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Martin²
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 Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:33 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Phil:
| Quote: | My guess is that a Porsche is designed by engineers, not accountants
like some other automobile manufacturers
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It was true until Wiedeking, an accountant, took over, the Boxster was
designed and build to a price point,
similarly the 996 was cheaper to build then the 993.
It's only recently that the engineers have been able to improve the Boxster
and the 911 / 997, but the quality and
customer service is still far from the first class we would expect.
Regards,
Martin
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:47 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Actually, all those you mentioned, except Porsche 911 are
mid-engined........as are most formula cars, dragsters, etc |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Although a fine Porsche, not considered THE Porsche.......
Front engine, rear tranny, used by some great marques!
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:50 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Have owned a '63 356B S90, T6, '87 928S4, '91 964 coupe, '98 Boxster, and
2000 996
Joe |
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Devils944S2
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:54 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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<What Porsche do you own? I have a 2002 996 and my experience has been that
most folks who knock the 911 haven't lived with one.>
Jim, I got to put the "tamer" 996 to the test and actually prefer it over
the air cooled models. Put me firmly in the "like" column for the 996.
When I was in the market to upgrade my original 1984 944 back in 1999, I
drove several of the 911 variants (a few SC's, Carrera's and a 964 or two)
and found the 944S2 to be the best of the lot. Not the best economic choice
because of the resale values of the 911 series, but I wasn't as interested
in having the "right" Porsche as much as I was interested in having the best
performing Porsche for the money.
"Jim Keenan" <jtk3@cox.net> wrote in message
news:nOM9e.28574$lv1.13719@fed1read06...
| Quote: |
josephgliebe@bellsouth.net wrote:
Again, some of you guys are not going to like this,(and I am a Porsche
owner and fan), but it costs a lot of engineering bucks to make as fine a
car as Porsche does because they are constantly improving a
well-engineered car that started with a not-so-good engineering
idea.....rear engine.
OK let's hear the rebuttals'
Thanks,
Joe
The Boxster is not rear engined, nor is the Cayenne, and they account for
well over half of Porsche's total annual production. The soon-to-be
introduced Cayman is a Boxster coupe.
Porsche produces relatively few vehicles annually and the R&D, labor,
materials and other costs of production, plus a profit, have to be
realized from this small pool of products. That's what makes them
expensive, not the design of the company's flagship. A design, by the way,
that has proven itself in competition and in the marketplace for decades.
What Porsche do you own? I have a 2002 996 and my experience has been that
most folks who knock the 911 haven't lived with one. |
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Sheldon
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:54 am Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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"Steve Travis" <steve.travis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqWdnf0TKr_hmvrfRVn-rg@comcast.com...
| Quote: | josephgliebe@bellsouth.net wrote:
Again, some of you guys are not going to like this,(and I am a Porsche
owner and fan), but it costs a lot of engineering bucks to make as fine a
car as Porsche does because they are constantly improving a
well-engineered car that started with a not-so-good engineering
idea.....rear engine.
OK let's hear the rebuttals'
Don't most real sports/race cars have rear/mid engine designs? :)
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Yes, but not "behind" the rear axle. It's what makes a 911 a challenge to
drive, but when driven well... |
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Dan Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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In article <42684668$0$549$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
Martin² <never@give.one> wrote:
| Quote: | Phil:
My guess is that a Porsche is designed by engineers, not accountants
like some other automobile manufacturers
It was true until Wiedeking, an accountant, took over, the Boxster was
designed and build to a price point,
similarly the 996 was cheaper to build then the 993.
It's only recently that the engineers have been able to improve the Boxster
and the 911 / 997, but the quality and
customer service is still far from the first class we would expect.
Regards,
Martin
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Well I'm glad the Boxster hit a price point, because it meant I could
get one. And boy is it fun to drive.
Serious question - do Carreras turn harder than the Boxster? C4 vs.
C2? I know they have bigger tires but I wondered if the rear vs. mid
engine made some difference.
--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda |
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Jim Keenan
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Dan Stephenson wrote:
| Quote: |
Well I'm glad the Boxster hit a price point, because it meant I could
get one. And boy is it fun to drive.
Serious question - do Carreras turn harder than the Boxster? C4 vs.
C2? I know they have bigger tires but I wondered if the rear vs. mid
engine made some difference.
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I had a Boxster loaner once when the 996 (C2) was in for service. Nice
car - felt lighter than the 996 and seemed to turn in a little easier, a
little more agile, but not much.
Didn't like the huge blind spot (for me) at the C pillar and the car was
not as comfortable due to limited seatback reclining (I'm 6'2"). It also
could have used more power. |
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Jim Keenan
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Devils944S2 wrote:
| Quote: | What Porsche do you own? I have a 2002 996 and my experience has been that
most folks who knock the 911 haven't lived with one.
Jim, I got to put the "tamer" 996 to the test and actually prefer it over
the air cooled models. Put me firmly in the "like" column for the 996.
When I was in the market to upgrade my original 1984 944 back in 1999, I
drove several of the 911 variants (a few SC's, Carrera's and a 964 or two)
and found the 944S2 to be the best of the lot. Not the best economic choice
because of the resale values of the 911 series, but I wasn't as interested
in having the "right" Porsche as much as I was interested in having the best
performing Porsche for the money.
Devs: |
I've always liked the 911, but if disposable income had caught up with
MSRP, I'd have gladly jumped into a 944 or 928 in their heyday. Drove a
friend's 944 once - marvelously balanced car. Had to make due with a
240Z then a 280ZX Turbo until 2001, when we ordered the 996 with a load
of options.
I've driven 964s and 993s, and the 996 does feel different. It's not as
"edgy" as the earlier cars and to me at least, the 996 is more
comfortable, so "tamer" is duly noted. I think the 996 moved more toward
the GT side of the ledger as opposed to "sports car" than earlier 911s,
and the 997 has apparently moved back.
The 996 isn't a slouch, though, particularly the 2002 and later cars
with the 3.6 engine. 4.6/4.8 seconds to 60, quarter mile in low-to-mid
13 seconds, .90+ G on the skidpad with standard suspension and right at
1.0 with sport suspension, and top speed of 177. It's enough car for me,
at least until I drive the 997 Carrera S that I can't afford.
However, if a really clean, late model year 928GTS with low miles popped
up at a good price, we'd be tempted to become a two-Porsche family..... |
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E Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:08:46 -0700, Jim Keenan <jtk3@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I've driven 964s and 993s, and the 996 does feel different. It's not as
"edgy" as the earlier cars and to me at least, the 996 is more
comfortable, so "tamer" is duly noted. I think the 996 moved more toward
the GT side of the ledger as opposed to "sports car" than earlier 911s,
and the 997 has apparently moved back.
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I think definitely the 996 is similar to the last of the 928s - a
GT. I'm not so sure the 997 has moved back, though. I'm curious about
how the Cayman drives - I think it might be a *serious* sports car.
Emanuel
--
1983 Porsche 944 Guards Red/Black
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black |
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Philip K
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:15:50 -0700, "fbloogyudsr"
<fbloogyudsr@nwlink.com> wrote:
| Quote: | No. Ferrari has mid and front engines. Lambo and most others
are mid. Porsche has rear (911 et. al.) and mid (Boxster).
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You're forgetting the Cayenne, which is front engined.
| Quote: | Other
than the DeLoren, almost no other cars than 911 use rear.
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Tatra? Skoda?
--
Philip K
Hertfordshire, England
1989 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe
1995 BMW ///M5 |
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Dan Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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In article <u26ae.29163$lv1.12528@fed1read06>, Jim Keenan
<jtk3@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Didn't like the huge blind spot (for me) at the C pillar and the car was
not as comfortable due to limited seatback reclining (I'm 6'2"). It also
could have used more power.
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What is a C pillar?
Yeah, at the time I bought it, it seemed like a dangerous amount of
power considering I was coming from a Toyota Corrolla. But now I wish
I could have that 'hand of God pushing on your back' kind of feeling.
Thanks for the feedback, know that my Boxster is pretty much the tops
of most anything when it comes to hard turning gives me a perspective I
did not have before.
--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda |
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Dan Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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In article <yH6ae.29164$lv1.1724@fed1read06>, Jim Keenan <jtk3@cox.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
I've driven 964s and 993s, and the 996 does feel different. It's not as
"edgy" as the earlier cars and to me at least, the 996 is more
comfortable, so "tamer" is duly noted. I think the 996 moved more toward
the GT side of the ledger as opposed to "sports car" than earlier 911s,
and the 997 has apparently moved back.
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What do you mean by "GT side" as opposed to "sports car"?
--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda |
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Dan Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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In article <9u4i61lodk39ik080usrdph4qnmc511p47@4ax.com>, E Brown
<epbrown01@att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I think definitely the 996 is similar to the last of the 928s - a
GT. I'm not so sure the 997 has moved back, though. I'm curious about
how the Cayman drives - I think it might be a *serious* sports car.
Emanuel
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In a couple of years, I'd be mighty tempted if that engine found its
way into a Boxster... a 300 hp Boxster... wow.
--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda |
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Steve Travis
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Why are Porsches expensive? |
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Dan Stephenson wrote:
| Quote: | In article <9u4i61lodk39ik080usrdph4qnmc511p47@4ax.com>, E Brown
epbrown01@att.net> wrote:
I think definitely the 996 is similar to the last of the 928s - a
GT. I'm not so sure the 997 has moved back, though. I'm curious about
how the Cayman drives - I think it might be a *serious* sports car.
Emanuel
In a couple of years, I'd be mighty tempted if that engine found its
way into a Boxster... a 300 hp Boxster... wow.
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Well, depending on how 'handy' you are, and if you're a fiddler, you can
get almost there now.
http://www.turboperformance.com/Porsche/SCKits/BSC/Boxster.htm
Personally, I like my Boxster as is. The Cayman looks like it will be a
sweet car, so I can't wait for my invite to test drive it. |
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