| Author |
Message |
Matt O'Toole
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
Vernon Balbert wrote:
| Quote: | It's interesting that nobody has pointed out that diesel fuel in the
U.S. does not have a lot of availability. Most gas stations (at least
in California and Oregon) don't carry diesel. Maybe one in eight or
ten does.
|
Who cares? Every truck stop has it. Plus, a VW TDI will give you 700 miles to
a tank!
Wealthy neighborhoods tend to have diesel everywhere, for all the old Mercedes
rolling around.
| Quote: | Diesel has gotten a bad rap, especially on the west coast.
|
Not the west coast I'm from, where Mercedes diesels were, and still are,
everywhere. VW/Audi sold a bunch back in their day as well.
| Quote: | The
public's perception is that the exhaust is dirtier than gasoline
exhaust.
|
This has nothing to do with their lack of availability. Blame it on the CARB,
who made the rules, the public having no say in the matter.
Some say the rules were jiggered to benefit certain automakers who did not have
diesels to offer. The Jetta is is the third best selling car in its class. If
the TDI were available in CARB states, the Jetta would be #1 in class for sure.
The makers of the current #1 and #2 would not be amused.
| Quote: | Which is why the tax on it is higher so that the price is
pretty much the same as regular gas even though the fuel itself is
cheaper than gas.
|
Gas and diesel taxes are figured differently, based on correlating car and truck
usage.
Matt O.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Huw
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:19 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:Rnuqd.23437$%K1.13656@fe07.lga...
| Quote: | Actually, we do: Corvettes, some Caddies, some Jeeps...even some Bimmers
and Mercs.
|
I should have known this seeing as I have recently owned both an X5 and an
ML270. I would not be surprised if these were now two of the most profitable
models sold in Europe even considering that their engines and some gearboxes
come from Europe to start with.
| Quote: |
The low dollar effect is real, but not overwhelming...and when it comes
back
up (it will as our interest rates go up), BMW STILL will not be able to
sell
a mid-20's sedan that anyone will want to buy. Or so I think.
|
You are probably correct. The BMW1 is very expensive here for what it is. I
suspect that it will sell well regardless although the A Class is not
breaking any sales records.
Huw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
What is interesting for me is that BMW were very late into diesels and yet
when they did get going they were pretty good, immediately giving Merc a run
for their money.
(For those who don't know, many consider Merc and Peugeot the diesel
leaders.)
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d146e7b90dave@davenoise.co.uk...
[...]>
| Quote: | Diesels were pretty crude devices everywhere, until electronic injection
arrived.
[...] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
Uh uh...Merc have a Maybach Unimog ready for just such an event.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:30sfq5F33r5lbU1@uni-berlin.de...
{...]
| Quote: | when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive straight over the
top of them at the first attempt.
Huw
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
To be fair, the diesel 'market' is not very interesting at the moment, for
several reasons. Not a great variety of diesels are offered in the US. Can
you get a PT Cruiser or Chrysler Grand Voyager with a diesel engine in the
US?
So why should BMW bother?
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:Jw9qd.22488$gE4.535@fe07.lga...
[...]
| Quote: | They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the
U.S.
............... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
True of most modern diesels. Last summer rented an Alfa Romeo 147 with 1.9
l diesel (turbodiesel, of course) while in Italy. Beautiful: engine and
body shape:
http://www.alfaromeo.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.dll/ALFAROMEO_COM/home.jsp
(Pic in top left corner)
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:Nrvqd.23541$id2.16796@fe07.lga...
[...]
| Quote: | It is a sweet unit. Drove one this summer. Excellent smoothness and
acceleration. From inside, you can't tell it's a diesel.
[...] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andrew Thomas
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message news:<Clsqd.23410$UF.12947@fe07.lga>...
| Quote: | They tried selling a mid-20's truncated 2-door hatchback version of the old
3-series in the early '90's BEFORE the fall of the dollar. It was a dismal
failure, as it deserved to be. I suppose they will try it again with a 1 or
2-series, but I predict those will end up being low 30's cars, at best.
|
No, no BMW is unlikely to try *that* again. The Compact was very
successful in Europe, as the 1 will surely be. But no small, pricey
BMW will ever work in the United States. And I think it's only the
envy of a small, vocal core of enthusiasts that translates to the
demand perceived by BMWNA. A 1er with a big engine will cost a
fortune - personally, I don't think it's going to happen (although
there may be a healthy market for a 1er-derived convertible in the
future).
| Quote: | BMW's problem is that they have gotten away with charging too much for their
cars for so long
|
You think they're expensive right now? Let's see:
US 325i: $32,000
DE 325i: $46,000
UK 325i: $47,500 (same spec)
Complaints from across the pond about how expensive BMWs are will be
hereby ignored until the dollar is returned to (what most closely
approximates to) normal service :). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vernon Balbert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
Matt O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | Who cares? Every truck stop has it. Plus, a VW TDI will give you 700 miles to
a tank!
|
Truck stops are rather sparse in urban environments such as Los Angeles.
The nearest truck stop to me is at least 50 miles away. That makes it
a relevant factor.
| Quote: |
Wealthy neighborhoods tend to have diesel everywhere, for all the old Mercedes
rolling around.
|
I disagree. Los Angeles has a large number of wealthy neighborhoods.
They tend not to have any gas stations except on the periphery and they
still have a paucity of diesel pumps.
| Quote: |
Diesel has gotten a bad rap, especially on the west coast.
Not the west coast I'm from, where Mercedes diesels were, and still are,
everywhere. VW/Audi sold a bunch back in their day as well.
|
Make up your mind. If diesel does not have a bad rap then why have CARB?
| Quote: | The
public's perception is that the exhaust is dirtier than gasoline
exhaust.
This has nothing to do with their lack of availability. Blame it on the CARB,
who made the rules, the public having no say in the matter.
|
I disagree. So much legislation is based on public opinion on things,
including anti-pollution law. That's how politicians get reelected.
But then we're getting off the track. I don't want to get into a
discussion about politics.
| Quote: | Some say the rules were jiggered to benefit certain automakers who did not have
diesels to offer. The Jetta is is the third best selling car in its class. If
the TDI were available in CARB states, the Jetta would be #1 in class for sure.
The makers of the current #1 and #2 would not be amused.
|
Very possible. I don't have enough information to know for myself.
| Quote: | Which is why the tax on it is higher so that the price is
pretty much the same as regular gas even though the fuel itself is
cheaper than gas.
Gas and diesel taxes are figured differently, based on correlating car and truck
usage.
|
As well as to discourage its use. Sort of the same reasoning used for
cigarette taxes.
Vern |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vernon Balbert
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <A_wqd.26282$zx1.128@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
Vernon Balbert <vbalbert@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that nobody has pointed out that diesel fuel in the
U.S. does not have a lot of availability. Most gas stations (at least
in California and Oregon) don't carry diesel. Maybe one in eight or ten
does.
Does this mean all trucks are petrol? Or do they use different filling
stations?
|
Not at all. Semi trucks use diesel. But they don't drop into the
neighborhood gas station that the bulk of the citizenry use to fill up.
They do it at truck stops on the road between cities or in private
pumps used at trucking companies.
| Quote: | Diesel has gotten a bad rap, especially on the west coast. The public's
perception is that the exhaust is dirtier than gasoline exhaust. Which
is why the tax on it is higher so that the price is pretty much the same
as regular gas even though the fuel itself is cheaper than gas.
The public are right. In the UK, even with its better fuel, you can still
smell a diesel - and it's not that pleasant. And many will still smoke
quite badly on full throttle.
|
It may smell worse, but does it really put out more pollutants than
gasoline (petrol)? It was my understanding that the amount of pollution
was similar for both types of fuel.
| Quote: | However, I'm not judging the harm of the emissions from either - I'll
leave that to others.
One local council uses LPG for all its vehicles. Things like dustcarts
(refuse vehicles?) that spend a lot of time idling and moving slowly down
residential streets. And appear to have totally clean exhausts - to my
nose at least.
|
Here in L.A. area there are some cities that use LPG for buses and other
public vehicles and yes, they're pretty clean. However, I have no
information on how well these engines perform. I mean am I going to get
215 hp from a 3 liter LPG engine? This isn't why I bought my beemer,
but it's a nice feature about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ramone Cila
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:30v3o0F35qlusU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: |
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:Clsqd.23410$UF.12947@fe07.lga...
They tried selling a mid-20's truncated 2-door hatchback version of the
old
3-series in the early '90's BEFORE the fall of the dollar. It was a
dismal
failure, as it deserved to be. I suppose they will try it again with a 1
or
2-series, but I predict those will end up being low 30's cars, at best.
BMW's problem is that they have gotten away with charging too much for
their
cars for so long, that they never learned how to operate very
efficiently,
didn't have to. The problem with that is they say they want to be a
broad
product line company.
Almost anything imported from Europe to the US will be expensive given the
state of the Dollar.
|
Actually that has't changed our prices much at all. In time adjusted terms,
European automobiles are less expensive against the current dollar than they
were when the dollar was trading at 1.21 Euros just 2 or 3 years ago. This
is one of the reasons European auto companies are suffering a bit even
though they are, in some cases, like BMW, having record unit selling years.
They just can't move prices up and down to trying to reflect exchange rates.
| Quote: | It will make European exports of everything less than
luxury, high margin, goods less than viable. OTOH it makes importing
American cars to Europe very viable if only they produced something we
wanted. Jeep should do well in Europe for a while I would imagine.
|
Yes, but not because they will sell them for less, but because they will
reap more profit for the same MSRP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
Probably. A major manufacturer cannot afford such a failure, so BMW must
have done their 'due diligence'.
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d156ab26bdave@davenoise.co.uk...
[...]
| Quote: |
Perhaps learning from them?
.................. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:53 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
These companies hedge their currency risks, but one can do that only for so
long.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Ramone Cila" <dontw@nt.spam> wrote in message
news:HgIqd.6$eP3.419@news.uswest.net...
[...]
| Quote: | They just can't move prices up and down to trying to reflect exchange
rates.
[...] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dori A Schmetterling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:58 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
A excellent example of the triumph of brand image and marketing. The
Compact was, by many accounts, equalled or trounced in almost all ways by
'any old' Ford (performance, value for money, build quality) but still sold
very well. Despite somewhat outdated engines and no boot.
It's the badge...
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Andrew Thomas" <andrewj_nospamthomas@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ff692cff.0411290350.192d83ab@posting.google.com...
[...]
| Quote: | No, no BMW is unlikely to try *that* again. The Compact was very
successful in Europe...
[...] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Timothy J. Lee
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:59 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
In article <Nrvqd.23541$id2.16796@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
| Quote: | It is a sweet unit. Drove one this summer. Excellent smoothness and
acceleration. From inside, you can't tell it's a diesel.
|
Apparently, some of the contestants on the Amazing Race show couldn't
tell that some diesel SUV that they were driving was diesel, ignoring
the "diesel" sticker on the fuel filler area when refueling...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ramone Cila
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:06 am Post subject:
Re: BMW diesels for Cadillac? |
|
|
"Vernon Balbert" <vbalbert@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BZHqd.26388$zx1.11656@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <A_wqd.26282$zx1.128@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
Vernon Balbert <vbalbert@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that nobody has pointed out that diesel fuel in the
U.S. does not have a lot of availability. Most gas stations (at least
in California and Oregon) don't carry diesel. Maybe one in eight or ten
does.
Does this mean all trucks are petrol? Or do they use different filling
stations?
Not at all. Semi trucks use diesel. But they don't drop into the
neighborhood gas station that the bulk of the citizenry use to fill up.
They do it at truck stops on the road between cities or in private
pumps used at trucking companies.
|
Actually David, despite Vernon's experience in California, the use and
ownership of diesel pickup trucks in the US is at a high rate now and
growing every single year, despite adding about a 5 grand premium to the
purchase price. If people are buying 3/4-1 ton trucks a lot of them are
opting for the diesel and that number is growing and now there is
Here in Colorado, in the Denver metro area, probably 8 out of ten stations
have diesel. And that is the same in G Junction, C Springs, Pueblo, Ft
Collins...every metro/urban area in Colorado. Across the middle of this
country and in the south it is the same thing.
Distribution of diesel fuel, or availability for diesel owners would not be
an issue. It can easily be added to existing stations if the demand grows.
My pickup is an F350, 6.0 Powerstroke. 570 lb-ft torque and 325 hp. I can't
imagine having a petrol engine in my truck. I'd really like to see SUV's in
this country with diesels as well. For cars, I still want gasoline. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in