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Matt O'Toole
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GRL
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:19 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S. themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Pity.
George
"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30pniqF33ns53U1@uni-berlin.de...
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:08 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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In article <73Opd.17155$Ws5.3166@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
| Quote: | Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
|
Dunno why. In the UK, the 'new' 5 Series diesel is said by many to be the
pick of the 6 cylinder models - even ignoring the better fuel costs. And
the residual value of diesel BMWs is much better than petrol ones, so it
would seem the market agrees.
--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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GRL wrote:
| Quote: | Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Pity.
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Let GM do the test marketing I guess, without incurring the costs of
certification.
Matt O. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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In article <ZrKdnQ7brsRC5zXcRVn-sw@comcast.com>,
Nate Nagel <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in
the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the piss poor engines
offered by GM (Oldsmobile.)
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Diesels were pretty crude devices everywhere, until electronic injection
arrived.
| Quote: | Also BMW has something of a "performance"
image here and Diesels really don't fit that.
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The point is that for most use, the modern diesel feels livelier. It's
only when you can rev a petrol engine that it starts to take over.
| Quote: | Finally, Diesels rean't that much cheaper to run here than gasoline
engines, so there's no huge push to convert.
|
In the UK, diesel is more expensive than petrol. But the better mileage -
especially in urban driving - makes it worth while. And with all fuel
prices on the up in the US - with little likelihood of them ever being
cheap again, the same arguments apply.
--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Badger
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d146e7b90dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <ZrKdnQ7brsRC5zXcRVn-sw@comcast.com>,
Nate Nagel <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote:
I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in
the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the piss poor engines
offered by GM (Oldsmobile.)
Diesels were pretty crude devices everywhere, until electronic injection
arrived.
Also BMW has something of a "performance"
image here and Diesels really don't fit that.
The point is that for most use, the modern diesel feels livelier. It's
only when you can rev a petrol engine that it starts to take over.
Finally, Diesels rean't that much cheaper to run here than gasoline
engines, so there's no huge push to convert.
In the UK, diesel is more expensive than petrol. But the better mileage -
especially in urban driving - makes it worth while. And with all fuel
prices on the up in the US - with little likelihood of them ever being
cheap again, the same arguments apply.
Just driven my 330dSE Auto on a 500 mile round trip from the north of |
Scotland south and back, average speed 53mph, average consumption
43.1mpg(imperial). I am not frightened to use the available power and torque
(184bhp/280lb.ft) when it comes to overtaking, so don't say that diesels
can't be performance cars. I *used* to have that misconception.
Badger. |
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Nate Nagel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <73Opd.17155$Ws5.3166@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Dunno why. In the UK, the 'new' 5 Series diesel is said by many to be the
pick of the 6 cylinder models - even ignoring the better fuel costs. And
the residual value of diesel BMWs is much better than petrol ones, so it
would seem the market agrees.
|
I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in
the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the piss poor engines
offered by GM (Oldsmobile.) Also BMW has something of a "performance"
image here and Diesels really don't fit that. Finally, Diesels rean't
that much cheaper to run here than gasoline engines, so there's no huge
push to convert.
nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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GRL
Guest
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Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:06 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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GM wants to sell them in Europe, where BMW already does, not in the US.
Autoweek got hold of a 5-series BMW diesel and tried it in Michigan
recently. They loved the thing's performance and it got fantastic mileage.
'Course we can't have it here because of an image problem that would cause
for BMW.
George Litwinski
"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30qrifF33hcr0U1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | GRL wrote:
Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Pity.
Let GM do the test marketing I guess, without incurring the costs of
certification.
Matt O.
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GRL
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Diesels ARE much cheaper to run. Car diesels in a mid-size car typically get
mid-20's mpg in the city cycle and approach 40 mpg in the highway cycle.
That is MUCH better than equivalent-power gas engines. Go look at the
numbers on the new MB diesel in their E-class vs. the gas six. The MB diesel
blows away the gas in all regards, including acceleration, and it costs the
same to buy.
The BMW diesel, I would guess, enjoys similar numbers vs. the gas sixes.
In the US, the BMW image is based on high-winding smooth gas sixes and that
clashes completely with what you get with a diesel. This is not to say that
the diesel is not fun to drive, tons of low end torque vs. a gas engine is a
lot of fun, after all.
George Litwinski
"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message
news:ZrKdnQ7brsRC5zXcRVn-sw@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <73Opd.17155$Ws5.3166@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Dunno why. In the UK, the 'new' 5 Series diesel is said by many to be
the
pick of the 6 cylinder models - even ignoring the better fuel costs. And
the residual value of diesel BMWs is much better than petrol ones, so it
would seem the market agrees.
I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in
the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the piss poor engines
offered by GM (Oldsmobile.) Also BMW has something of a "performance"
image here and Diesels really don't fit that. Finally, Diesels rean't
that much cheaper to run here than gasoline engines, so there's no huge
push to convert.
nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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Frank Kemper
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> haute in die Tasten:
| Quote: | Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
|
BMW has supplied Opel, the GM-owned manufacturer in Germany for years with
their 6 cylinder 2,5 litre turbodiesel engine. Opel put it into their sedan
called Omega, which is about the size of a BMW 525. AFAIK Opel stopped the
production of the Omega about one year ago. AFIR the BMW engine for the
Opel had some HP less than the engines used in the 5' series.
As a matter of fact, GM is suffering hard times in Europe, almost all
european GM subsidiarys lose money at the moment. One reason for that seems
to be the weak position of GM in the Diesel market, if you compare them
with VW/Audi, Mercedes and Peugeot/Citroen. Even BMW knows bettter how to
make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades of
Diesel history.
Frank
--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact
Citroen - Made in Trance |
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Ramone Cila
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d145ef182dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <73Opd.17155$Ws5.3166@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
Would be nice if BMW would bother to sell the things in the U.S.
themselves.
I guess it clashes with the U.S. image.
Dunno why. In the UK, the 'new' 5 Series diesel is said by many to be the
pick of the 6 cylinder models - even ignoring the better fuel costs. And
the residual value of diesel BMWs is much better than petrol ones, so it
would seem the market agrees.
|
If you look at the US market as well as our driving costs there really isn't
any overwhelming need or desire to bring the diesels here. The mileage isn't
that much better (Americans aren't going to go gaga over 5 or 6 miles per
gallon better when they are already getting mid-20's mileage anyway), diesel
fuel matches premium grade fuel in price, the performance isn't as good as
the new 3.0 straight six, and I suspect there is, or would be, a premium
cost for the diesel option. |
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Ramone Cila
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Frank Kemper" <spam-muelleimer@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:Xns95AE9D2F92D84eldosampleman@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | Even BMW knows bettter how to
make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades of
Diesel history.
|
There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone else in
the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given manufacturer can
afford to spend on any given component. Just because BMW doesn't make US
style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they haven't the know-how or
capability to build one as good as a Ford Super Duty? |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Ramone Cila wrote:
| Quote: | "Frank Kemper" <spam-muelleimer@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:Xns95AE9D2F92D84eldosampleman@130.133.1.4...
Even BMW knows bettter how to
make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades
of Diesel history.
There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone
else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given
manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because
BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they
haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford
Super Duty?
|
Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of years
to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working together.
Matt O. |
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30rv16F34ioovU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Ramone Cila wrote:
"Frank Kemper" <spam-muelleimer@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:Xns95AE9D2F92D84eldosampleman@130.133.1.4...
Even BMW knows bettter how to
make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades
of Diesel history.
There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone
else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given
manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because
BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they
haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford
Super Duty?
Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of
years
to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working
together.
Matt O.
|
For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty Dump Truck
with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel for the last
five years and when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive
straight over the top of them at the first attempt.
Huw |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:26 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Huw wrote:
| Quote: | For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty
Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel
for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals
away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt.
|
Honda did this with the original CRX. No one knew about it until it debuted.
It was a revolutionary car in that it went from inception to showroom in 18
months. It left everyone else scratching their heads thinking, "Geez, how'd
they do that?" Also, "If they can do that, they'll be kicking our butts." Which
they did.
Being privately held, BMW could do this as well as anyone, but it hasn't been
their style.
Matt O. |
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