Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
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Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
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bobby bourbon
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

if there is a shred of evidence the vote was screwed with, anyone who
thinks it should not be investigated does not deserve the freedom they
enjoy.

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Lou
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

On 12 Nov 2004 11:32:45 -0800,
kindsomethingposingasmeatlessnation@hotmail.com (bobby bourbon)
wrote:

Quote:
if there is a shred of evidence the vote was screwed with, anyone who
thinks it should not be investigated does not deserve the freedom they
enjoy.

There is no evidence. Just a bunch of sore losers.
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Joseph Oberlander
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

bobby bourbon wrote:

Quote:
if there is a shred of evidence the vote was screwed with, anyone who
thinks it should not be investigated does not deserve the freedom they
enjoy.

Correct. It's our only way to voice our desires and choice
to the people who run this country on our behalf. It goes
way beyond party lines. If we loose the right to a fair
election, we become no better than any of the dictatorships
that we supposedly are fighting against.

And the thing is - Bush may have won anyway without this being
done by a few over-zealous individuals. Now it is going
to cast a permanent doubt in our election process in
most of the contry's population as well as create a political
mess that will take months to resolve(as if we don't have
enough to do already).

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marinelife
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
|| bobby bourbon wrote:
||
||| if there is a shred of evidence the vote was screwed with, anyone
||| who thinks it should not be investigated does not deserve the
||| freedom they enjoy.
||
|| Correct. It's our only way to voice our desires and choice
|| to the people who run this country on our behalf. It goes
|| way beyond party lines. If we loose the right to a fair
|| election, we become no better than any of the dictatorships
|| that we supposedly are fighting against.
||
|| And the thing is - Bush may have won anyway without this being
|| done by a few over-zealous individuals. Now it is going
|| to cast a permanent doubt in our election process in
|| most of the contry's population as well as create a political
|| mess that will take months to resolve(as if we don't have
|| enough to do already).

The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost. Kerry lost,
NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.
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Irv
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message
news:HEkld.163801$9b.10371@edtnps84...
Quote:

The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost. Kerry lost,
NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.


Bigtime????

Bush won by 2% of the vote...........hardly bigtime, landslide,
mandate......

Please consider that although Bush won the election, he had more people vote
AGAINST him than any other presidential candidate in history.

Most of us have "moved on".....you need to get over yourself and your
opinions.
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Rusty Shackleford
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:14:05 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
<josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:


Quote:
And the thing is - Bush may have won anyway without this being
done by a few over-zealous individuals. Now it is going
to cast a permanent doubt in our election process in
most of the contry's population as well as create a political
mess that will take months to resolve(as if we don't have
enough to do already).

Uh, most of the countries population believes the election was fair.
Bush won, stop whining.
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Lou
Guest





Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:36:48 -0700, "Irv" <steve@mypantsnite.com>
wrote:


Quote:
Please consider that although Bush won the election, he had more people vote
AGAINST him than any other presidential candidate in history.
What's your point? That Kerry still lost?

Most of us have "moved on".....
Perhaps you should as well.
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Irv
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"Lou" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8becp0939srhcecb05arf0u7js59u125q8@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:36:48 -0700, "Irv" <steve@mypantsnite.com
wrote:


Please consider that although Bush won the election, he had more people
vote
AGAINST him than any other presidential candidate in history.
What's your point? That Kerry still lost?

Most of us have "moved on".....

Perhaps you should as well.

I will as long as I don't have to read that kind of bullshit.........

And on the other hand, who the FUCK asked you anyway skippy.....
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Deano
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

Get a life and admit defeat when George W carried the biggest popular vote
in history!

--
FREE Satellite Dish + 4 rooms FREE
www.get-dish-tv-fast.com/
"Jas" <jasimpeachdubya@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cmsl3q$cpr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Quote:
Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked

by Thom Hartmann http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00102.htm
When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004),
the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from
Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher
has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but
of
who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these
same
people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that
Jeb
Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat
to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.

And some believe evidence is accumulating that the national effort
happened
on November 2, 2004.

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of
votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen
Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available
at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something
startling.

While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to
produce
results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios largely matched
the Kerry/Bush vote, in Florida's counties using results from optically
scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus
vulnerable
to hacking - the results seem to contain substantial anomalies.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them
Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry
and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the
country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and
a
mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but
4,433 voted for Bush.

The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the counties where
optical scanners were used. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats,
went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went
77.25%
for Bush.

Yet in the touch-screen counties, where investigators may have been more
vigorously looking for such anomalies, high percentages of registered
Democrats generally equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry. (I had
earlier reported that county size was a variable - this turns out not to
be
the case. Just the use of touch-screens versus optical scanners.)

More visual analysis of the results can be seen at
http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm, and
http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm. Note the trend line -
the only variable that determines a swing toward Bush was the use of
optical
scan machines.

One possible explanation for this is the "Dixiecrat" theory, that in
Florida
white voters (particularly the rural ones) have been registered as
Democrats
for years, but voting Republican since Reagan. Looking at the 2000
statistics, also available on Dopp's site, there are similar anomalies,
although the trends are not as strong as in 2004. But some suggest the
2000
election may have been questionable in Florida, too.

One of the people involved in Dopp's analysis noted that it may be
possible
to determine the validity of the "rural Democrat" theory by comparing
Florida's white rural counties to those of Pennsylvania, another swing
state
but one that went for Kerry, as the exit polls there predicted.
Interestingly, the Pennsylvania analysis, available at
http://ustogether.org/election04/PA_vote_patt.htm, doesn't show the same
kind of swings as does Florida, lending credence to the possibility of
problems in Florida.

Even more significantly, Dopp had first run the analysis while filtering
out
smaller (rural) counties, and still found that the only variable that
accounted for a swing toward Republican voting was the use of optical-scan
machines, whereas counties with touch-screen machines generally didn't
swing - regardless of size.

Others offer similar insights, based on other data. A professor at the
University of Massachusetts, Amherst, noted that in Florida the vote to
raise the minimum wage was approved by 72%, although Kerry got 48%. "The
correlation between voting for the minimum wage increase and voting for
Kerry isn't likely to be perfect," he noted, "but one would normally
expect
that the gap - of 1.5 million votes - to be far smaller than it was."

While all of this may or may not be evidence of vote tampering, it again
brings the nation back to the question of why several states using
electronic voting machines or scanners programmed by private, for-profit
corporations and often connected to modems produced votes inconsistent
with
exit poll numbers.

Those exit poll results have been a problem for reporters ever since
Election Day.

Election night, I'd been doing live election coverage for WDEV, one of the
radio stations that carries my syndicated show, and, just after midnight,
during the 12:20 a.m. Associated Press Radio News feed, I was startled to
hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush
down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear:
Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted
the
AP report.

But then the computers reported something different. In several pivotal
states.

Conservatives see a conspiracy here: They think the exit polls were
rigged.

Dick Morris, the infamous political consultant to the first Clinton
campaign
who became a Republican consultant and Fox News regular, wrote an article
for The Hill, the publication read by every political junkie in
Washington,
DC, in which he made a couple of brilliant points.

"Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Morris wrote. "They eliminate the two
major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating
actual
voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by
substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative
turnout of different parts of the state."

He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was
slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all
of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush
was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points."

Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as
the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the
election was called for Bush.

How could this happen?

On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard
Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris,
the Seattle grandmother who started www.blackboxvoting.org from her living
room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated (other
than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in Vermont),
the
real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold Opti-Scan machines,
which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in the voter's hand,
or
the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines that simply record a
touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is sent to a "central
tabulator" machine.

That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC.

"In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television,
"you
have all the different voting machines at all the different polling
places,
sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in
a
single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add
up
all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you
shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to
each
of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at
once?"

Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises
people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I
use.
It's just a regular computer."

"So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central
tabulator?"

Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program
called
GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it into the
central tabulator system. "This is the official program that the County
Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting between them
loaded with Diebold's software.

Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test
election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and
waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various
precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000
votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning.

"Of course, you can't tamper with this software," Harris noted. Diebold
wrote a pretty good program.

But, it's running on a Windows PC.

So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal
Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk
C:,"
open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB" which,
Harris
noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes."
Harris
then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled "Central
Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database
program like Excel.

In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one
precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400.

"Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers
from one cell into the other. "And," she added magnanimously, "let's give
100 votes to Tiger."

They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the
legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the
progress of your election."

As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And
you
can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900, and
Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser.

Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an
election, and it took us 90 seconds."

On live national television. (You can see the clip on www.votergate.tv.)
And
they had left no tracks whatsoever, Harris said, noting that it would be
nearly impossible for the election software - or a County election
official - to know that the vote database had been altered.

Which brings us back to Morris and those pesky exit polls that had Karen
Hughes telling George W. Bush that he'd lost the election in a landslide.

Morris's conspiracy theory is that the exit polls "were sabotage" to cause
people in the western states to not bother voting for Bush, since the
networks would call the election based on the exit polls for Kerry. But
the
networks didn't do that, and had never intended to.

According to congressional candidate Fisher, it makes far more sense that
the exit polls were right - they weren't done on Diebold PCs - and that
the
vote itself was hacked.

And not only for the presidential candidate - Jeff Fisher thinks this hit
him and pretty much every other Democratic candidate for national office
in
the most-hacked swing states.

So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story
was
Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted that
it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far uncovered
seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and other media
are
now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to explain how the
exit polls had failed.

But I agree with Fox's Dick Morris on this one, at least in large part.
Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph,
"This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board
as
they were on election night. I suspect foul play."

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marinelife
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

Irv wrote:
|| "marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message
|| news:HEkld.163801$9b.10371@edtnps84...
|||
||| The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost.
||| Kerry lost, NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.
|||
||
|| Bigtime????
||
|| Bush won by 2% of the vote...........hardly bigtime, landslide,
|| mandate......
||
|| Please consider that although Bush won the election, he had more
|| people vote AGAINST him than any other presidential candidate in
|| history.
||
|| Most of us have "moved on".....you need to get over yourself and your
|| opinions.

Pot. Kettle. Black, you loser.
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frenchy
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message news:<HEkld.163801$> ||
Quote:
The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost. Kerry lost,
NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.

Truth be told, Gore TRIED to steal the election and failed, then when
it didn't work and it was so close, they figured what the hell, let's
claim Bush stole it. Now Bush wins by a crushing 3.5 million votes
and Dems haven't said one word about the total national vote total
like they did when Gore squeaked by with a lot less than that. We are
all sick of this crap, get on with life, Bush won, the end, pick
somebody who isn't a stonefaced Frankensteinface bore to run next
time...Frenchy
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Irv
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"Deano" <deane@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:9Oidnf2vhdlwKAvcRVn-uA@adelphia.com...

Quote:
Get a life and admit defeat when George W carried the biggest popular vote
in history!

And also had more votes cast AGAINST him than any other president in
history.

He won by a 2% margin........a very slim margin in the grand scheme of
things. So quit acting like his re-election is some sort of a mandate or
something.

So...you may need to get a life and admit that your candidate barely
squeeked into office.
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Bob G.
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

Quote:

I will as long as I don't have to read that kind of bullshit.........

And on the other hand, who the FUCK asked you anyway skippy.....


PA-LUNK !
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Irv
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message
news:NHBld.168670$9b.145924@edtnps84...
Quote:
Irv wrote:
|| "marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message
|| news:HEkld.163801$9b.10371@edtnps84...
|||
||| The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost.
||| Kerry lost, NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.
|||
||
|| Bigtime????
||
|| Bush won by 2% of the vote...........hardly bigtime, landslide,
|| mandate......
||
|| Please consider that although Bush won the election, he had more
|| people vote AGAINST him than any other presidential candidate in
|| history.
||
|| Most of us have "moved on".....you need to get over yourself and your
|| opinions.

Pot. Kettle. Black, you loser.

Couldn't think of anything intelligent to say??

Figures.......no wonder you bought all of Bush's BS.
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Irv
Guest





Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked Reply with quote

"frenchy" <mf101723@aol.com> wrote in message
news:49a3ceb0.0411132321.197ce424@posting.google.com...
Quote:
"marinelife" <marinelife@water.com> wrote in message news:<HEkld.163801$
||
The ONLY doubt is YOUR inability to accept reality. Gore lost. Kerry
lost,
NEOLIBS lost, big time. MOVE ON.

Truth be told, Gore TRIED to steal the election and failed, then when
it didn't work and it was so close, they figured what the hell, let's
claim Bush stole it. Now Bush wins by a crushing 3.5 million votes
and Dems haven't said one word about the total national vote total
like they did when Gore squeaked by with a lot less than that. We are
all sick of this crap, get on with life, Bush won, the end, pick
somebody who isn't a stonefaced Frankensteinface bore to run next
time...Frenchy

You post is total bullshit.....

Please explain to us all how a 2% margin of victory for Bush could be
construed as "CRUSHING"?? A 2% margin of victory is barely squeeking into
office........Bush had more votes cast AGAINST him than any other president
in history.

In 2000 the democrats made every attempt to have ALL of the votes
counted.....the enron lawyers (even flew into florida on the enron company
jet) for the republican party took it to court (all the way to the supremes)
to halt the count of the votes.

Please get it right if you're going to talk about it........revisionist
history is for the birds, although as they say....the victors write the
history.
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