| Author |
Message |
Fred W
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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tech27 wrote:
| Quote: | "Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30ibiqF2uamncU1@uni-berlin.de...
Trickle chargers are great if you want to leave the battery in the car, so
you
don't have to mess with reprogramming radios, etc. Or you could just go
for a
half hour drive whenever the weather and roads are nice enough. You
should do
this anyway to exercise your AC system.
Matt O.
I know about running the AC system, but that's mainly to keep the seals
supple. If the car is stored inside it's not necessary. The most important
thing I wanted to relate to you is that it is NOT recommended to drive a
stored car as you suggested. Even assuming that you want to keep full
insurance coverage on it )-; , the big problem is that driving it then
letting it sit for an extended period causes moisture to build up after the
car is stopped. This is not good and is worse than just parking it, letting
everything dry, and leaving it alone. So I've been told on good authority.
|
This does not make much sense to me. If this were the case, then
driving it daily would be as bad or worse!
Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair
weather) would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do)
run that risk.
BTW - after many years of owning roadsters that do not get driven
regularly in the New England winters, I have found that the savings of
taking the car off the insurance for 3-4 months is not worth the hassle
of dropping and adding it to the policy. Granted, that may vary with
your location. Besides that, the car would not be covered in the event
of a catastrophe (fire, etc.) by my home-owners policy. And then there
are always thoise few really nice days where the sun is shining an the
temps sky-rocket to above freezing and the roiads are dry enough...
Those are actually some of the most satisfying driving days ever, after
being cooped up so long...
-Fred W
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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In article <4117912d.0411241057.14c74996@posting.google.com>,
maxima1 <maxima1@ameritech.net> wrote:
| Quote: | It is NOT like a wall wart in operation;
|
A wall wart can be anything you like - AC or DC output, regulated or not.
A power supply or a battery charger. It's just a generic term for a thing
that plugs in direct to a socket.
--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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In article <QX5pd.27329$NC6.5037@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
tech27 <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit
that cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle
charging can cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there is
no over-charge protection.
|
It depends entirely on the size of the battery and the current it is
trickle charged at.
--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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In article <30kfv4F31khsuU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Matt O'Toole <matt@deltanet.com> wrote:
| Quote: | It's actually quite a bit cheaper to make a cycling charger than a good
voltage regulator, which is why there are so many cycling ones on the
market.
|
You'd think by all the hype on certain websites there were some new
inventions in lead acid batteries and chargers. There's not - the
technology is as old as the hills. Merely some fine tuning - which they
try and 'charge' ;-) dearly for.
Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer lasting
than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in all probability.
--
*I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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maxima1
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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| Quote: |
For $90, I'd want a new battery...
|
Keep in mind that this is $90 CANADIAN. What is that, something like
$20?? :)
But really, a modern smart charger is worth the investment. A CTEK
3300 retails for $69.99 and is available through any Interstate
battery dealer. It will keep all batteries at peak performance
including Optima (Red or Yellow tops). It is NOT like a wall wart in
operation; it ramps and cycles the charge current to actually
refurbish the cell surfaces. And it is idiot-proof in use.
A well-designed charger like that will make a standard battery last 10
years in the above mentioned storage scenario. BTW, CTEK makes the
Mercedes and Porsche chargers.
Matthew
00 528i Sport |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:59 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | And I'd baulk at paying 90 dollars for a trickle charger - it should
cost no more than any other wall wart type PS, perhaps 20 or so.
For 90 dollars you should be able to get a general purpose charger
that will also be ok for trickle charging.
|
Actually, a 13.2V regulated power supply makes a perfect trickle charger. These
are sold in electronics hobbyist stores and catalogs, for tinkering with 12V
gadgets, marine electronics, avionics, etc. You should be able to get a 2A unit
for under $30, and lower current ones even cheaper.
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:00 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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maxima1 wrote:
| Quote: | For $90, I'd want a new battery...
Keep in mind that this is $90 CANADIAN. What is that, something like
$20?? :)
|
Not anymore!
Matt O. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:07 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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tech27 wrote:
| Quote: | As was told to me, the problem is with driving/running the car, then
leaving it sit for an extended period, then repeating.
|
There's something to be said for that, depending on the conditions. You
mentioned putting it away clean and dry and leaving it that way. This is
probably a good idea if it's going to get wet, dirty, or especially salty if you
take it out again during the winter. But if it's damp where the car is stored,
it may make sense to warm it up and dry it all out occasionally.
Storing a car isn't an issue like it used to be though. I wouldn't worry about
it too much.
Matt O. |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:09 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Somebody" <somebody@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in message
news:NN2pd.84994$vO1.492621@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
| Quote: |
"tech27" <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote in message
news:2p2pd.27324$NC6.13843@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
True. On those days maybe I'll just back the car out into the sun and sit
in
it. (-;
I just had a visual of you doing that in a subdivision somewhere and your
neighbours looking out and shaking their heads...
:-)
-Russ.
|
Nah, they're just happy I got rid of the back seat I kept on my front porch
with the case of beer and "Afro-American" buttler ashtray. They also seemed
pleased when I sold my 1973 Chevy Caprice Classic daily driver and the other
Caprice on cinder blocks I kept for parts. Just have to plant some more
grass under where it was on the front lawn.
> |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:11 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30k7lsF31qfsqU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | maxima1 wrote:
For $90, I'd want a new battery...
Keep in mind that this is $90 CANADIAN. What is that, something like
$20?? :)
Not anymore!
Matt O.
Live mid-market rates as of 2004.11.24 20:10:58 GMT.
90.00 CAD |
Canada Dollars = 76.1866 USD
United States Dollars
1 CAD = 0.846517 USD 1 USD = 1.18131 CAD |
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tech27
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:13 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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"Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:30k7keF31fqp2U1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
And I'd baulk at paying 90 dollars for a trickle charger - it should
cost no more than any other wall wart type PS, perhaps 20 or so.
For 90 dollars you should be able to get a general purpose charger
that will also be ok for trickle charging.
Actually, a 13.2V regulated power supply makes a perfect trickle charger.
These
are sold in electronics hobbyist stores and catalogs, for tinkering with
12V
gadgets, marine electronics, avionics, etc. You should be able to get a
2A unit
for under $30, and lower current ones even cheaper.
Matt O.
|
I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit that
cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle charging can
cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there is no over-charge
protection. |
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Matt O'Toole
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:30 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
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Fred W wrote:
| Quote: | Where exactly is this "moisture build-up" supposed to occur? The only
place that I can see (assuming that you are only driving in fair
weather) would be in the exhaust system. Personally, I would (and do)
run that risk.
|
Yes. Old Volvos were known for this, with convoluted exhaust systems that never
dried out on short trips. Brake systems can suffer too, AC/heat systems can get
stinky, and if it's really damp you can get mildew in your interior. Of course
this depends on where you live -- Las Vegas wouldn't be a problem, but Olympia,
WA might. Then there are places where the roads are heavily salted and never
quite dry.
That said, cars are far more resistant to all these things than they were even
15 years ago, and the "common wisdom" about these issues predates that by
decades. So like I said, don't worry too much. Use your common sense, and do
whatever makes you feel better.
The real enemies of a car are mileage and UV, so if you park it indoors you're
preventing most deterioration already. Anything further is really splitting
hairs.
| Quote: | BTW - after many years of owning roadsters that do not get driven
regularly in the New England winters, I have found that the savings of
taking the car off the insurance for 3-4 months is not worth the
hassle of dropping and adding it to the policy. Granted, that may
vary with your location.
|
And your insurance company. With mine (USAA) it would be no problem, and I
could save a lot of money this way. It seems they'd write a whole new policy
for you every day if you wish. They're the most no-hassle insurance company
ever, and one of the cheapest too.
| Quote: | Besides that, the car would not be covered
in the event of a catastrophe (fire, etc.) by my home-owners policy.
|
Worth thinking about, depending on your own personal catastrophe risk, and the
value of your vehicle(s).
| Quote: | And then there are always thoise few really nice days where the sun
is shining an the temps sky-rocket to above freezing and the roiads
are dry enough... Those are actually some of the most satisfying
driving days ever, after being cooped up so long...
|
Absolutely. My brother lives in New England, and drives his Miata with the top
down all winter. Great cure for cabin fever.
Matt O. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
|
|
In article <3lbaq0178c9decs1nds2sjk6phjmrfrou2@4ax.com>,
Dan Drake <ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Lead acid batteries are little smaller, lighter, cheaper or longer lasting
than they were 50 years ago. And never will be, either, in all probability.
But they're pretty good/nothing better for certain applications. I use
a couple of small sealed lead/acid batteries for my photography
flashguns. They're old but I love 'em. They seem to be infinitely
rechargeable, and they're as reliable and predictable as all hell.
|
Absolutely. I use all sorts of rechargeable (and disposable) batteries in
my job, and if space and weight permits, a lead acid is still the best
value overall.
--
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:07 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
|
|
In article <5Sapd.27356$NC6.10766@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net>,
tech27 <tech27@mail.anonymizer.com> wrote:
| Quote: | It depends entirely on the size of the battery and the current it is
trickle charged at.
Sorry Dave, that matters but it's not the cause of these problems. The
problems occur when any battery is overcharged as a result of too much
time, current, or both.
|
Yes. However, a charger can't magic up current from nowhere. If its peak
output is low, then the output as the battery charges up will to some
extent self regulate.
| Quote: | As long as the trickle rate is more than the
discharge rate of the battery you will eventually reach a state of
overcharge if the charger does not have sensing/cycling circuitry. The
time required to blow up or ruin a battery can run from minutes to
months.
|
But that's precisely why you use a voltage regulated charger. When the
appropriate voltage has been reached, no current will flow.
FWIW, most domestic burglar alarms use a SLA battery as back up. Left on
permanent float. And the entire device costs somewhat less than many of
those posh car battery conditioners...
--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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nick smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:15 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Charging |
|
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| Quote: |
I don't think that's a good idea Matt. You really need to have a unit that
cycles power and has auto shut off/ start. Constant trickle charging can
cause the battery to overheat and even explode if there is no over-charge
protection.
|
EH ?
So what does the car alternator do when driving across the states for hours /
days on end
or taxis / couriers who run maybe 12 + hours a day - blow up the battery ?
When the alternator has replenished the start current it is providing the
running current for
all the vehicle's electrical systems and maintaining the battery at about 13.8
volts - this
will cause a small current to be continuously fed into the battery - the
battery is then
under "float charge" as any battery manufacturers handbook will say. The max
permitted
float charge will be specified or more commonly the max permitted continuous
applied
voltage to maintain full charge - it is no coincidence that the alternator
manufacturers are
aware of this and have set their alternators to around 13.8 volts. So a
regulated power
supply set at the same voltage is OK - You may be getting confused with NiCad
cells which
after prolonged periods of discharge may need cycling to restore max capacity.
Hope that helps
Nick |
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