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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:06 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Your nose is right. LPG is as near as damn it pure C, H and O. No
impurities to give rise to a pong. Hence low taxes to encourage its use.
Drawbacks for saloons well-known. Giant storage tank grabbing valuable
luggage space. Can't use the Channel Shuttle (so 'trapped'), and in UK
still not so easy to find at filling stations.
On top of that, the Chancellor of the Exchequer (finance minister) will
clobber all users with heavy taxes if he loses a significant number of
petrol buyers who have fled to LPG. Already the guarantee of low tax is
running out in the next year or two and who knows what the review will
bring?
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d15626d7adave@davenoise.co.uk...
[...]
.. And appear to have totally clean exhausts - to my
> nose at least.
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Timothy J. Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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In article <BZHqd.26388$zx1.11656@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
Vernon Balbert <vbalbert@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The public are right. In the UK, even with its better fuel, you can still
smell a diesel - and it's not that pleasant. And many will still smoke
quite badly on full throttle.
It may smell worse, but does it really put out more pollutants than
gasoline (petrol)? It was my understanding that the amount of pollution
was similar for both types of fuel.
|
Different kinds of pollution. Gasoline / petrol emits more carbon
monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons, and very small (invisible) particulates,
while diesel emits more nitrogen oxides and visible, smelly particulates.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. |
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:42 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:41ab7e58$0$16586$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
| Quote: | These companies hedge their currency risks, but one can do that only for
so long.
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Around a year to eighteen months maximum I would imagine.
Huw
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GRL
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:34 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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...and slugs vs. the gas engines. Not true with the MB unit.
George Litwinski
"Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in message
news:DAxqd.85222$vO1.494873@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
| Quote: |
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:jmsqd.23412$Ix7.4571@fe07.lga...
How does MB manage to do it?
VW does a brisk business with the TDI models of the bug, Jetta, Golf,
Passat. They're no BMWs, but they're not cheap, and they are German.
-Russ.
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Andrew Thomas
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:37 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message news:<41ab7f76$0$16582$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>...
| Quote: | A excellent example of the triumph of brand image and marketing. The
Compact was, by many accounts, equalled or trounced in almost all ways by
'any old' Ford (performance, value for money, build quality) but still sold
very well. Despite somewhat outdated engines and no boot.
|
In what way was the 318ti's engine outdated? I don't recall too many
manufacturers pulling 140 bhp and 37 mpg out of 1.8 litres in 1994.
Ford's riposte to the lower-mid hatch segment - the Focus - came FOUR
years after the Compact debuted. That's over half a generation in car
terms. The Ford hatch in production at the time was the Escort -
universally acknowledged to be mediocre (at best) in practically every
respect. And even the most diehard Ford apologist-cum-Compact basher
would have to admit that to drive, the Escort was pretty poor - whilst
the Compact was actually pretty good, and certainly superior to the
rattly, corkscrewing Golf III of the day. I guess we forget these
things when we don our manure-tinted spectacles and peer myopically
into BMW's budget-oriented past.
How did we ever get to this situation in the first place? |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:23 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Vernon Balbert wrote:
| Quote: | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <A_wqd.26282$zx1.128@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
Vernon Balbert <vbalbert@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that nobody has pointed out that diesel fuel in the
U.S. does not have a lot of availability. Most gas stations (at
least in California and Oregon) don't carry diesel. Maybe one in
eight or ten does.
Does this mean all trucks are petrol? Or do they use different
filling stations?
Not at all. Semi trucks use diesel. But they don't drop into the
neighborhood gas station that the bulk of the citizenry use to fill
up. They do it at truck stops on the road between cities or in
private pumps used at trucking companies.
|
Most trucks are diesel, including box vans and larger pickups. There are plenty
of diesel stations in southern CA, and plenty of truck stops too. I've owned a
couple of diesel cars, and driven many more. Getting fuel was never an issue.
Might I remind Vernon that transportation is LA's largest industry. The Port of
Los Angeles is the busiest in the Western Hemisphere. More stuff gets put on
trucks in LA than just about anywhere else. The Alameda corridor, running
between the harbor and downtown, is basically one big truck depot and rail yard.
So there's plenty of diesel around. If not right by your house, then no more
than a few blocks away. Even if it's one in ten gas stations (and it's actually
more than that), the sheer number of gas stations ensures diesel is always
nearby. This is a non-issue. Full stop.
Vernon needs to get out more, and see what's around him.
| Quote: | Here in L.A. area there are some cities that use LPG for buses and
other public vehicles and yes, they're pretty clean.
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Actually, more of those buses and fleet vehicles use CNG, which is the cleanest
of all internal combustion fuels (in current use).
| Quote: | However, I have
no information on how well these engines perform. I mean am I going
to get 215 hp from a 3 liter LPG engine? This isn't why I bought my
beemer, but it's a nice feature about it.
|
If your car was built especially for propane, it would make more power than
gasoline. Propane allows a higher compression ratio, and mixes better with air.
In the 80s, converting to propane was one way to legally modify an engine for
more power, and an easy way to make a dirty engine smog-legal. Morgans were
propane powered for this reason. Dual-fuel cars don't get the power boost,
because they need the lower compression ratio to run on gasoline.
Doesn't BMW sell propane cars for certain parts of Europe, such as Denmark?
Matt O. |
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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:29 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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What, not "period"?
Not born in the USA maybe...?....
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:314ab1F37hqp2U1@individual.net...
[...]
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:51 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
| Quote: | What, not "period"?
Not born in the USA maybe...?....
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American born and bred, but been around a bit.
Matt O. |
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Frank Kemper
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> haute in die Tasten:
| Quote: | They make sedans that are, largely, the most fun to drive. They make
mediocre, space inefficient, SUV's.
|
Given the fact that most SUVs are spending more than 99% of their lifespan
on paved surfaces, there is hardly another SUV which is so much fun to
drive as an BMW X5 4.4i;-)
BMW does not make heavy duty 4x4 all terrain cars like a Hummer H1, a
Mercedes G-Model and a Land Rover Defender. But they also do not pretend to
do this.
Frank
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Citroen - Made in Trance |
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Frank Kemper
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:02 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Vernon Balbert <vbalbert@yahoo.com> haute in die Tasten:
| Quote: | Diesel has gotten a bad rap, especially on the west coast. The public's
perception is that the exhaust is dirtier than gasoline exhaust.
|
The public opinion can be altered if you know how to use the PR tools
right. Back in the 80's in Germany Diesels were an issue for farmers and
taxicab drivers. Then they became better and cleaner. Suddenly a Diesel
engine was a sign of special enviromental friendliness, because a Diuesel
would produce less carbon dioxide (because it burns less fuel). In the last
years the image of the Diesel changed agaib, because its exhaust was
regarded to cause cancer due to the very fine carbon particles in it. Then
PSA (Peugeot and Citroen) succeded in launching the FAP filter technology,
which can filter out virtually all of these particles. Suddenly every
Diesel without this filter is regarded as dirty, although german companies
ar working at engines which are clean without filter... The current
commercials in Germany claim a diesel engine with carbon filter to be the
cleanest engine available (okay, if you take away electric and LPG powered
cars).
In my eyes it is ridiculous to allow or prohibit a certain engine working
principle. A government can set up emission standards, and every engine
which is able to meet these standards should be allowed to go to market.
Frank
--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact
Citroen - Made in Trance |
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Frank Kemper
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> haute in die Tasten:
| Quote: | Doesn't BMW sell propane cars for certain parts of Europe, such as
Denmark?
|
AFAIK BMW once introduced the BMW 316g compact, where g stands for "Gas",
which does not mean "gasoline" but "compressed natural gas" or something
like that.
The other day I saw an interesting thing introduced by Citroen. In France
many houses are heated with gas, they also do the cooking and the heating
of water with natural gas (It is the same in Germany). Citroen has now
introduced its C3 (small 4 door compact car, slightly smaller than a VW
Golf) in a gas version, which is sold together with a small compressor,
which allows filling up the car from your home gas source. This may cure
the main problem with CNG cars in europe, the lack of filling stations.
Frank
--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact
Citroen - Made in Trance |
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Vernon Balbert
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Frank Kemper wrote:
| Quote: | In my eyes it is ridiculous to allow or prohibit a certain engine working
principle. A government can set up emission standards, and every engine
which is able to meet these standards should be allowed to go to market.
|
You'll get no argument out of me in that regard. I used to have a
diesel Volvo which I liked. It handled a lot better than some other
cars I've had.
Frankly, it's my opinion that diesels are quite satisfactory engines for
a variety of purposes. I see no problem with them being used for
passenger cars.
Even the rotary engine is making a comeback since Mazda has been able to
re-engineer them to comply with regulations.
Vern |
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Frank Kemper
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:
| Quote: | Giant storage tank grabbing valuable
luggage space. Can't use the Channel Shuttle (so 'trapped'), and in UK
still not so easy to find at filling stations.
|
Many gas cars I know can run both on gas and on petrol. They usually have a
small petrol tank (some 4 gallons) in order to increase their range and to
help finding a gas station. If the gas tank was empty, would one be allowed
to use the channel shuttle?
Frank
--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact
Citroen - Made in Trance |
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Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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Tut-tut...going international...
;-)
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:316p8kF36k5gfU1@individual.net...
[...]>
| Quote: | American born and bred, but been around a bit.
Matt O.
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Ramone Cila
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
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"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:Y10qd.22192$F36.5775@fe07.lga...
| Quote: | Diesels ARE much cheaper to run.
|
Not if you consider principle cost part of the running cost. For
instance...in Great Britain the 535D carries a 16% premium over the 530i.
That $ 5,000.00 is a whole lot of fuel cost to make up in mileage
efficiency. In US terms, at current US diesel prices, it would take roughly
65,000 miles to ***break even*** compared to the 530i.
I imagine a similar premium for the diesel engine would make it's way to the
US.
| Quote: | Car diesels in a mid-size car typically get
mid-20's mpg in the city cycle and approach 40 mpg in the highway cycle.
That is MUCH better than equivalent-power gas engines. Go look at the
numbers on the new MB diesel in their E-class vs. the gas six. The MB
diesel
blows away the gas in all regards, including acceleration, and it costs
the
same to buy.
|
Mercedes is the exception in diesel cost being same as petrol. In the US,
outside of Mercedes, in every vehicle, from any make, in any form (SUV,
pickup, sedan etc) the diesel version costs significantly more. In fact it
may very well be that one reason BMW is not bring diesel to the US is
because the traditional spread between Mercedes cost and BMW costs
disappears when diesel cars are considered.
| Quote: | The BMW diesel, I would guess, enjoys similar numbers vs. the gas sixes.
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Not in price. Which for quite some time negates any fuel efficiency
advantage. |
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