| Author |
Message |
Tom Adkins
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Opinions on business venture |
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I am looking for an opinion on a business venture,
I was a Ford tech for many years and have about 25 years total as an automotive
tech. I always liked doing electrical and AC work. About 5years ago I retrained in
IT. In 2003 I was laid off from my IT job and am as yet unemployed.
I have filled the gaps by doing electrical and AC work on collector cars, including
complete rewires and some custom work on streetrods, along with Vintage Air installations.
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C work on
classic\collector cars.
I know there is always someone in this area that wants work done, but they want it
for $20 per job. When I quote $25/HR they tend to choke. A few of the "money men" in
this area will go for it. I rehabbed a complete AC system in a 69 Coronet RT for $500
and parts ($365 customer supplied). The guy felt he was ripped off because all I had
to do was replace some parts and charge the system. I have found that electrical work
is better, but I can only squeeze out about $18\hr for uncobbling a harness on "Say" a
71 Roadrunner".
I know the average car owner cant' do this work, and I don't want to rape him. Any
Ideas?
Tom Adkins (Automotive Specialty Systems)
South Amherst, Ohio 44001
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351CJ
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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"Tom Adkins" <newton5@remove.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:TBzod.73530$V41.36064@attbi_s52...
| Quote: | I am looking for an opinion on a business venture,
I was a Ford tech for many years and have about 25 years total as an
automotive
tech. I always liked doing electrical and AC work. About 5years ago I
retrained in
IT. In 2003 I was laid off from my IT job and am as yet unemployed.
I have filled the gaps by doing electrical and AC work on collector
cars, including
complete rewires and some custom work on streetrods, along with Vintage
Air installations.
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C
work on
classic\collector cars.
I know there is always someone in this area that wants work done, but
they want it
for $20 per job. When I quote $25/HR they tend to choke. A few of the
"money men" in
this area will go for it. I rehabbed a complete AC system in a 69 Coronet
RT for $500
and parts ($365 customer supplied). The guy felt he was ripped off because
all I had
to do was replace some parts and charge the system. I have found that
electrical work
is better, but I can only squeeze out about $18\hr for uncobbling a
harness on "Say" a
71 Roadrunner".
I know the average car owner cant' do this work, and I don't want to
rape him. Any
Ideas?
Tom Adkins (Automotive Specialty Systems)
South Amherst, Ohio 44001
|
Tom,
If you are realistic in your hourly rate, don't worry about what all the
people who want it for free have to say about it. That is how much your
time costs.
You determine what your time is worth and that is what you charge, hopefully
the market will bare it. You could always ask the people who balk if that
is the response they would give an attorney when he quotes $175 per hour for
his time. I bet they just pay the price at the gas pump, without trying to
barter about that price...
Good Luck |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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You have to charge what your worth or you'll be giving your time away.
Self employment is great, and sucks at the same time. Dealing with the
public can be very nerve wracking. Proceed with caution.
GOD BLESS THE USA
Member of IPCO- International Pest Control Operators
Public message board- http://www.ipconetwork.org/fmb/cboard.mv
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Ninebal310
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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| Quote: | From: Tom Adkins
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C work on
classic\collector cars.
|
If you are competent, yes. If you're a Hack, no.
The electrical system in todays cars are much more sophisticated than in
years past. So, make sure you have allthe training and tech info at hand.
There is plenty of business doing custom electrical work. For example: ALL
police/fire need custom installations and repair/maintenance. Check with you
local police/fire depts. Usually the bigger cities have their own mechanic, but
the small ones have to farm it out.
My local police hired me to install lights, radio, and etc. on their new
cars. I did this for a while and was very busy. As the community grew, so did
the work. I am retired and didn't want to work 8 hours every day, so I told
them to find someone else.
So, don't limit yourself to just classic cars. Limit yourself to "Custom
Electrical Installation and Repair.
Hank |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Good advice and do it for around $45, not $25, WBMA
mike hunt
Ninebal310 wrote:
| Quote: |
don't limit yourself to just classic cars. Limit
yourself to "Custom Electrical Installation and Repair.
Hank |
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Eric Toline
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Try to set up your business in an ongoing auto repair shop, it's more
professional that way. Work out the details with the owner. Put up signs
and prices for the service you offer.
Spend a little money advertising in the right places. Invest in yourself
and you'll do well.
Eric |
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Backyard Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Eric Toline opined in news:2159-41A370F1-180@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net:
| Quote: | Try to set up your business in an ongoing auto repair shop, it's more
professional that way. Work out the details with the owner. Put up signs
and prices for the service you offer.
Spend a little money advertising in the right places. Invest in yourself
and you'll do well.
Eric
|
And as ninebal suggests, find a "core customer" that wont occupy ALL your
time but allow the variety of jobs that we renaisance type geezers need. |
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dbird
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Tom Adkins wrote:
| Quote: |
I am looking for an opinion on a business venture,
I was a Ford tech for many years and have about 25 years total as an automotive
tech. I always liked doing electrical and AC work. About 5years ago I retrained in
IT. In 2003 I was laid off from my IT job and am as yet unemployed.
I have filled the gaps by doing electrical and AC work on collector cars, including
complete rewires and some custom work on streetrods, along with Vintage Air installations.
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C work on
classic\collector cars.
I know there is always someone in this area that wants work done, but they want it
for $20 per job. When I quote $25/HR they tend to choke. A few of the "money men" in
this area will go for it. I rehabbed a complete AC system in a 69 Coronet RT for $500
and parts ($365 customer supplied). The guy felt he was ripped off because all I had
to do was replace some parts and charge the system. I have found that electrical work
is better, but I can only squeeze out about $18\hr for uncobbling a harness on "Say" a
71 Roadrunner".
I know the average car owner cant' do this work, and I don't want to rape him. Any
Ideas?
Tom Adkins (Automotive Specialty Systems)
South Amherst, Ohio 44001
the idea is to move to california where the money is located(more |
customers who can afford to pay for the service)... you cant make any
money with a limited supply of customers who cant or wont pay for the
service..... |
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Tom Adkins
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:50 am Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Bob wrote:
| Quote: | You have to charge what your worth or you'll be giving your time away.
Self employment is great, and sucks at the same time. Dealing with the
public can be very nerve wracking. Proceed with caution.
GOD BLESS THE USA
Member of IPCO- International Pest Control Operators
Public message board- http://www.ipconetwork.org/fmb/cboard.mv
A friend of mine likes to say " Self emplotment is GREAT because I can work half-days. |
Any 12 hours per day I want to".
Tom |
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Tom Adkins
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:25 am Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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Ninebal310 wrote:
| Quote: | From: Tom Adkins
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C work on
classic\collector cars.
If you are competent, yes. If you're a Hack, no.
The electrical system in todays cars are much more sophisticated than in
years past. So, make sure you have allthe training and tech info at hand.
There is plenty of business doing custom electrical work. For example: ALL
police/fire need custom installations and repair/maintenance. Check with you
local police/fire depts. Usually the bigger cities have their own mechanic, but
the small ones have to farm it out.
My local police hired me to install lights, radio, and etc. on their new
cars. I did this for a while and was very busy. As the community grew, so did
the work. I am retired and didn't want to work 8 hours every day, so I told
them to find someone else.
So, don't limit yourself to just classic cars. Limit yourself to "Custom
Electrical Installation and Repair.
Hank
|
Thanks Hank, and all who replied. I am quite familiar with the complexity of modern
vehicle systems,I am by no means a hack. I take pride in the fact that I do quality
work both mechanically and visually. I never thought about Municipal vehicles, thanks.
I tend to do collector vehicles because , well those are the jobs I run across through
word of mouth and those folks appreciate good work. I work with a couple of body shops
that do restorations and do well but I may only see 1 resto per month. I've also
hooked up with a motorcycle shop uncobbling add on accessory wiring and such. I love
it when people use Scotch Locks and crimp connectors to wire their add on lights with
speaker wire.
So, I guess it's time to fish or cut bait. I need to settle on a labor rate and look
for different areas to mine for work (Muny vehicles, Limos, RVs possibly). Thanks for
all of the input, it gave my brain the jump start that it needed.
Tom |
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Tom Adkins
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:34 am Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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MajorDomo@mailcity.con wrote:
| Quote: | Good advice and do it for around $45, not $25, WBMA
mike hunt
Ninebal310 wrote:
don't limit yourself to just classic cars. Limit
yourself to "Custom Electrical Installation and Repair.
Hank
Hi Mike, |
I usually charge $45\hr. The point is that I've had quite a few potential customers
choke at even $25\hr. I don't figure $45 it too high for quality work backed by 25
years of experience. I just need to find the customers who are willing to pay. I've
gotten some good input from you folks.
Tom |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:28 am Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:25:17 GMT, Tom Adkins
<newton5@remove.comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Ninebal310 wrote:
From: Tom Adkins
I guess what I'm asking is, Is there a market for electrical and A\C work on
classic\collector cars.
If you are competent, yes. If you're a Hack, no.
The electrical system in todays cars are much more sophisticated than in
years past. So, make sure you have allthe training and tech info at hand.
There is plenty of business doing custom electrical work. For example: ALL
police/fire need custom installations and repair/maintenance. Check with you
local police/fire depts. Usually the bigger cities have their own mechanic, but
the small ones have to farm it out.
My local police hired me to install lights, radio, and etc. on their new
cars. I did this for a while and was very busy. As the community grew, so did
the work. I am retired and didn't want to work 8 hours every day, so I told
them to find someone else.
So, don't limit yourself to just classic cars. Limit yourself to "Custom
Electrical Installation and Repair.
Hank
Thanks Hank, and all who replied. I am quite familiar with the complexity of modern
vehicle systems,I am by no means a hack. I take pride in the fact that I do quality
work both mechanically and visually. I never thought about Municipal vehicles, thanks.
I tend to do collector vehicles because , well those are the jobs I run across through
word of mouth and those folks appreciate good work. I work with a couple of body shops
that do restorations and do well but I may only see 1 resto per month. I've also
hooked up with a motorcycle shop uncobbling add on accessory wiring and such. I love
it when people use Scotch Locks and crimp connectors to wire their add on lights with
speaker wire.
So, I guess it's time to fish or cut bait. I need to settle on a labor rate and look
for different areas to mine for work (Muny vehicles, Limos, RVs possibly). Thanks for
all of the input, it gave my brain the jump start that it needed.
Tom
You want to really be careful on Limos - on the whole they are hack |
jobs from the very beginning - and conversion companies and their
suppliers go broke will allarming regularity - making it difficult to
get replacement parts - particularly electricals. In many cases they
are not engineered in the first place - they are thrown together with
whatever the company can get cheap that does the job long enough to
get off warranty.
Electro-luminescent panels are being used for "opera lights" as well
as interior panel lights, with inverters less than half the capacity
they should have. Then when they go bad you have to source a
replacement - and the company that made the limo is out of business -
and the company that made the parts was out of buisiness when the
(surplus) parts were purchaced in bulk 3 years before the conversion
was done. Then the only available replacement (that IS the right
capacity)is physically too large to fit in the spot the dead one came
out of.
Just one example.
Or custom switch panels, using switches that may have been readily
available in HongKong 2 years before the conversion was done, but were
never imported or distributed in North America. The switches are
soldered to a poor quality printed circuit panel, that when the
conversion company was still in business cost something like $500. Now
that they are gone, you are stuck sourcing a replacement switch,
repairing the undersized traces on the circuit board, then sourcing
replacement bulbs for the illumination system - which again are
non-standard and the last north american
distributor/manufacturer/supplier has not had them in stock for 5
years (the limo is 3 or 4 years old) Nothing currently available fits
so you have to modify the acrylic panel to provide clearance for the
slightly larger bulbs available - and replace them ALL because the new
ones are brighter or dimmer than the originals.
Who pays your time tracking down and sourcing the parts? And doing the
finicky replacement? And you are going to go through that for $18 per
hour???
And even at that rate the cheap beggar that owns the limo is going to
complain because of the number of hours required "to change a lousy
light bulb"
I've done the board repairs and sourced the parts for a repair shop
that services a fair sized limo fleet - and believe me, it's no fun.
I charge $50 per hour for the repair work I do, and the shop charges a
minimum of $65 getting the parts out and putting them back in.
The limo owner has finally resolved himself to the fact that if he's
going to make money running his limos, someone has to make money
keeping them in shape.
"Get a brush cut before you start on the job or you'll be bald (or
patchy) before it's over." |
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Tom Adkins
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca wrote:
| Quote: |
You want to really be careful on Limos - on the whole they are hack
jobs from the very beginning - and conversion companies and their
suppliers go broke will allarming regularity - making it difficult to
get replacement parts - particularly electricals. In many cases they
are not engineered in the first place - they are thrown together with
whatever the company can get cheap that does the job long enough to
get off warranty.
|
Yep,
Been there and done that, no fun. I've worked on many upfit vehicles from campers
and conversion vans, to limos and shuttle buses. When I was with Hertz, we got a
fleet of 8 ~18 passenger shuttle buses to replace our aging fleet of E-350 based
people movers. They were gorgeous and drove great. They were sold by Stewart and
Stevenson under the name Marcopolo. They were built on an Oshkosh (by way of John
Deere) chassis.The chassis' had been stored for 4 years after JD bought out that
division of Oshkosh. They were fitted with a Cummins diesel, Allison Trans and Dana 70
axle. The body and Hendrickson Air Ride were installed in Texas by S and S. They were
then shipped to Brazil for electrical, AC, and interior upfit. Hertz bought about 40
total of these _astard vehicles. In our 8, 3 arrived with all of the instrument panel
gauges, etc. dead. They were basically wired backward. No two of them were wired the
same.The rear backup cameras failed within 6 months and replacements were unavailable.
The cheap ballasts in the fluorescent lights would last about 9 months (unavailable)
and the replacements had to be remotely mounted. Oh, the bulbs were also proprietary.
Yhe wiring to the body lightng was routed through ungrommeted steel or aluminum panels
and was a constant source of shorts. The external lamps housings were unobtainium
after 2 years and replacement bulbs had to be ordered from Phillips in England. The
DANA 70 rears failed within 6 months of each other and were replaced with DANA 80
axles. The rear AC evaporators were mounted to the ceiling with weak aluminum brackets
screwed into the fiberglass. They would fall unexpectedly. The worst was the large H
shaped rear suspension swing arm. Imagine 1 end of the "H" attached to the frame on
pivots. with air springs between the rear legs of the "H" and the frame. The axle
housings were welded across the "H". They would break on one foreward leg and the axle
would twist breaking the other leg. All 8 were replaced twice, lasting about 2 years.
When replacements became unavailable we had to have them fabricated locally at a cost
of about $6K each. I won't go on about the Isringhausen air seats, oddball AC lines,
exploding air compressors, rotted custom fuel tanks,etc. You get the idea. The rear
tail light housings were easy to get though, they were 1985 Ford Mustang units swapped
left to right (upside down).
There may some well built upfit vehicles out there but I've never seen one.
| Quote: |
"Get a brush cut before you start on the job or you'll be bald (or
patchy) before it's over."
|
I'm already bald, see above.
Tom |
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Bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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I wish you all the luck in the world.
GOD BLESS THE USA
Member of IPCO- International Pest Control Operators
Public message board- http://www.ipconetwork.org/fmb/cboard.mv |
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Ninebal310
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Opinions on business venture |
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| Quote: | From: Tom Adkins
Hi Mike,
I usually charge $45\hr. The point is that I've had quite a few potential
customers
choke at even $25\hr. I don't figure $45 it too high for quality work backed
by 25
years of experience. I just need to find the customers who are willing to
pay. I've
gotten some good input from you folks.
Tom
|
I was only charging $25 and hour about 6 years ago working out of my garage.
So, $45 seems about right if you don't have much over head. If you get your own
shop, take it to $65. Hell, lawyers charge $220+ an hour, tell me that isn't a
rip off.
Hank |
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