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tech27
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:r8fbq0t0cpgq4f2qk04vvai7j1s61h2k18@4ax.com...

Quote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:59:23 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
worse than any other car in that respect. Stability control actually
makes it *better* in some respects.

Yes and no. Stability control should actually be turned off in many
situations. BMW even mentions this in materials and at the driving schools.
If you lose traction going into a turn DSC will actually try to keep you
going straight instead of around the turn. You won't be able to throttle
steer because it won't let you swing the back end around to make the corner.
Going up slipper slopes, like a hill or driveway, is impossible if you lose
traction. Once both wheels start spinning DSC will throttle you down. Plus,
the big fat tires just ride up on the snow.

Quote:

This may be the *real* reason, methinks. So what's the annual cost of
insuring it?

It's not that bad, less than $4k a year IIRC. But since I have several cars,
including an M3, Saturn Vue and Toyota Camry, I'm happy to put the Beast
away for the really crappy weather and not worry about salt damage in and
out. I had a 540 that I drove in the winter and it just wasn't very good. So
the 4 wheel drive Saturn or the FWD Camry do just fine.

> Dan Drake

Dan Drake
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:03:41 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Quote:

"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:r8fbq0t0cpgq4f2qk04vvai7j1s61h2k18@4ax.com...

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:59:23 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Stability control actually
makes it *better* in some respects.

Yes and no. Stability control should actually be turned off in many
situations. BMW even mentions this

So, the real issue is being able to control the car, with or without
traction control, etc. Where does not being able to "feather the
throttle" on the M5 fit in to all that? There are other cars that are
far less suited to snow and ice than the M5 is. Two such are laid up
in my garage for the winter, even as I type this.

Quote:

This may be the *real* reason, methinks. So what's the annual cost of
insuring it?

It's not that bad, less than $4k a year IIRC.

IIRC? Excuse me, is it $4K (Canadian?) or - what? Surely, you must
know? $4K Canadian doesn't sound like a king's ransom. So, insurance
cost is not really a reason either?

Quote:

So
the 4 wheel drive Saturn or the FWD Camry do just fine.

I'm beginning to suspect that your M5 might just be a piece of garage
jewelry, a bragging point, if you like. That's why you referred to it
as "the beast."

"Beast," my ass. It's drivable, even in snow and ice, if you know
what you're doing. If it's not your daily driver then it damned well
should be, unless you have some weird notion that it's an investment,
and you're somehow going to get your money back on it.

Saturn? Toyota? Happy motoring.
--
Dan Drake

tech27
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:7hscq0925bp05h4iftasdl97oa28cg3pvq@4ax.com...

Quote:

:

Stability control actually
makes it *better* in some respects.

Yes and no. Stability control should actually be turned off in many
situations. BMW even mentions this

So, the real issue is being able to control the car, with or without
traction control, etc. Where does not being able to "feather the
throttle" on the M5 fit in to all that?

Forget that comment. All I really meant was that you have to be extra
careful with a 400hp car in the snow. At least I do.

There are other cars that are

Quote:

far less suited to snow and ice than the M5 is. Two such are laid up
in my garage for the winter, even as I type this.

No argument there. You could do a lot worse for a winter driver.

Quote:

This may be the *real* reason, methinks. So what's the annual cost of
insuring it?

It's not that bad, less than $4k a year IIRC.

IIRC? Excuse me, is it $4K (Canadian?) or - what? Surely, you must
know? $4K Canadian doesn't sound like a king's ransom. So, insurance
cost is not really a reason either?

I didn't go look up what the M5 premium was, so I just guessed. I know what
my annual premium is but that is for 5 cars. I could be way off.

Quote:

So
the 4 wheel drive Saturn or the FWD Camry do just fine.

I'm beginning to suspect that your M5 might just be a piece of garage
jewelry, a bragging point, if you like. That's why you referred to it
as "the beast."

Why are you trying to pick a fight with me.? Everyone on the M5 board refers
to the M5 as "The Beast". "Beastpower" is a respected dealer for M5 parts,
mods, etc. It's just what M5 owners say. Like the M5 2 finger salute (1st
and index finger up - signifying pushing the DCS button OFF and the SPORT
mode button ON).

Quote:

"Beast," my ass. It's drivable, even in snow and ice, if you know
what you're doing. If it's not your daily driver then it damned well
should be, unless you have some weird notion that it's an investment,
and you're somehow going to get your money back on it.

I've only ever purchase 2 vehicles as an investment, and I did make some
money (not a lot) , but I hardly drove them. Both were Ferrari's. I wouldn't
do it again. Too hard to not want to drive them a lot, and I don't see cars
as investments unless you have a ton of money to buy a lot of them and keep
them for more than a year or two. Like wine. I buy what I like and I drink
it to enjoy it, not look at it and sell it.

Quote:

Saturn? Toyota? Happy motoring.

Thanks. My wife has the Saturn. I'm not happy with the Toyota, but it's good
for shitty winter weather with salt and slush spraying around. But I know
what you mean. I went to my BMW dealer tonight to look at the X3 and X5, but
I don't know. I'm really not an SUV guy. I also drove a 325ix, but I found
it uninspiring. Maybe I should just get some killer snow tires for the M5?

Quote:

--
Dan Drake

Dan Drake
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:14:33 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Quote:

Maybe I should just get some killer snow tires for the M5?

Now there's a good idea...
--
Dan Drake

Fred W
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

tech27 wrote:

Quote:

It's not that bad, less than $4k a year IIRC.

Are you kidding? $4k per year (even C$) for insurance on a single car
is horrible IMHO.

I insure all 5 of my cars for $3200 (US). Now you can perhaps see why I
would not bother to remove the insurance on my one "summer only" car (Z3
roadster)

OTOH, your M5 (fairly new AFAIR) is undoubtedly worth more than all of
my cars put together. ;^)

-Fred W

tech27
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Fred W" <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:LpWdneeum7V7uTrcRVn-rQ@adelphia.com...

Quote:

Dan Drake wrote:
..

Not a very wise position IMO, Dan. Yes, an M5 is "driveable" in snow, but
that doesn't mean that you have to. There are cars that are far better
suited to those conditions and which may hit you a tad lighter in the
wallet when the inevitable schmoe slides into you. You sound perhaps like
someone who has not spent much time driving in real winter conditions.

Also, where is it written that one must make their best car their daily
driver? If I were fortunate enough to have a new M5 (or an old one for
that matter), I can tell you that there is no way in hell that I would
drive it in city traffic on a daily basis. I *would* take it out on the
highways and back roads for a solid thrashing on a regular basis, but
somehow I don't think competing for lane space in downtown Boston with a
beat up taxicab is what the Motorsport designers had in mind as a
"purpose" for the E39 M5.

-Fred W

Thanks for the support FW - but the M5 IS my daily driver, grocery getter,
etc. except in the winter. When the weather is nice I just can't resist
driving it even for mundane reasons. I've also taken it to the track, but
it's a tad heavy to throw around. I have an track prepped M3 for that. And
the M5 is SUCH A CHICK MAGNET! But I can only take one babe at a time
because the back seat has 2 baby seats in it all the time. Does that say
"PLAYBOY" or what? (-;

tech27
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:1j9eq09u3bde04kpspreu17rcf1na6nclv@4ax.com...

Quote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:42:21 -0500, Fred W
Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote:

Dan Drake wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:03:41 -0500, "tech27"
Also, where is it written that one must make their best car their daily
driver?

That's a specious argument. Where is it written that one *mustn't* do
that? Where is it written that life should be fair? &c., &c.

Hey guys!! Where is it written that one can't decide for themselves what
weather conditions they want to or don't want to drive in?

Quote:

I *would* take it out on the
highways and back roads for a solid thrashing on a regular basis, but
somehow I don't think competing for lane space in downtown Boston with a
beat up taxicab is what the Motorsport designers had in mind as a
"purpose" for the E39 M5.

Dents and dings can be knocked out of it, and after a $150 detailing
job, the starry-eyed next owner won't know the difference.
--
Dan Drake

Note to self: Don't ever buy a used car from Dan Drake.

Dan Drake
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:10:45 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Quote:

Note to self: Don't ever buy a used car from Dan Drake.

See? Even *you* can catch on, if you try.
--
Dan Drake

Somebody
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:VyHpd.27635$NC6.1635@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...

Quote:

that much for the next x years. So stupid. I just had a guy hit my rear
bumper ever so lightly. Not a big deal, tiny 3" crack in the finish and a
spec of paint chipped off. The guy was in a shitbox. He wanted to report
it
to his insurance, I suggested he pay me what he could in cash. He said he
couldn't and insisted we contact our insurers. I just said never mind and
good day. Remember - it's no fault up here so they don't care who's fault
it
is, only how many claims you have. So fucked up some provinces have
government insurance now.

I'm in Ontario. It's "no fault" but that just means it's your own company
that pays out your claim. There is still fault recorded with each incident,
and if you are zero percent at fault, it will not impact your record at all.
Furthermore when it is not your fault you do not pay any decductible at all.
Your insurance rates will not go up if you are the unfortunate target of
several idiots in a short time span. The incidental charges (your
deductible, the car rental, etc) are actually covered by the other party's
insurance -- provided they have it! If they don't, you will be responsible
for those items, either by buying "other party not insured" coverage, which
is dirt, dirt cheap, and/or loss of vehicle coverage, which is reasonably
cheap. But the payout in a zero fault case does not change your record.
That would not make sense.

I know that I am correct on this, in Ontario at least. YMMV if you're in a
different province. I don't carry collision on my car and I was hit through
zero fault of my own. It cost over $4300 to fix my 15 year old, 300,000km
iX, and I paid zero out of pocket and had no change to my rates as a result.
Plus a rental for a month, which was covered by the other insurance company
since I did not have loss of vehicle coverage.

Pics for the morbidly curious :-)

http://www.russdoucet.com/ouch/overall-rear.jpg
http://www.russdoucet.coc/ouch/ix-shredded.jpg
http://www.russdoucet.com/ouch/ix-ready-to-pain.jpg
http://www.russdoucet.com/ouch/fixed2.jpg

-Russ.

Fred W
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

Dan Drake wrote:

Quote:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:03:41 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

So
the 4 wheel drive Saturn or the FWD Camry do just fine.

I'm beginning to suspect that your M5 might just be a piece of garage
jewelry, a bragging point, if you like. That's why you referred to it
as "the beast."

"Beast," my ass. It's drivable, even in snow and ice, if you know
what you're doing. If it's not your daily driver then it damned well
should be, unless you have some weird notion that it's an investment,
and you're somehow going to get your money back on it.

Saturn? Toyota? Happy motoring.

Not a very wise position IMO, Dan. Yes, an M5 is "driveable" in snow,
but that doesn't mean that you have to. There are cars that are far
better suited to those conditions and which may hit you a tad lighter in
the wallet when the inevitable schmoe slides into you. You sound
perhaps like someone who has not spent much time driving in real winter
conditions.

Also, where is it written that one must make their best car their daily
driver? If I were fortunate enough to have a new M5 (or an old one for
that matter), I can tell you that there is no way in hell that I would
drive it in city traffic on a daily basis. I *would* take it out on the
highways and back roads for a solid thrashing on a regular basis, but
somehow I don't think competing for lane space in downtown Boston with a
beat up taxicab is what the Motorsport designers had in mind as a
"purpose" for the E39 M5.

-Fred W

Dan Drake
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:42:21 -0500, Fred W
<Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote:

Quote:

Dan Drake wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:03:41 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

"Beast," my ass. It's drivable, even in snow and ice, if you know
what you're doing.

Not a very wise position IMO, Dan. Yes, an M5 is "driveable" in snow,
but that doesn't mean that you have to.

It's drivable in snow. That's my point exactly. My irritation stems
from those who are in awe of it and who would coddle it like it was a
rare and valuable car.

Quote:

You sound
perhaps like someone who has not spent much time driving in real winter
conditions.

I think that Switzerland and Scandinavia have "real winter
conditions," don't you?

Quote:

Also, where is it written that one must make their best car their daily
driver?

That's a specious argument. Where is it written that one *mustn't* do
that? Where is it written that life should be fair? &c., &c.

Quote:

There, you're flat wrong. It's designed and built to be perfectly
happy doing either.

Dents and dings can be knocked out of it, and after a $150 detailing
job, the starry-eyed next owner won't know the difference.
--
Dan Drake

tech27
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Fred W" <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:8OudnTJaXI8MvDrcRVn-1A@adelphia.com...

Quote:

tech27 wrote:

It's not that bad, less than $4k a year IIRC.

Are you kidding? $4k per year (even C$) for insurance on a single car is
horrible IMHO.

Yeah, and I have a good record - only had the M5 since this summer so that
may change )-;
But car insurance is so bad up here guys with nice cars routinely go for a
deductible of $500-$1000, since you really can't get any decent body work
done for less than that, and putting in a claim will raise your insurance
that much for the next x years. So stupid. I just had a guy hit my rear
bumper ever so lightly. Not a big deal, tiny 3" crack in the finish and a
spec of paint chipped off. The guy was in a shitbox. He wanted to report it
to his insurance, I suggested he pay me what he could in cash. He said he
couldn't and insisted we contact our insurers. I just said never mind and
good day. Remember - it's no fault up here so they don't care who's fault it
is, only how many claims you have. So fucked up some provinces have
government insurance now.

Quote:

I insure all 5 of my cars for $3200 (US). Now you can perhaps see why I
would not bother to remove the insurance on my one "summer only" car (Z3
roadster)

Lucky bastard!

Quote:

OTOH, your M5 (fairly new AFAIR) is undoubtedly worth more than all of my
cars put together. ;^)

No doubt. From what I can tell by the premiums I pay my car should be worth
about $850,000.00!!! )-;

tech27
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in message
news:jUJpd.85118$vO1.493750@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Quote:

What you say sounds like the way it should be. But I'm sure I've heard that
your rates will still go up on account of you being unlucky, if not at
fault.

Who knows? It's too damn expensive anyway. I would guess that over my
insured life to date my insurers have paid out way less than 10% of the
total premiums. 90% is a pretty damn good profit margin in ANY business.

Dave Plowman (News)
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

In article <JSSpd.27684$NC6.10476@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
tech27 <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:

Quote:

Who knows? It's too damn expensive anyway. I would guess that over my
insured life to date my insurers have paid out way less than 10% of the
total premiums. 90% is a pretty damn good profit margin in ANY business.

I've claimed *once* in many years driving. For a dent in a door caused
while parked. Total cost about 1/3rd of the year's premium. And guess
what? They tried to recover near that amount by the increase in the next
year's premium.

--
*OK, who stopped payment on my reality check?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tech27
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Charging

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d145ea7cadave@davenoise.co.uk...

Quote:

What did you expect? It's obviously your fault for parking your car!
Insurance is for driving a car, not parking it! Clearly if you never drove
your car and only had it parked somewhere you wouldn't need insurance. Of
course, if someone stole or burned your car, you should be covered, but
trying to defraud an insurance company with some silly "Someone hit my car
while I was parked" scam is just too much. Shame on you! Insurance companies
can barely keep their profits doubling year to year as it is!!!

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