
driver and bought it when the lease was up in 2003. This past Fall I noticed
the car looked slanted, and by that I mean when I looked at it face on the
car looked to lean towards one side as if there was not enough air in one
tire. I brought it to 3 different mechanics all of which confirmed the same
thing, my shocks were shot. I had to change the entire suspension. The car
has 102,000 km on it. Apparently this is a pretty big deal for a 5 year old
Tercel, I was wondering if anyone else had to change their supsension on a 5
year old toyota? |
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HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:02 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
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|
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:40:20 -0500, marcia wrote:
| Quote: | I leased my two door tercel right off the lot back in 1999. I am the only
driver and bought it when the lease was up in 2003. This past Fall I noticed
the car looked slanted, and by that I mean when I looked at it face on the
car looked to lean towards one side as if there was not enough air in one
tire. I brought it to 3 different mechanics all of which confirmed the same
thing, my shocks were shot. I had to change the entire suspension. The car
has 102,000 km on it. Apparently this is a pretty big deal for a 5 year old
Tercel, I was wondering if anyone else had to change their supsension on a 5
year old toyota?
|
Wow! Mine was 10 years old and all I did was replace the shocks. BTW, I am
a fairly good sized guy (um...2X, let's not say any more)
I put 30,000 miles on it without having to replace the springs! |
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Ray O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:03 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41AE426A.D3D11D5C@mailcity.com...
| Quote: | You already paid way too much for that car, by purchasing it at
lease termination. Why put more big bucks into a six year old
$4,000 car with that kind of mileage? Sell it and put the
proceeds and the repair cost into a new vehicle, or at least one
with lower mileage, WBMA
mike hunt
I don't think 102,000 km = 63,000 miles, is excessive on a 6-year old car. |
Assuming the rest of the car is in decent condition, then it is probably
worth the price of 4 struts. It is not worth the price of the entire
suspension but then you and I both know that there's no way it needed an
entire suspension unless the car was a stunt double for the Dukes of Hazzard
or the Lee Majors stuntman series.
Would you get rid of the Pinto if it needed 4 shocks?
I know that you always say that any vehicle, properly maintained, will last
a long time and to a certain extent, I agree with you. Since you were at a
multi-line dealership, I'm sure you are aware of the different warranty
expenses for different brands and models. I don't know what the difference
is today, but warranty expense PNVS for a domestic brand used to be about 10
times that of Toyota.
I'm sure the domestics and even some historically poor quality performers
like Hyundai have come a long ways in initial and long-term quality. They
had nowhere to go but up.
If you take a domestic brand's lower acquisition cost compared with a
comparable Toyota, i.e. a Ford 500 vs. Avalon or Camry, and factor in
routine maintenance, then the domestic will probably come out ahead in that
equation. The equation gets a little hazier if you factor in repairs beyond
the warranty period and resale value.
For out-of-warranty repairs, a domestic is probablyno so bad that it will
need an engine or tranny like people in this ng fear but it will likely need
some other minor or moderate repairs. I've seen friends with domestics
need PS pumps, AC compressors, wheel bearing which required whole hubs to
repair, etc. To be fair, Toyotas will sometimes need this stuff but a lot
less likely. So add in the cost of that moderate or minor repairs, and the
inconvenience of bringing it in, then the domestic looks less attractive.
On a dollar to dollar comparison, I'll bet that comparable domestic and
Japanese models are pretty close over 5 or 10 years. Factor in the down
time, inconvenience, confidence in your transportation, and fit and finish,
then Toyotas start to look more attractive.
The Korean brands are the winners in the dollar-to dollar competition,
especially with the long warranties they needed to offer in order to entice
customers to trust them again. Their fit and finish and reliability is
getting better, but still IMO, below even Ford and GM. It's hard to measure
"niceness" and "cheapness" but the materials in the Hyundia XG did not seem
as nice as in a domestic or Japanese make although all the bells and
whistles were there.
The difference in fit and finish is something that IMO your average American
driver is not aware of. On a quantitative basis, an average Toyota is head
and shoulders above an average domestic. One of my monthly duties used to
be writing product reports, and we would have to go out and measure stuff on
certain Toyotas and domestics. One month we measured the consistency of the
gap between body panels on brand new and 3-year old Toyotas and domestic
brands. Toyotas had a gap of 3 to 5 mm +/- 1 mm whether brand new or 3
years old, while the domestic brands had gaps of 4 to 8 mm +/- 3 to 4 mm.
Does the average soccer mom know this difference? Probably not. Can they
perceive the difference in wind and engine noise? More likely. Is there a
prestige factor in buying a Toyota or Sony over a domestic brand? probably.
I guess purchasing a Toyota is like purchasing fine wine or fine furniture.
You can get a buzz on cheaper wine or sit on Ikea furniture, and there is a
market for both low, medium, and finer products.
I like to tinker to stay in practice. People give me weird looks when I say
that I did a brake job on my LS 400 or a friend's Focus instead of bringing
it to a shop. I guess Lexus owners are not known as DIY-ers. I just did
some PM on a friend's 2000 top-of-the-line Windstar, and running gear-wise,
it is in good condition, but there was a lot of stuff that made me happy
with our 97 Avalon, 2000 LS, and 2004 Sequoia.
This is just anecdotal evidence and not a scientific study, but here's what
I noticed on the Windstar: All of the seats except for the power seats were
almost impossible to move on the seat tracks. I cleaned and greased all of
them to free them up. I have never done any maintenance on a seat
adjustment mechanism on a Toyota. The PS pump and engine noise in general
was very loud, even louder than our '93 Previa (where you sit on top of the
engine) was. He is getting 14 mpg around town. I don't know what the
Windstar's engine displacement or horsepower is, but our Sequoia gets that
around town, weighing about 1,500 pounds more a lot more quietly.
When I worked on the friend's Focus front pads and passenger side mirror
assembly, I could not believe how many different sockets I had out. I used
stuff that I haven't touched in years. On a Toyota, you can do almost
anything with a #2 phillips and a 10, 12, & 14 mm wrench. Does soccer mom
care about using all the tools, absolutely not! ;-( The little bits of
thoughtfulness in designing a car is one of those intangibles that have me
spending a little more for a Toyota. I'll spend time cleaning and lubing
the ratchet mechanism in my Snap-on ratchets, actually use air tool oil in
air tools, and put anti-seize on studs and on the back of alloy wheels so
that Toyota thoughtfulness kind of matches my personality.
BTW, the calipers on the Focus were much better design than on previous
Fords where you have to knock out the part that looks like a roll pin with
rubber in it!
I'll admit that the LS is a PITA to work on because everything is under some
shield or aerodynamic cover. They should have stuck with their Toyota
methods instead of trying to emulate their European premium brands. The
good news is that I haven't had to peek under the covers to often!
Happy motoring!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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HachiRoku
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:03:59 -0600, Ray O wrote:
<Most of this Rambling Rant snipped ;)>
| Quote: |
I'll admit that the LS is a PITA to work on because everything is under some
shield or aerodynamic cover. They should have stuck with their Toyota
methods instead of trying to emulate their European premium brands. The
good news is that I haven't had to peek under the covers to often!
Happy motoring!
|
I have talked about my many Toyotas. I have upgraded the stereos in every
single one of them, starting with a (gulp) 8-track player in the '74 KE25.
I finally got my Supra, and while it is in the garage where I work getting
a timing belt, I have been installing the stereo (no, not an 8-track! CD
with EQ and either a 75WPC or 100WPC amp 4 channels with Thumper in the
rear!)
I have to do some serious thinking here! All the usual places I pass the
wiring through are blocked! By METAL!!! I thought my 'hachi' was built
like a tank compared to other Toyotas, Holy Crap! I was having my after
dinner ciggie, and thinking to myself, "I wonder why they didn't market
this as a Lexus?" It certainly has a lot of the earmarks. Of all my Toys,
it is by far the best built I have seen. So, I have to come up with some
'creative wiring'!~
Even taking the radio 'surround' was an experience: it's half the dash!
Now, to find a set of MB Quarts that'll fit! (it had the Live Sound, but
the speakers are toast...) |
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Ray O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:51 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
"HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:fXurd.4148$UU1.346@trndny04...
| Quote: |
I have talked about my many Toyotas. I have upgraded the stereos in every
single one of them, starting with a (gulp) 8-track player in the '74 KE25.
I finally got my Supra, and while it is in the garage where I work getting
a timing belt, I have been installing the stereo (no, not an 8-track! CD
with EQ and either a 75WPC or 100WPC amp 4 channels with Thumper in the
rear!)
I have to do some serious thinking here! All the usual places I pass the
wiring through are blocked! By METAL!!! I thought my 'hachi' was built
like a tank compared to other Toyotas, Holy Crap! I was having my after
dinner ciggie, and thinking to myself, "I wonder why they didn't market
this as a Lexus?" It certainly has a lot of the earmarks. Of all my Toys,
it is by far the best built I have seen. So, I have to come up with some
'creative wiring'!~
Even taking the radio 'surround' was an experience: it's half the dash!
Now, to find a set of MB Quarts that'll fit! (it had the Live Sound, but
the speakers are toast...)
|
Time to lift the carpets and run the wires along the hump!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:35 pm Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
Considering 15K is average miles, you are correct. 63K
is low for the model year. Obviously my assumption was miles,
not kilometers, however.
Toyota does indeed build good reliable vehicles but from what I
see I can not agree with your assessment that Toyota has an
overall ownership advantage. From what we see in our business it
is Ford Motor company vehicles that have that advantage. We
generally deal with vehicles purchased within the past five
years. We do not see domestics breaking done at unreasonably low
mileage vis
v Toyota or other imports as you seem to believe.
When replacing vehicles fleets purchasing agents look at the
overall cost of ownership, over a period of five years, and in
the majority of cases at average mileage about twice that of the
15K US mileage with many driven up to as high as 300K or more and
some like courier cars driven to 100K in a year or less.
I can't speak for costs in other countries but in the US our
records, from over many years, clearly show that when the overall
cost of ownership in term of acquisition, insurance, preventive
maintenance, repair and parts as well as vehicle replacement, and
yes down time costs are considered, Ford is number one with GM a
close second. Of late even the Korean cars do better in that
calculation than do any of the Japanese manufactures with the
European manufactures coming in last.. If an other brand was
superior the fleet agents would be buying that brand
As I say drive and price them all then decide which best suits
your particular needs and budget. I could not care less what one
buys, it is their money.
By the way my Pinto is no longer a daily driver, just part of my
growing collection of the vehicles I have decide to keep. With a
collector car one pays whatever it costs to keep it in good
condition. I paid $1,500 in 1981 for a repaint, nearly the
$1,900 it cost when new. I paid $500 for a used $75 hydraulic
pump for my '41 Continental and $220 to have it rebuilt ;)
mike hunt
Ray O wrote:
| Quote: |
MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41AE426A.D3D11D5C@mailcity.com...
You already paid way too much for that car, by purchasing it at
lease termination. Why put more big bucks into a six year old
$4,000 car with that kind of mileage? Sell it and put the
proceeds and the repair cost into a new vehicle, or at least one
with lower mileage, WBMA
mike hunt
I don't think 102,000 km = 63,000 miles, is excessive on a 6-year old car.
Assuming the rest of the car is in decent condition, then it is probably
worth the price of 4 struts. It is not worth the price of the entire
suspension but then you and I both know that there's no way it needed an
entire suspension unless the car was a stunt double for the Dukes of Hazzard
or the Lee Majors stuntman series.
Would you get rid of the Pinto if it needed 4 shocks?
I know that you always say that any vehicle, properly maintained, will last
a long time and to a certain extent, I agree with you. Since you were at a
multi-line dealership, I'm sure you are aware of the different warranty
expenses for different brands and models. I don't know what the difference
is today, but warranty expense PNVS for a domestic brand used to be about 10
times that of Toyota.
I'm sure the domestics and even some historically poor quality performers
like Hyundai have come a long ways in initial and long-term quality. They
had nowhere to go but up.
If you take a domestic brand's lower acquisition cost compared with a
comparable Toyota, i.e. a Ford 500 vs. Avalon or Camry, and factor in
routine maintenance, then the domestic will probably come out ahead in that
equation. The equation gets a little hazier if you factor in repairs beyond
the warranty period and resale value.
For out-of-warranty repairs, a domestic is probablyno so bad that it will
need an engine or tranny like people in this ng fear but it will likely need
some other minor or moderate repairs. I've seen friends with domestics
need PS pumps, AC compressors, wheel bearing which required whole hubs to
repair, etc. To be fair, Toyotas will sometimes need this stuff but a lot
less likely. So add in the cost of that moderate or minor repairs, and the
inconvenience of bringing it in, then the domestic looks less attractive.
On a dollar to dollar comparison, I'll bet that comparable domestic and
Japanese models are pretty close over 5 or 10 years. Factor in the down
time, inconvenience, confidence in your transportation, and fit and finish,
then Toyotas start to look more attractive.
The Korean brands are the winners in the dollar-to dollar competition,
especially with the long warranties they needed to offer in order to entice
customers to trust them again. Their fit and finish and reliability is
getting better, but still IMO, below even Ford and GM. It's hard to measure
"niceness" and "cheapness" but the materials in the Hyundia XG did not seem
as nice as in a domestic or Japanese make although all the bells and
whistles were there.
The difference in fit and finish is something that IMO your average American
driver is not aware of. On a quantitative basis, an average Toyota is head
and shoulders above an average domestic. One of my monthly duties used to
be writing product reports, and we would have to go out and measure stuff on
certain Toyotas and domestics. One month we measured the consistency of the
gap between body panels on brand new and 3-year old Toyotas and domestic
brands. Toyotas had a gap of 3 to 5 mm +/- 1 mm whether brand new or 3
years old, while the domestic brands had gaps of 4 to 8 mm +/- 3 to 4 mm.
Does the average soccer mom know this difference? Probably not. Can they
perceive the difference in wind and engine noise? More likely. Is there a
prestige factor in buying a Toyota or Sony over a domestic brand? probably.
I guess purchasing a Toyota is like purchasing fine wine or fine furniture.
You can get a buzz on cheaper wine or sit on Ikea furniture, and there is a
market for both low, medium, and finer products.
I like to tinker to stay in practice. People give me weird looks when I say
that I did a brake job on my LS 400 or a friend's Focus instead of bringing
it to a shop. I guess Lexus owners are not known as DIY-ers. I just did
some PM on a friend's 2000 top-of-the-line Windstar, and running gear-wise,
it is in good condition, but there was a lot of stuff that made me happy
with our 97 Avalon, 2000 LS, and 2004 Sequoia.
This is just anecdotal evidence and not a scientific study, but here's what
I noticed on the Windstar: All of the seats except for the power seats were
almost impossible to move on the seat tracks. I cleaned and greased all of
them to free them up. I have never done any maintenance on a seat
adjustment mechanism on a Toyota. The PS pump and engine noise in general
was very loud, even louder than our '93 Previa (where you sit on top of the
engine) was. He is getting 14 mpg around town. I don't know what the
Windstar's engine displacement or horsepower is, but our Sequoia gets that
around town, weighing about 1,500 pounds more a lot more quietly.
When I worked on the friend's Focus front pads and passenger side mirror
assembly, I could not believe how many different sockets I had out. I used
stuff that I haven't touched in years. On a Toyota, you can do almost
anything with a #2 phillips and a 10, 12, & 14 mm wrench. Does soccer mom
care about using all the tools, absolutely not! ;-( The little bits of
thoughtfulness in designing a car is one of those intangibles that have me
spending a little more for a Toyota. I'll spend time cleaning and lubing
the ratchet mechanism in my Snap-on ratchets, actually use air tool oil in
air tools, and put anti-seize on studs and on the back of alloy wheels so
that Toyota thoughtfulness kind of matches my personality.
BTW, the calipers on the Focus were much better design than on previous
Fords where you have to knock out the part that looks like a roll pin with
rubber in it!
I'll admit that the LS is a PITA to work on because everything is under some
shield or aerodynamic cover. They should have stuck with their Toyota
methods instead of trying to emulate their European premium brands. The
good news is that I haven't had to peek under the covers to often!
Happy motoring!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ray O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
|
|
<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41AF3659.DE7AA387@mailcity.com...
| Quote: | Toyota does indeed build good reliable vehicles but from what I
see I can not agree with your assessment that Toyota has an
overall ownership advantage. From what we see in our business it
is Ford Motor company vehicles that have that advantage. We
generally deal with vehicles purchased within the past five
years. We do not see domestics breaking done at unreasonably low
mileage vis
v Toyota or other imports as you seem to believe.
When replacing vehicles fleets purchasing agents look at the
overall cost of ownership, over a period of five years, and in
the majority of cases at average mileage about twice that of the
15K US mileage with many driven up to as high as 300K or more and
some like courier cars driven to 100K in a year or less.
Mike, |
There was a typo in my earlier post. It was supposed to read "For
out-of-warranty repairs, a domestic is probably not so bad that it will need
an engine or tranny like people in this ng fear but it will likely need some
other minor or moderate repairs. " the "t" in the "not" was left out. I am
not asserting that engines and trannies are likely to fail on a domestic as
soon as it is out of warranty.
I think we're agreeing but saying the same thing differently. For a fleet
operator, Ford or GM is probably the way to go. All those rental car
companies, utility fleets, public safety, etc. can't be making poor dollars
and cents business decisions. Like you say, fortunately for the Japanese
and European makers, a lot of consumers take things other than pure cost of
ownership into consideration when making their purchase decision that fleet
operators don't factor in as heavily. Things like comfort, drivability, fit
and finish, performance, style, prestige, etc. will entice people to pay a
premium.
Also for a domestic, my observation is that in the 4 to 8 year old range,
stuff that doesn't affact the driveabilty is more likely to have problems
than in a Toyota. Stuff like loose trim, interior lights, power
accessories, etc. seems to be a little more common. This stuff doesn't
affect the useability of the car so people ignore it rather than pay to have
it fixed. After 8 to 10 years, that durability gap seems to narrow a little
bit.
| Quote: | By the way my Pinto is no longer a daily driver, just part of my
growing collection of the vehicles I have decide to keep. With a
collector car one pays whatever it costs to keep it in good
condition. I paid $1,500 in 1981 for a repaint, nearly the
$1,900 it cost when new. I paid $500 for a used $75 hydraulic
pump for my '41 Continental and $220 to have it rebuilt ;)
I'm glad I haven't gotten into collector cars yet because there are too many |
I'd want! The '41 Continental is a beautiful car, assusming it is in good
shape then the money was well spent.
One of the less common collector cars I saw was owned by a former AMC
dealer - a 4-door Matador with the boxy nose with the original MSO.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
| Quote: |
Ray O wrote:
I don't think 102,000 km = 63,000 miles, is excessive on a 6-year old
car.
Assuming the rest of the car is in decent condition, then it is probably
worth the price of 4 struts. It is not worth the price of the entire
suspension but then you and I both know that there's no way it needed an
entire suspension unless the car was a stunt double for the Dukes of
Hazzard
or the Lee Majors stuntman series.
Would you get rid of the Pinto if it needed 4 shocks?
I know that you always say that any vehicle, properly maintained, will
last
a long time and to a certain extent, I agree with you. Since you were at
a
multi-line dealership, I'm sure you are aware of the different warranty
expenses for different brands and models. I don't know what the
difference
is today, but warranty expense PNVS for a domestic brand used to be about
10
times that of Toyota.
I'm sure the domestics and even some historically poor quality performers
like Hyundai have come a long ways in initial and long-term quality. They
had nowhere to go but up.
If you take a domestic brand's lower acquisition cost compared with a
comparable Toyota, i.e. a Ford 500 vs. Avalon or Camry, and factor in
routine maintenance, then the domestic will probably come out ahead in
that
equation. The equation gets a little hazier if you factor in repairs
beyond
the warranty period and resale value.
For out-of-warranty repairs, a domestic is probablyno so bad that it will
need an engine or tranny like people in this ng fear but it will likely
need
some other minor or moderate repairs. I've seen friends with domestics
need PS pumps, AC compressors, wheel bearing which required whole hubs to
repair, etc. To be fair, Toyotas will sometimes need this stuff but a
lot
less likely. So add in the cost of that moderate or minor repairs, and
the
inconvenience of bringing it in, then the domestic looks less attractive.
On a dollar to dollar comparison, I'll bet that comparable domestic and
Japanese models are pretty close over 5 or 10 years. Factor in the down
time, inconvenience, confidence in your transportation, and fit and
finish,
then Toyotas start to look more attractive.
The Korean brands are the winners in the dollar-to dollar competition,
especially with the long warranties they needed to offer in order to
entice
customers to trust them again. Their fit and finish and reliability is
getting better, but still IMO, below even Ford and GM. It's hard to
measure
"niceness" and "cheapness" but the materials in the Hyundia XG did not
seem
as nice as in a domestic or Japanese make although all the bells and
whistles were there.
The difference in fit and finish is something that IMO your average
American
driver is not aware of. On a quantitative basis, an average Toyota is
head
and shoulders above an average domestic. One of my monthly duties used
to
be writing product reports, and we would have to go out and measure stuff
on
certain Toyotas and domestics. One month we measured the consistency of
the
gap between body panels on brand new and 3-year old Toyotas and domestic
brands. Toyotas had a gap of 3 to 5 mm +/- 1 mm whether brand new or 3
years old, while the domestic brands had gaps of 4 to 8 mm +/- 3 to 4 mm.
Does the average soccer mom know this difference? Probably not. Can
they
perceive the difference in wind and engine noise? More likely. Is there
a
prestige factor in buying a Toyota or Sony over a domestic brand?
probably.
I guess purchasing a Toyota is like purchasing fine wine or fine
furniture.
You can get a buzz on cheaper wine or sit on Ikea furniture, and there is
a
market for both low, medium, and finer products.
I like to tinker to stay in practice. People give me weird looks when I
say
that I did a brake job on my LS 400 or a friend's Focus instead of
bringing
it to a shop. I guess Lexus owners are not known as DIY-ers. I just did
some PM on a friend's 2000 top-of-the-line Windstar, and running
gear-wise,
it is in good condition, but there was a lot of stuff that made me happy
with our 97 Avalon, 2000 LS, and 2004 Sequoia.
This is just anecdotal evidence and not a scientific study, but here's
what
I noticed on the Windstar: All of the seats except for the power seats
were
almost impossible to move on the seat tracks. I cleaned and greased all
of
them to free them up. I have never done any maintenance on a seat
adjustment mechanism on a Toyota. The PS pump and engine noise in
general
was very loud, even louder than our '93 Previa (where you sit on top of
the
engine) was. He is getting 14 mpg around town. I don't know what the
Windstar's engine displacement or horsepower is, but our Sequoia gets
that
around town, weighing about 1,500 pounds more a lot more quietly.
When I worked on the friend's Focus front pads and passenger side mirror
assembly, I could not believe how many different sockets I had out. I
used
stuff that I haven't touched in years. On a Toyota, you can do almost
anything with a #2 phillips and a 10, 12, & 14 mm wrench. Does soccer
mom
care about using all the tools, absolutely not! ;-( The little bits of
thoughtfulness in designing a car is one of those intangibles that have
me
spending a little more for a Toyota. I'll spend time cleaning and
lubing
the ratchet mechanism in my Snap-on ratchets, actually use air tool oil
in
air tools, and put anti-seize on studs and on the back of alloy wheels so
that Toyota thoughtfulness kind of matches my personality.
BTW, the calipers on the Focus were much better design than on previous
Fords where you have to knock out the part that looks like a roll pin
with
rubber in it!
I'll admit that the LS is a PITA to work on because everything is under
some
shield or aerodynamic cover. They should have stuck with their Toyota
methods instead of trying to emulate their European premium brands. The
good news is that I haven't had to peek under the covers to often!
Happy motoring!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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HachiRoku
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:
Re: 1999 Toyota Tercel |
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:51:59 -0600, Ray O wrote:
| Quote: | "HachiRoku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
news:fXurd.4148$UU1.346@trndny04...
I have talked about my many Toyotas. I have upgraded the stereos in every
single one of them, starting with a (gulp) 8-track player in the '74 KE25.
I finally got my Supra, and while it is in the garage where I work getting
a timing belt, I have been installing the stereo (no, not an 8-track! CD
with EQ and either a 75WPC or 100WPC amp 4 channels with Thumper in the
rear!)
I have to do some serious thinking here! All the usual places I pass the
wiring through are blocked! By METAL!!! I thought my 'hachi' was built
like a tank compared to other Toyotas, Holy Crap! I was having my after
dinner ciggie, and thinking to myself, "I wonder why they didn't market
this as a Lexus?" It certainly has a lot of the earmarks. Of all my Toys,
it is by far the best built I have seen. So, I have to come up with some
'creative wiring'!~
Even taking the radio 'surround' was an experience: it's half the dash!
Now, to find a set of MB Quarts that'll fit! (it had the Live Sound, but
the speakers are toast...)
Time to lift the carpets and run the wires along the hump!
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See my answer to Viperkiller: it's a pretty slick installation.
I don't have a clutch, so there is a pass-through in the FW; I removed the
plug, cut a hole and ran the wires through that, using that serrated
wire-wrap stuff the kids use on their 'bling' systems. Ran it under the
dash, and down the hump. Amp's under tha pass seat; rear seats now more
useless than they were originally (massive 400W amp!)
Just a little more 'finessing', running the heavier wire for the speakers
that'll be going in and we're done! |
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