| Author |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:58 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <316efiF36v0efU1@individual.net>,
Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | My Land Cruiser has one. It has a central tube so it does not spill
more than a thimble full, if any, into the built in drip tray which
is bolted to the side of the block. Neat and tidy. Which proves that
nothing is impossible.
No - although I suspect the removable element type is rather more
space efficient like for like.
Space efficient? I don't see it. One of the advantages in some BMW
applications is that is can be remote mounted, even mounted away from
the engine on the chassis or front bulkhead, when engine installation
is tight. In other words is provides the designers with installation
versatility which simplifies their job somewhat.
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That's what I meant. A removable element type needs a smaller mounting
than a throw away one. At least I guess so.
--
*When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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adder
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4d166cae29dave@davenoise.co.uk>...
| Quote: | I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
I wrap some kitchen paper round mine - secured with a rubber band - and
manage to change it with no mess.
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I seem to remember MGBs have an upside down all-in-one filter but I
guess the spillage just adds to the inbuilt rustproofing system. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <20041201132354.06709.00001238@mb-m15.aol.com>,
Dick Schneiders <dickschnei@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I seem to remember MGBs have an upside down all-in-one filter but I
guess the spillage just adds to the inbuilt rustproofing system.
Hmmm, I don't recall that on the 1973 MGB that I had. However, now that I
think about it, I'm not certain that it even had an oil filter.
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Yup. If you looked carefully, it was actually a modification from the
original by pass design from the same basic B Series engine of the '50s.
Hence the adaptor block and pipe - to change it to full flow - between the
filter casing and block, which could move if you weren't careful and leak
- even more. ;-)
| Quote: | Or any oil, either! :-)
In the several years that I owned that car, I really didn't do a lot to
it. However, I probably did change the oil once or twice - just can't
remember doing it.
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Depending on age, it might have had a recommended 3000 mile change.
--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d166cae29dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <ef9rd.304$aX5.295@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand ahe
chance of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not
possible to change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess
not having tried it, yet.
I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
|
My Land Cruiser has one. It has a central tube so it does not spill more
than a thimble full, if any, into the built in drip tray which is bolted to
the side
of the block. Neat and tidy. Which proves that nothing is impossible.
Huw |
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d169125d5dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <316cadF37kmp0U1@individual.net>,
Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of
the engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would
make a mess when removing.
My Land Cruiser has one. It has a central tube so it does not spill more
than a thimble full, if any, into the built in drip tray which is bolted
to the side of the block. Neat and tidy. Which proves that nothing is
impossible.
No - although I suspect the removable element type is rather more space
efficient like for like.
|
Space efficient? I don't see it. One of the advantages in some BMW
applications is that is can be remote mounted, even mounted away from the
engine on the chassis or front bulkhead, when engine installation is tight.
In other words is provides the designers with installation versatility which
simplifies their job somewhat.
Huw |
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Dick Schneiders
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:23 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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| Quote: | I seem to remember MGBs have an upside down all-in-one filter but I
guess the spillage just adds to the inbuilt rustproofing system.
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Hmmm, I don't recall that on the 1973 MGB that I had. However, now that I
think about it, I'm not certain that it even had an oil filter.
Or any oil, either! :-)
In the several years that I owned that car, I really didn't do a lot to it.
However, I probably did change the oil once or twice - just can't remember
doing it.
Dick Schneiders (A lot more particular about this stuff on my bimmers) |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <PZOdndGcsfXYrzPcRVn-tA@adelphia.com>,
Fred W <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote:
| Quote: | While I would agree that this can be true of some "features" of our
beloved bimmers (iDrive comes to mind), I happen to feel that this is
one area that the engineering is spot on. To me, this is a simple yet
elegant design that exemplifies German design when things go right.
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Yes. And I wonder if those suck the oil out through the dipstick things
work well these days - not having to crawl under the car and drain into a
receptacle of some sort would be a real boon.
--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:40 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d16995680dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <316efiF36v0efU1@individual.net>,
Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
My Land Cruiser has one. It has a central tube so it does not spill
more than a thimble full, if any, into the built in drip tray which
is bolted to the side of the block. Neat and tidy. Which proves that
nothing is impossible.
No - although I suspect the removable element type is rather more
space efficient like for like.
Space efficient? I don't see it. One of the advantages in some BMW
applications is that is can be remote mounted, even mounted away from
the engine on the chassis or front bulkhead, when engine installation
is tight. In other words is provides the designers with installation
versatility which simplifies their job somewhat.
That's what I meant. A removable element type needs a smaller mounting
than a throw away one. At least I guess so.
|
In my experience they are not smaller but the modern type are more flexible
in their mounting position as long as you can put up with the several pipes
that need to connect with the engine if it is remote mounted as is the case
with V8 BMW installations.
Huw |
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Fred W
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:43 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <lbWdnYs0e-A-JTDcRVn-hg@comcast.com>,
John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
Actually not, check out most Ferrari filters (spin on, but with an
anti-drainback valve).
Ahh - don't move in such exalted circles. ;-) But does this totally stop
drips?
snip
The location is far more accessible than some spin-on locations (auto
engineers seem to rarely place items that require regular service where
they can be serviced regularly and easily).
Yes - my other car has a spin off one which looks quite accessible on the
front of the engine, but proves impossible to get both hands on it to
unscrew, so usually involves a strap wrench which has little clearance to
work. At one time you could get these filters with a nut welded on the
bottom for removal purposes, but not seen one for a while.
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Probably not. Same arangement on the Mazda RX-7 rotary engines.
Inverted spin on filter insures you keep the outside of the engine well
lubed. ;-)
-Fred W |
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Fred W
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:06 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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GRL wrote:
| Quote: | Well, the problem with that reasoning is that even the best over-the-counter
spin-on filters cost $5, with many being in the $3 to $5 range. The lowest
I've seen for BMW 3-series replacement elements is over $6 for a no-name
model and up to $12 for big-name models. The owner is NOT participating in
any savings that come from not selling him a case with the filter.
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I'm not sure where you live, but the spin on filters here in the
Northeast run from about $3 (shitty fram filters that I would not mount
on my lawnmower) to a high of about $14 (Mobil1 or K&N filters).
I routinely buy my BMW 3-series Mann filters for $5. I do not buy Bosch
filters because they are overpriced and no better than the Mann or Mahle
brands, but ebven those are only $7 at the online parts place that I use
<www.sasponline.com>
It's not so much the savings to the end user that I was pointing out
though, it's that whatever the cost to manufcature these things is, a
percentage would be tied up in making those cans which do not add any
functionality to the filter as a filter.
| Quote: |
As to what could be easier than a case/element design like BMW uses, the
answer is, obviously, an all-in-one design as used by every US and Japanese
model I know of.
The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand a chance
of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not possible to
change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess not having tried
it, yet.
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Since you have not, then you obviously cannot comment on it. Believe me
when I tell you it is neater to replace the 2-piece design. Once you
crack open the cannister the oil all drains down into the crankcase.
Once the filter has drained, you stick your hand inside an inverted
plastic bag, pluck out the filter and bag it, no muss, no fuss.
Every spin on filter I have ever removed spills as least a little oil
around, hence the need for a drain pan when removing, and since you are
usually removing it from underneath the car, the oil invariably runs
half way down the remover's arm.
| Quote: |
As for more earth-friendly...well maybe. If you return your filter to an oil
change facility (or if you have them do the change), the filter is recycled
and the metal re-used. If you just toss it in the trash and it goes to a
dump, the metal of the casing is not really the problem, the problem, if
there is one, is the oil remaining in the filter element. Not much
difference there.
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Except for the difference to the environment of having to manufacture a
bunch of throw-away steel cases.
| Quote: |
I personally think the 2-part design is just another example of German
over-engineering/complication to no really good end.
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While I would agree that this can be true of some "features" of our
beloved bimmers (iDrive comes to mind), I happen to feel that this is
one area that the engineering is spot on. To me, this is a simple yet
elegant design that exemplifies German design when things go right.
-Fred W |
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Fred W
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <PZOdndGcsfXYrzPcRVn-tA@adelphia.com>,
Fred W <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote:
While I would agree that this can be true of some "features" of our
beloved bimmers (iDrive comes to mind), I happen to feel that this is
one area that the engineering is spot on. To me, this is a simple yet
elegant design that exemplifies German design when things go right.
Yes. And I wonder if those suck the oil out through the dipstick things
work well these days - not having to crawl under the car and drain into a
receptacle of some sort would be a real boon.
|
I agree it would be nice, but everything I have read says to avoid using
them (at least as the *only* method to accomplish oil changes) since
they leave behind a quantity of the oil below the bottom of the dipstick
guide tube, whcih also happens to be the nastiest stuff with the most
sediment, etc.
I suppose if you alternated between the right way (drain from the
bottom) and using one of these it would be OK. So for all those with
new cars (that ain't me) that get all the scheduled maintenance at the
stealership (for free in the US) but feel the desire to do an extra
change in between it would make a lot of sense.
-Fred W |
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kenyon
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