| Author |
Message |
Matt O'Toole
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:20 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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tech27 wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit
that cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle
charging can cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there
is no over-charge protection.
|
The very definition of trickle charging is current low enough to avoid that.
You're only supplying enough to offset self-discharge and whatever other low
drain is present. With a lead acid battery, as long as the voltage is precisely
controlled, they'll draw exactly what they need. A cycling charger is
unnecessary.
It's actually quite a bit cheaper to make a cycling charger than a good voltage
regulator, which is why there are so many cycling ones on the market.
Matt O.
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dizzy
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:33 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair weather)
would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do) run that
risk.
Exhaust and internals. Anything that air can get to can potentially get
moisture and corrosives as the water reacts to other compounds.
|
Then you'd better not drive your car. Ever. After all, "moisture"
will be the inevitable result of that activity.
I'm in the camp of taking if for a good drive a couple times in the
Winter. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | You'd think by all the hype on certain websites there were some new
inventions in lead acid batteries and chargers. There's not - the
technology is as old as the hills. Merely some fine tuning - which
they try and 'charge' ;-) dearly for.
|
Actually, the spiral wound, thin metal foil lead-acids like Cyclons are pretty
revolutionary. A little "D" cell can deliver 80A. I have a pack made of 6 of
these that I can start a car with.
Lead acids still can't be beat for some applications. One of its main
advantages is simple float charging.
| Quote: | Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer
lasting than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in
all probability.
|
Not until they find a way to make lead less heavy!
Matt O.
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Dan Drake
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:52:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer lasting
than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in all probability.
|
But they're pretty good/nothing better for certain applications. I use
a couple of small sealed lead/acid batteries for my photography
flashguns. They're old but I love 'em. They seem to be infinitely
rechargeable, and they're as reliable and predictable as all hell.
--
Dan Drake |
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Dan Drake
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:53:37 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:33 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair weather)
would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do) run that
risk.
Exhaust and internals. Anything that air can get to can potentially get
moisture and corrosives as the water reacts to other compounds.
Then you'd better not drive your car. Ever. After all, "moisture"
will be the inevitable result of that activity.
I'm in the camp of taking if for a good drive a couple times in the
Winter.
|
Drive the frickin' thing year round in all weathers, fer chrissakes.
I do that with mine - they're just cars, when all is said and done.
Accept the inevitable. You are probably going to live longer than
your car(s) will. You only go around once, and so do cars, for the
most part.
--
Dan Drake |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:3lbaq0178c9decs1nds2sjk6phjmrfrou2@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:52:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer lasting
than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in all
probability.
But they're pretty good/nothing better for certain applications. I use
a couple of small sealed lead/acid batteries for my photography
flashguns. They're old but I love 'em. They seem to be infinitely
rechargeable, and they're as reliable and predictable as all hell.
--
Dan Drake
|
Not surprising. Low current applications hardly bother these types of
batteries at all. |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30k9emF31pne1U1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | tech27 wrote:
But if it's damp where the car is stored,
it may make sense to warm it up and dry it all out occasionally.
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I suppose, but we're talking about engine and system internals. |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d130c5aa9dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <QX5pd.27329$NC6.5037@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
tech27 <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit
that cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle
charging can cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there is
no over-charge protection.
It depends entirely on the size of the battery and the current it is
trickle charged at.
|
Sorry Dave, that matters but it's not the cause of these problems. The
problems occur when any battery is overcharged as a result of too much time,
current, or both. As long as the trickle rate is more than the discharge
rate of the battery you will eventually reach a state of overcharge if the
charger does not have sensing/cycling circuitry. The time required to blow
up or ruin a battery can run from minutes to months. |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30kfv4F31khsuU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | tech27 wrote:
I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit
that cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle
charging can cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there
is no over-charge protection.
The very definition of trickle charging is current low enough to avoid
that.
You're only supplying enough to offset self-discharge and whatever other
low
drain is present. With a lead acid battery, as long as the voltage is
precisely
controlled, they'll draw exactly what they need. A cycling charger is
unnecessary.
It's actually quite a bit cheaper to make a cycling charger than a good
voltage
regulator, which is why there are so many cycling ones on the market.
Matt O.
|
I don't mean to be rude Matt, but it sounds like while you seem quite
intelligent, you are basing your opinions on your perceptions, not fact. The
definition of a trickle charger is a charger that delivers a steady stream
at very low current relative to the battery load capacity. The is nothing
about "trickle" that implies sensing or cycling on and off. Witness that you
can buy a very very cheap "dumb" charger, or pay substantially more for an
"intelligent" charger with the sensing and control circuitry. |
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tech27
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:or7aq0d6cls1156uldp8qdp8l0vkagu2kv@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:33 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair
weather)
would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do) run that
risk.
Exhaust and internals. Anything that air can get to can potentially get
moisture and corrosives as the water reacts to other compounds.
Then you'd better not drive your car. Ever. After all, "moisture"
will be the inevitable result of that activity.
|
It is. But driving it every day or so takes care of this problem. The
problem is taking it out and driving it for an hour a month. This creates
the corrosives and allows them to do their nasty work for an uniterrupted 30
days.
| Quote: | I'm in the camp of taking if for a good drive a couple times in the
Winter.
|
Your choice, of course. |
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tech27
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Dan Drake" <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote in message
news:babaq0pr5l3p4jvqaubfal786pkmi7g4p2@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:53:37 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:33 -0500, "tech27"
tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair
weather)
would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do) run that
risk.
Exhaust and internals. Anything that air can get to can potentially get
moisture and corrosives as the water reacts to other compounds.
Then you'd better not drive your car. Ever. After all, "moisture"
will be the inevitable result of that activity.
I'm in the camp of taking if for a good drive a couple times in the
Winter.
Drive the frickin' thing year round in all weathers, fer chrissakes.
I do that with mine - they're just cars, when all is said and done.
|
It's not that I wouldn't like to, but where I am in Canada it's not much fun
trying to feather the throttle on a M5 at every light and stop sign. Add to
that the insurance for this beast on top of my other cars it just doesn't
make sense to me, even if for the days when it's really nice out. Plus, as
soon as the weather turns nice it's like getting a new car again! (-; |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:03 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30l5v3F318tecU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer
lasting than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in
all probability.
Not until they find a way to make lead less heavy!
Matt O.
I've been working on that for YEARS and failed miserably. All I could do was |
come up with a process to convert lead to gold, but since the atomic weights
of lead and gold are pretty close I just got discouraged and destroyed all
my research notes. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:14 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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tech27 wrote:
| Quote: | "Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30l5v3F318tecU1@uni-berlin.de...
Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer
lasting than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in
all probability.
Not until they find a way to make lead less heavy!
I've been working on that for YEARS and failed miserably. All I could
do was come up with a process to convert lead to gold, but since the
atomic weights of lead and gold are pretty close I just got
discouraged and destroyed all my research notes.
|
How about a gold battery? Now *that* would be a marketing angle!
Matt O. |
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Dan Drake
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:59:23 -0500, "tech27"
<tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Drive the frickin' thing year round in all weathers, fer chrissakes.
I do that with mine - they're just cars, when all is said and done.
It's not that I wouldn't like to, but where I am in Canada it's not much fun
trying to feather the throttle on a M5 at every light and stop sign.
|
Assuming that you mean "go gently," then you've got to "feather the
throttle," whatever you're driving in bad conditions. The M5 is no
worse than any other car in that respect. Stability control actually
makes it *better* in some respects.
| Quote: | Add to
that the insurance for this beast on top of my other cars it just doesn't
make sense to me, even if for the days when it's really nice out. Plus, as
soon as the weather turns nice it's like getting a new car again! (-;
|
This may be the *real* reason, methinks. So what's the annual cost of
insuring it?
--
Dan Drake |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30lbljF337342U1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | How about a gold battery? Now *that* would be a marketing angle!
Matt O.
Nah, gold is old hat. Needs to be titanium or kevlar now, or maybe a ceramic |
job. |
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