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Peter Bozz
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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| Quote: | But no matter which way you cut it, with the immediate and standing offer to
cut points in half, without ever reviewing your driving record, it is clear
that tickets, at least in Colorado, aren't about making the roads safer but
rather making money for the local municipality. A person who would otherwise
lose their license at 12 points would still be on the road until they
violated laws to the tune of 24 points.
I guess a city ***should*** want to keep the repeat offenders on the roads
though, as it improves revenue :^)
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I believe there is a similar thing in England, where they recently
decided to cut the points in half for minor speeding offences, usually
those caught on speed cameras. "Get up to twice the number of offences
with only one license!"
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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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I agree that lower speeds in very busy periods can actually speed up the
flow of traffic (queuing theory etc). However, rush hour isn't most of the
time. That is just an argument for variable limits on selected sections of
road -- no big deal to implement.
Basically the 70 mph (112 km/h) limit is generally unenforceable and very
unpopular. It doesn't mean people never get stopped and punished, but it's
not something the police like to do. As I said, traffic on dual
carriageways, especially full motorways (Autobahnen), tends to move smoothly
and safely at around 80/85 mph (c. 125 - 135 km/h).
I don't think that there is much evidence that raising the speed limit would
have a detrimental effect on road casualties. Except for last year there
has been a steady decline in deaths and injuries (and motorways are already
the safest roads in Britain) over a long period, and this has more to do
with other factors. (In that time the speed limits have been unchanged.)
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Peter Bozz" <spam@rama.com> wrote in message
news:41ac6d12$0$78738$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
[...]
| Quote: |
Why do the police want this? I'm asking, because experiments in Holland
revealed that *lowering* the speed limit from 120kph to 80kph on freeways
during rush hour or on busy sections of roadway, *improves*
[...] |
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Peter Bozz
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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| Quote: | time. That is just an argument for variable limits on selected sections of
road -- no big deal to implement.
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They have that in Germany. They use electronic overhead signs that come
on (automatically or otherwise) during specific traffic conditions to
cap the speed limit (usually, to 120kph, or 100kph) on sections of the
road where there's usually no limit. There's only one problem with this
system, which otherwise should work fine: people need to stick to the
temporary restrictions. I'm sure only the Germans are disciplined enough
to do this :^
| Quote: | I don't think that there is much evidence that raising the speed limit would
have a detrimental effect on road casualties. Except for last year there
has been a steady decline in deaths and injuries (and motorways are already
the safest roads in Britain) over a long period, and this has more to do
with other factors. (In that time the speed limits have been unchanged.)
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I believe that one reason they can't simply abolish or even raise the
speed limits is the fact that the current freeways in England (or
Holland for that matter) are not designed for very high speed traffic.
Most if not all German Autobahns *are* specifically designed for that:
for instance, the maximum road inclination allowed is 4%. Also the apron
is much more robust (a German Autobahn is twice as thick as an American
freeway), and corners have been constructed with high speed in mind.
Stir in some Cherman obsession with Maitenance and some good old Cherman
Discipline, and you can see why their roads are safe even at very high
speeds :-)
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Ramone Cila
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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"Peter Bozz" <spam@rama.com> wrote in message
news:41ad7306$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
| Quote: | "Get up to twice the number of offences
with only one license!"
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Exactly...if ticketing speeders was for the purpose of making the roads
safer, you would never get an unconsidered break on the points. |
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Trey
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Peter Bozz wrote:
| Quote: | What I find appalling is the fact the the police are mainly
interested in writing out tickets and collecting profits from
fines, NOT in public safety on the roads. I can rip at twice the
speed limit in a residential neighborhood, with kids playing nearby
and a school down the road, and there will *never* be a cop there
to bust my ass.
If you drive like that on my residential street, I will make sure
the cops catch you.
This merely proves my point.
I agree one should obey the law, but that's hard to justify when
the law has been turned into a mockery of itself by the very people
that are enforcing it.
It is never hard to justify following the law, it is often easy to
rationalize breaking it.
That's a very nice statement and all, but is has no direct bearing on
my post, which accused the police of going after cash rather than
safety on the road.
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and since "people with sports cars have cash to burn" they are more likely
to just pay the ticket then fight it? This could be why I always see the
Porsche 911 turbo's over in the slow lane, doing 10 under the speed limit.
They know the cops think they are loaded and will just pay what ever amount
the cop says they owe.
For someone like me, this makes it very hard. I LOVE cars, and would love to
get a BMW M3. However, it would cost me my entire paycheck for the duration
of the five year loan. Any increase in insurance or registration, or any
added costs like a ticket would put my dream car up for sale after the first
pull over.
That's one nice thing about the cameras. The camera does not discriminate.
Ford Fiesta, or Ferrari Enzo, speeding is speeding to it. |
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Trey
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Peter Bozz wrote:
| Quote: | time. That is just an argument for variable limits on selected
sections of road -- no big deal to implement.
They have that in Germany. They use electronic overhead signs that
come on (automatically or otherwise) during specific traffic
conditions to cap the speed limit (usually, to 120kph, or 100kph) on
sections of the road where there's usually no limit. There's only one
problem with this system, which otherwise should work fine: people
need to stick to the temporary restrictions. I'm sure only the
Germans are disciplined enough to do this :^
I don't think that there is much evidence that raising the speed
limit would have a detrimental effect on road casualties. Except
for last year there has been a steady decline in deaths and injuries
(and motorways are already the safest roads in Britain) over a long
period, and this has more to do with other factors. (In that time
the speed limits have been unchanged.)
I believe that one reason they can't simply abolish or even raise the
speed limits is the fact that the current freeways in England (or
Holland for that matter) are not designed for very high speed traffic.
Most if not all German Autobahns *are* specifically designed for that:
for instance, the maximum road inclination allowed is 4%. Also the
apron is much more robust (a German Autobahn is twice as thick as an
American freeway), and corners have been constructed with high speed
in mind. Stir in some Cherman obsession with Maitenance and some good
old Cherman Discipline, and you can see why their roads are safe even
at very high speeds :-)
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I have been told that the roads here in California are better maintained
then a majority of the US. I somehow doubt this since many of the roads and
freeways are in very poor condition. With politics here its easier to get
half the funding now and build something that will fall apart, and then
spend three times as much in repairing it. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:02 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
| Quote: | As for construction zones, it is good and proper to double the fines
for violations in construction zones. Mostly because, if cars CAN do
85, it wouldn't be a construction zone, and since it is a
construction zone, the lanes are narrower, the walls are closer, and
there are pedestrians within 20 feet of the cars speeding by even if
they are separated by a wall. If a car hits the wall and bounces off
back into the traffic lanes, it can take out several other cars, any
one of which could take out the guys trying to make the freeway wider.
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You missed the point. I'm all for construction zones -- I'd hate to be working
around the nitwits on CA freeways. Enough Caltrans workers are killed every
year to prove the danger is real.
The problem is, miles of freeway are cordoned off for years, while actual
construction takes place in only a few hundred yards of it at a time. 95% or
whatever of the "construction zone" has no construction happening within it for
months, or even years. The public sees this and learns to ignore the warning.
I am well aware of the practical, bureacratic, and traffic engineering issues
involved in creating construction zones. But there's no question that if they
were just a little more dynamic in the way they were applied, the roads would be
safer for everyone.
Smart people are working on this, and change is coming. It's high time.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:28 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Trey wrote:
| Quote: | I know people that drive as much as 90+ miles each way. (Apple Valley
to Disneyland, Lake Ellsinore to Santa Ana, Temecula to Newport) I
really don't know who in their right mind would do that, but its
rather popular. However, with that long of a commute, the speed
limit, 55 or 65 would drive me INSANE of I had to commute 90 miles
each way. So what do they do? they pound the gas! Is it smart? I wont
answer that. That's just how it is.
Wow, 180 miles a day, five days a week, 46,800 a year. ave 65, and
that's 720 hours a year, at 85 that's 550 hours a year, What would
you like to be doing for that extra 170 hours a year you save?
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Think of the money you're pissing away driving. Just going by the standard IRS
reimbursement of what, 36 cents a mile -- do the math for yourself. Of course,
many people drive cars costing much more than that. Late model BMWs definately
fall into that category, probably around 50 cents a mile. According to the
figures you just quoted, that's a couple hundred thousand dollars more house you
could afford! Which is a better place for your money -- your house
(appreciating at over 20% in southern CA), or out your tailpipe?
| Quote: | I think a good solution would be creating jobs closer to people's
homes, so they don't have to drive as far.
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The jobs are there and the homes are there, but people don't even think to look
for them. They work a certain place and then get it in their minds they have to
live a certain place, without exploring the alternatives.
Many of my friends have migrated from the suburbs to the middle of Los Angeles,
so they could either live right near work, or do a "reverse commute," against
the normal traffic patterns.
| Quote: | If I could, I would walk
or ride a bicycle to work.
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You probably can. Where do you live, and work? I know a couple of people who
commute from Laguna Beach to Long Beach (that's a long one, 28 mi), a whole
bunch who go from Huntington or Costa Mesa to Irvine Spectrum (15 mi), one who
goes from Manhattan Beach to Santa Monica College (12 mi), and two who go from
Echo Park to Santa Monica (probably 12 mi). In all cases except the first,
riding a bike is faster than driving at rush hour.
Bike to work, and save the BMW for pleasant road trips.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:32 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
| Quote: | I agree that lower speeds in very busy periods can actually speed up
the flow of traffic (queuing theory etc). However, rush hour isn't
most of the time. That is just an argument for variable limits on
selected sections of road -- no big deal to implement.
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In southern CA it is, or almost -- 5:30-10AM, and 2-8PM, in most places. The
window of opportunity to get anywhere easily is outside these hours.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:12 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Trey wrote:
| Quote: | I have been told that the roads here in California are better
maintained then a majority of the US. I somehow doubt this since many
of the roads and freeways are in very poor condition. With politics
here its easier to get half the funding now and build something that
will fall apart, and then spend three times as much in repairing it.
|
I guess the growth has been too rapid for the roads to keep up with. Getting
repairs done while keeping traffic moving is difficult.
CA roads probably *were* the best unitl a decade or so ago. I've certainly
noticed the downfall. For the last couple of years I've been driving all over
the east coast. In comparison, CA roads are atrocious. NYC, New England, and
even Detroit, all once known for terrible, car eating roads, all have better
roads than CA these days. Repairs, when they finally do happen, seem to be very
poor quality too.
One thing CA does have going for it is clear signage and road architecture.
Half the traffic on the east coast seems to be people driving back and forth
looking for where they were supposed to turn!
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:13 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Peter Bozz wrote:
| Quote: | I believe there is a similar thing in England, where they recently
decided to cut the points in half for minor speeding offences, usually
those caught on speed cameras. "Get up to twice the number of offences
with only one license!"
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The British may not have invented taxation, but the've honed the art to where
they're better at it than anyone else.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Trey wrote:
| Quote: | ohh, I wish a cop would sit out in front of my house with a speed
gun!! double the speed limit would be rather common.
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If you and your neighbors complain enough, they probably will. All it takes is
a few complaints -- even just 2 or 3.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:27 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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Trey wrote:
| Quote: | and since "people with sports cars have cash to burn" they are more
likely to just pay the ticket then fight it? This could be why I
always see the Porsche 911 turbo's over in the slow lane, doing 10
under the speed limit. They know the cops think they are loaded and
will just pay what ever amount the cop says they owe.
|
Maybe. More likely, the Porsche Turbo driver has already had several points on
his license. The local police probably know who he is, are watching him like a
hawk, and he knows it.
Like anyone else, police aren't always perfectly competent or honest, but
they're way smarter, better at their jobs, and more honest than you probably
think.
Also, most people can't afford such expensive cars until they're older, and more
cautious -- both about driving itself, *and* getting tickets. I don't know how
old the average Porsche buyer is, but most Corvette buyers are over 60, and BMW
buyers over 50.
Matt O. |
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Ramone Cila
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:36 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:316u5oF35rjscU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | If you and your neighbors complain enough, they probably will. All it
takes is
a few complaints -- even just 2 or 3.
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Only if the area in question is a better revenue producer than another being
complained about. Outside of school areas, I really believe traps are set up
where they will make the most money....not do the most good. |
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Jason G
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Orange county, speed limit reduced? |
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In article <10qqap9knvnl73d@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Strickland says...
| Quote: |
I drive from Riverside into San Diego, and back, daily.
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I drive San Diego to Orange County, so I feel your pain. You are correct about
the speeds here. 65 would drive me insane even if it didn't get me run off the
road.
God bless my Valentine One! That puppy paid for itself within one week.
Blasting my 330Cic through Pendleton in light traffic is a lot more fun now.
--
Jason G
"This isn't a matter of being tolerant,
it's a matter of being sane." --REP, a.s.c. |
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