| Author |
Message |
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
I REMOVED alt.motorcycles.harley from my reply on purpose and I see that
YOU added it back on?
YOU REALLY ARE AN INCONSIDERATE GODLESS LIBERAL SHITBAG AND NO FUN TO TAUNT
ANYMORE. I blow my nose in your general direction.
--
polecat
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co5pgf$agn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
| Quote: |
polecat@stinker.org> wrote in message
news:BIcpd.36913$Al3.8003@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co12nt$pap$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
No I backed it up, and the source it the Nation Magazine, though a
Google search will bring up the same stats.
"The ONLY narrower wins were those of Bush in the
disputed election of 2000 and Woodrow Wilson in 1916. "
Blah Blah Blah... It's still winner take all.
Oh stealer take all. We should take a note about what is happening in The
Ukraine:
e.g. "....If the extra votes were simply added to Mr. Bush's total votes,
his "stuffed" ballots would have added 130,000 votes to his tally and the
county totals should reveal the additional votes by comparing the
signed-in number of voters to the actual votes. If however, 130,000 votes
were taken away from Kerry and converted to the use of Bush, then Bush's
net gain would be 260,000 votes. Bush won Florida by about 311,000 votes,
so investigators would have to locate another 52,000 or more unlawful
votes in the state before Kerry could claim the presidency based on
Florida's votes..." University of California, Berkeley research team
headed by Professor Michael Hout
"Freeman conducts an analysis of Kerry's votes: The likelihood of Kerry
receiving only 47.1% in Florida, given that the exit polls indicated 49.7%
is less than three in one thousand. Although Kerry did carry Pennsylvania,
the likelihood of his receiving only 50.8% given that the exit polls
indicated 54.1% is less than two in one thousand. Similarly the likelihood
of Kerry receiving only 48.5% in Ohio, given the exit polls indicated
52.1% is less than one in one thousand (.0008).
Freeman says, "The likelihood of any two of these statistical anomalies
occurring together is on the order of one-in-a-million. The odds against
all three occurring together are 250 million to one. As much as we can say
in social science that something is impossible, it is impossible that the
discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three
critical battleground states could have been due to chance or random
error."
Freeman concludes his study by making it clear that it is the
"responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public
to investigate."" Dr. Steven F. Freeman, faculty member of the
University of Pennsylvania
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
--
polecat
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mark A
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
| Quote: | e.g. "....If the extra votes were simply added to Mr. Bush's total votes,
his "stuffed" ballots would have added 130,000 votes to his tally and the
county totals should reveal the additional votes by comparing the
signed-in
number of voters to the actual votes. If however, 130,000 votes were taken
away from Kerry and converted to the use of Bush, then Bush's net gain
would
be 260,000 votes. Bush won Florida by about 311,000 votes, so
investigators
would have to locate another 52,000 or more unlawful votes in the state
before Kerry could claim the presidency based on Florida's votes..."
University of California, Berkeley research team headed by Professor
Michael
Hout
"Freeman conducts an analysis of Kerry's votes: The likelihood of Kerry
receiving only 47.1% in Florida, given that the exit polls indicated 49.7%
is less than three in one thousand. Although Kerry did carry Pennsylvania,
the likelihood of his receiving only 50.8% given that the exit polls
indicated 54.1% is less than two in one thousand. Similarly the likelihood
of Kerry receiving only 48.5% in Ohio, given the exit polls indicated
52.1%
is less than one in one thousand (.0008).
Freeman says, "The likelihood of any two of these statistical anomalies
occurring together is on the order of one-in-a-million. The odds against
all
three occurring together are 250 million to one. As much as we can say in
social science that something is impossible, it is impossible that the
discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three
critical
battleground states could have been due to chance or random error."
Freeman concludes his study by making it clear that it is the
"responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public
to
investigate."" Dr. Steven F. Freeman, faculty member of the University
of
Pennsylvania
polecat
|
Freeman may understand statistics, but not political polling. His analysis
is based on a random sample. There is little chance of a random sample of
people exiting the polling places, since some people do not want to
participate or the sample may have chosen incorrectly.
It is customary for the pollster to take the raw data and adjust it for the
demographics of the poll sample (those willing to participate) versus the
demographics of the demographics of those who actually vote. This was not
done is the recent election (at least not done when the raw data was
released). So the poll numbers where inaccurate. This is now well understood
by those knowledgeable in exit polling.
It is completely irresponsible for people to ignore the truth, especially
since it is widely known, about the mistakes made by the exit polling
company (which is used by all the media to save costs). These were not
"random" errors, but easily identified and understood. Just another attempt
to by the left to falsify the facts, spread lies and conspiracy theories
without a shred of evidence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jasmine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:24ypd.22$mH.18971@news.uswest.net...
snip
| Quote: | battleground states could have been due to chance or random error."
polecat
Freeman may understand statistics, but not political polling. His analysis
is based on a random sample. There is little chance of a random sample of
people exiting the polling places, since some people do not want to
participate or the sample may have chosen incorrectly.
It is customary for the pollster to take the raw data and adjust it for
the
demographics of the poll sample (those willing to participate) versus the
demographics of the demographics of those who actually vote. This was not
done is the recent election (at least not done when the raw data was
released).
|
Proof this was not done?!!
And WHAT are your credentials?
University of California, Berkeley research team headed by Professor Michael
Hout told a press conference that a study the team conducted focused on
electronic machine voting in Florida. While all 67 Florida counties were
reviewed, the study shows there is a statistical anomaly in three southern
counties which gave President Bush between 130,000 and 260,000 or more extra
votes. At issue were Broward, Palm Beach, and Miami Dade counties. In
Broward County alone, Mr. Bush appears to have received 72,000 excess votes.
(See study summary.)
Hout said, "We can be 99.9% sure that these effects are not attributable to
chance."
"....discovered what Dr. Freeman observed: with essentially the same vote
demographics in the absentee votes and the poll votes, there was a sudden
shift of 6.4% of the vote toward the Republican. But when he compared his
data to the Presidential race, he met sheer absurdity. By all standards of
reason, the other two-thirds of the vote should be very close to the same
result, or Kerry should have been behind by 6 points. Instead there was a
sudden and unexplained plummet in the very same electorate of nine points,
which more than doubled Kerry's overall margin of defeat. This meant a 15
point edge for Bush in North Carolina on election day. Read the study and
data here.""
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://scoop.co.nz/mason/features/?s=usacoup Greg Palast - GregPalast.com
November 04, 2004
From: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php
Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes. Typically in the United States, about 3
percent of votes cast are voided-known as "spoilage" in election
jargon-because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Palast's investigation
suggests that if Ohio's discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won
the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of
247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes
plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.
Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the
manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary,
"Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best
Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD .
Kerry won. Here's the facts.
I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I
don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called
American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the
deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.
Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll
showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent.
Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent.
Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.
So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask,
"Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question,
"Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.
Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched
cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded.
This was predictable and it was predicted. [See TomPaine.com, "An Election
Spoiled Rotten," November 1.]
Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to
report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old
and new.
"....If the extra votes were simply added to Mr. Bush's total votes,
his "stuffed" ballots would have added 130,000 votes to his tally and the
county totals should reveal the additional votes by comparing the signed-in
number of voters to the actual votes. If however, 130,000 votes were taken
away from Kerry and converted to the use of Bush, then Bush's net gain would
be 260,000 votes. Bush won Florida by about 311,000 votes, so investigators
would have to locate another 52,000 or more unlawful votes in the state
before Kerry could claim the presidency based on Florida's votes..."
University of California, Berkeley research team headed by Professor Michael
Hout
"Freeman conducts an analysis of Kerry's votes: The likelihood of Kerry
receiving only 47.1% in Florida, given that the exit polls indicated 49.7%
is less than three in one thousand. Although Kerry did carry Pennsylvania,
the likelihood of his receiving only 50.8% given that the exit polls
indicated 54.1% is less than two in one thousand. Similarly the likelihood
of Kerry receiving only 48.5% in Ohio, given the exit polls indicated 52.1%
is less than one in one thousand (.0008).
Freeman says, "The likelihood of any two of these statistical anomalies
occurring together is on the order of one-in-a-million. The odds against all
three occurring together are 250 million to one. As much as we can say in
social science that something is impossible, it is impossible that the
discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three critical
battleground states could have been due to chance or random error."
Freeman concludes his study by making it clear that it is the
"responsibility of the media, academia, polling agencies, and the public to
investigate."" Dr. Steven F. Freeman, faculty member of the University of
Pennsylvania
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
So the poll numbers where inaccurate. This is now well understood
| Quote: | by those knowledgeable in exit polling.
It is completely irresponsible for people to ignore the truth, especially
since it is widely known, about the mistakes made by the exit polling
company (which is used by all the media to save costs). These were not
"random" errors, but easily identified and understood. Just another
attempt
to by the left to falsify the facts, spread lies and conspiracy theories
without a shred of evidence.
|
Of course this is what
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark A
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co6rvv$hdm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
| Quote: |
It is customary for the pollster to take the raw data and adjust it for
the
demographics of the poll sample (those willing to participate) versus
the
demographics of the demographics of those who actually vote. This was
not
done is the recent election (at least not done when the raw data was
released).
Proof this was not done?!!
The polling company admitted it was not done. Part of the problem is that |
dirty tricksters leaked the raw data (before adjusting for demographics) in
order to make it appear that Kerry was winning. This is because some people
will vote for the winner to makes them feel better about who they voted for.
| Quote: | And WHAT are your credentials?
|
I have God given eyes, ears, and a brain.
| Quote: | University of California, Berkeley research team headed by Professor
Michael
Hout told a press conference that a study the team conducted focused on
electronic machine voting in Florida. While all 67 Florida counties were
reviewed, the study shows there is a statistical anomaly in three southern
counties which gave President Bush between 130,000 and 260,000 or more
extra
votes. At issue were Broward, Palm Beach, and Miami Dade counties. In
Broward County alone, Mr. Bush appears to have received 72,000 excess
votes.
(See study summary.)
Hout said, "We can be 99.9% sure that these effects are not attributable
to
chance."
That assumes that the polling sample is random. It is not, as I explained |
previously.
All of the FL counties that you mentioned are strongly controlled by
Democrats. The counties elect the Election Board that runs the election
(don't you remember this from 2000). It is extremely unlikely that an
election run by local Democrats would allow the erroneous results that you
describe.
| Quote: |
Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll
showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent.
Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49
percent.
Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.
All of the news media (including CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc) use the same |
exact company to do the exit polling (so they can save on costs). As I
explained previously, the results of the poll you describe are the raw data,
not adjusted for the true demographics of those voting (reflecting only the
demographics of those who agreed to be polled).
| Quote: | So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters
ask,
"Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial,
question,
"Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.
Not everyone agrees to be polled after voting. Women who are homemakers may |
have more time and are more willing to be exit-polled. People who have jobs
to go to may not have time to participate in an exit poll, especially if
they were waiting a long time in line to vote (which happened more than in
previous years). This would distort the sample because women would be
over-represented in the sample (which they determined is exactly what
happened). The polling company is supposed to adjust the raw data for this
fact, and they admitted that they did not do that.
Also, exit polls do not count Early Voting, or Absentee Voting, which both
traditionally favor Republicans (especially absentee voting from the US
Armed Forces).
There could also have been errors in the sampling technique. We know there
was definitely an error, because the poll includes a larger percentage of
women than actually voted.
Since Bush only won FL and OH by a few percentage points, a slight error in
the polling could account for the discrepancy.
Yes, there is a conspiracy here, namely on the part of the left wing to rig
the election by using faulty exit poll raw data, and then leaking it to the
press before the polls close (to encourage more people to vote for Kerry). I
would like to see an investigation this despicable activity and have those
guilty thrown in jail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jasmine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:BPFpd.4$bu.1580@news.uswest.net...
| Quote: | "Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co6rvv$hdm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
It is customary for the pollster to take the raw data and adjust it for
the
demographics of the poll sample (those willing to participate) versus
the
demographics of the demographics of those who actually vote. This was
not
done is the recent election (at least not done when the raw data was
released).
Proof this was not done?!!
The polling company admitted it was not done.
|
where is a link for this accusation?
snipthese effects are not attributable
| Quote: | to
chance."
That assumes that the polling sample is random. It is not, as I explained
previously.
All of the FL counties that you mentioned are strongly controlled by
Democrats.
|
Proof (or URL) of this accusation?
The counties elect the Election Board that runs the election
| Quote: | (don't you remember this from 2000). It is extremely unlikely that an
election run by local Democrats would allow the erroneous results that you
describe.
|
I
| Quote: |
Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll
showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent.
Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49
percent.
Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.
All of the news media (including CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc) use the
same
exact company to do the exit polling (so they can save on costs). As I
explained previously, the results of the poll you describe are the raw
data,
not adjusted for the true demographics of those voting (reflecting only
the
demographics of those who agreed to be polled).
So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters
ask,
"Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial,
question,
"Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.
Not everyone agrees to be polled after voting. Women who are homemakers
may
have more time and are more willing to be exit-polled. People who have
jobs
to go to may not have time to participate in an exit poll, especially if
they were waiting a long time in line to vote (which happened more than in
previous years). This would distort the sample because women would be
over-represented in the sample (which they determined is exactly what
happened).
|
Morris stated this, but it is not determined. We sill find out soon enough |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark A
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:39 am Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co8qim$b1d$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
| Quote: |
where is a link for this accusation?
This link talks about an analysis by the New York Times: |
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/003016.php
A google search will show many other links.
| Quote: |
All of the FL counties that you mentioned are strongly controlled by
Democrats.
Proof (or URL) of this accusation?
You can't be serious!!!! Were you in diapers during the 2000 election? |
That is when the Democrats who controlled these counties (Broward, Dade, and
Palm Beach) tried in vain to rig the hand recount in favor of Gore.
These Democratic counties only wanted to recount the highly Democratic
precincts (along the beach) in their county but not recount the Hispanic
ones that favored Bush (who typically lived away from the beach). They could
do this because the Democrats controlled the Election Commission in those
counties. They also tried to modify the definition of a valid vote (hanging
chad) after the election, even though different rules were in place before
the election.
But the US Supreme Court ruled 7-2 that if a recount is done in a state, all
counties and all precincts must be recounted. The Supreme Court also ruled
5-4 that there was not enough time to do a full recount and still have FL
meet the safe harbor deadline provision of the constitution that would
prevents the Congress from deciding which electors to seat from the state of
FL.
When the consortium of newspapers spent about 6 months hand counting all the
ballots in the state, it was determined that George Bush would have won if a
full hand recount was done (a full machine recount was done for all counties
before the results were certified). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark A
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark A
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked -The Ukraine .. |
|
|
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co8qim$b1d$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
| Quote: |
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:BPFpd.4$bu.1580@news.uswest.net...
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:co6rvv$hdm$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
It is customary for the pollster to take the raw data and adjust it
for
the
demographics of the poll sample (those willing to participate) versus
the
demographics of the demographics of those who actually vote. This was
not
done is the recent election (at least not done when the raw data was
released).
Proof this was not done?!!
The polling company admitted it was not done.
where is a link for this accusation?
Specific information about women being over-represented in the early exit |
polls:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1269789/posts
"Lenski [vice president of Edison Research, who conducted the exit polls]
said early results were more favorable to Kerry than they were for Bush,
owing in part to the fact that more women then men tend to vote early in an
election and that women in this race favored Kerry.
But he said the size of the Kerry leads attributed to exit polling were
exaggerated by online political pundits known as bloggers, who also appeared
to have ignored the caveats and analysis supplied with the data. "You can
tell that anything that appeared online was not interpreted by anyone that
had a sophisticated understanding of the workings and limitations of early
exit polling," he said.
Early exit polling can be by its nature heavily skewed to one side or
another and is not intended to be used to project races or be reported to
the public, especially before polls close, Lenski said." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Key
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Jasmine" |
|
|
"Jasmine" <jasmineimpeachbush@yahoo.com>
cross-posted, off-topic in message
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Key
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Mark A" |
|
|
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> cross-posted, off-topic in
message
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Key
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Mark A" |
|
|
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Key
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Mark A" |
|
|
"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark A
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Mark A" |
|
|
"'Key" <Keys@Ya.net> wrote in message
news:h24qd.54287$jq5.18850@fe2.texas.rr.com...
| Quote: | "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message..
I did not start this thread, I only replied to the posts by Jasmine. Please |
address you concerns to Jasmine.
Thank You. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
volkfolk
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Evidence Mounts / attn: "Mark A" |
|
|
"'Key" <Keys@Ya.net> wrote in message
news:C14qd.54280$jq5.35757@fe2.texas.rr.com...
| Quote: | "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> cross-posted, off-topic in
message
---snip the cross-posted, off-topic message---
stop cross-posting your shit to groups that don't care
to see your cross-posted, off-topic message...
|
Here is an even better idea.
Don't feed the troll
Scot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in