| Author |
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Ted Johnson
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
Thanks in advance.
-Ted
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <cnu33p$2va@estaff05.mayfield.hp.com>,
Ted Johnson <ted@estaff05.mayfield.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
|
Used to be the norm. Only with a proper metal body. ;-)
--
*Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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fbloogyudsr
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Ted Johnson" <ted@estaff05.mayfield.hp.com> wrote
| Quote: | Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
|
As Dave said... Also, an inline-6 engine is not particularly
suited to spin-on types, because you have to dedicate some
surface, casting complexity and machining to them. If you
look, you'll notice that there's not a lot of room down there,
especially with the positioning of the motor above the cross-
member.
Floyd
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:17 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Ted Johnson" <ted@estaff05.mayfield.hp.com> wrote in message
news:cnu33p$2va@estaff05.mayfield.hp.com...
| Quote: | Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
A1 |
To be Earth friendly and for easy change.
A2
No. Most German designed engines use latest inverted replaceable element
filters, including many GM engines. More medium and heavy duty engines are
also going back to replaceable elements for the same reason as answer1.
Huw |
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Vernon Balbert
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Fred W wrote:
| Quote: | Not a direct answer to your 2 questions, but think about the design a
bit and you will see how much sense it makes. Why replace the outside
cannister every time you replace the filer? Does it wear out or
otherwise benefit the engine by replacement? No, of course not. It is
strictly for "ease of replacement". But what could possibly be easier
than the BMW design?
Now think economics: What would you rather be paying for? The whole
can and filter (as with a spin on filter) or just the filter media?
Imagine how much of the cost of a $3 spin-on Fram filter goes into the
actual filter media, which was the point of changing the filter, wasn't it?
|
Interestingly enough, my '79 528 had one of the worst filters I've ever
had the occasion to change. It was in an extremely hard to reach spot.
I would never call it easy or convenient. On the other hand my '94
530 has one of the easiest filters to change. It's right on top of the
engine. Just unscrew the lid, pull it out and pop in a new one.
As for cost, the filters seem to be more expensive than those that have
the outer canister built in. Go figure.
Vern |
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Fred W
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Ted Johnson wrote:
| Quote: | Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
Thanks in advance.
-Ted
|
Not a direct answer to your 2 questions, but think about the design a
bit and you will see how much sense it makes. Why replace the outside
cannister every time you replace the filer? Does it wear out or
otherwise benefit the engine by replacement? No, of course not. It is
strictly for "ease of replacement". But what could possibly be easier
than the BMW design?
Now think economics: What would you rather be paying for? The whole
can and filter (as with a spin on filter) or just the filter media?
Imagine how much of the cost of a $3 spin-on Fram filter goes into the
actual filter media, which was the point of changing the filter, wasn't it?
Just some points to consider...
-Fred W |
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Fred W
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:16 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Vernon Balbert wrote:
| Quote: | Fred W wrote:
Not a direct answer to your 2 questions, but think about the design a
bit and you will see how much sense it makes. Why replace the outside
cannister every time you replace the filer? Does it wear out or
otherwise benefit the engine by replacement? No, of course not. It
is strictly for "ease of replacement". But what could possibly be
easier than the BMW design?
Now think economics: What would you rather be paying for? The whole
can and filter (as with a spin on filter) or just the filter media?
Imagine how much of the cost of a $3 spin-on Fram filter goes into the
actual filter media, which was the point of changing the filter,
wasn't it?
Interestingly enough, my '79 528 had one of the worst filters I've ever
had the occasion to change. It was in an extremely hard to reach spot.
I would never call it easy or convenient. On the other hand my '94 530
has one of the easiest filters to change. It's right on top of the
engine. Just unscrew the lid, pull it out and pop in a new one.
As for cost, the filters seem to be more expensive than those that have
the outer canister built in. Go figure.
Vern
|
Yes, but the cost is applied 100% to the filter media (plus any
mark-up). Have you ever seen what the filters look like inside one of
those spin-on types? There is hardly anything there in some models.
The more modern design BMW cartridge design was what I was referring to.
-Fred W |
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bfd
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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GRL wrote:
| Quote: | Well, the problem with that reasoning is that even the best
over-the-counter
spin-on filters cost $5, with many being in the $3 to $5 range. The
lowest
I've seen for BMW 3-series replacement elements is over $6 for a
no-name
model and up to $12 for big-name models. The owner is NOT
participating in
any savings that come from not selling him a case with the filter.
As to what could be easier than a case/element design like BMW uses,
the
answer is, obviously, an all-in-one design as used by every US and
Japanese
model I know of.
The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it
either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand a
chance
of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not possible
to
change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess not
having tried
it, yet.
As for more earth-friendly...well maybe. If you return your filter to
an oil
change facility (or if you have them do the change), the filter is
recycled
and the metal re-used. If you just toss it in the trash and it goes
to a
dump, the metal of the casing is not really the problem, the problem,
if
there is one, is the oil remaining in the filter element. Not much
difference there.
I personally think the 2-part design is just another example of
German
over-engineering/complication to no really good end. Today's German
designers are, after all, the sons (daughters) of the engineers who
designed
the technologically advanced and superior German tanks of W.W.II that
were
expensive and complicated to build, largely unrepairable in the
field, and
liked to break a lot...even when not confronted by cheap to build,
crudely
designed and manufactured and easy to fix (by even peasant soldiers)
Russian
T-34's. A nation's technology products really do reflect the nation's
character.
- GRL
"Fred W" <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:UPudna_CjolaCjncRVn-sQ@adelphia.com...
Ted Johnson wrote:
Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill
mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
Thanks in advance.
-Ted
Not a direct answer to your 2 questions, but think about the design
a
bit and you will see how much sense it makes. Why replace the
outside
cannister every time you replace the filer? Does it wear out or
otherwise benefit the engine by replacement? No, of course not.
It is
strictly for "ease of replacement". But what could possibly be
easier
than the BMW design?
Now think economics: What would you rather be paying for? The
whole
can and filter (as with a spin on filter) or just the filter media?
Imagine how much of the cost of a $3 spin-on Fram filter goes into
the
actual filter media, which was the point of changing the filter,
wasn't
it?
Just some points to consider...
-Fred W |
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GRL
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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Well, the problem with that reasoning is that even the best over-the-counter
spin-on filters cost $5, with many being in the $3 to $5 range. The lowest
I've seen for BMW 3-series replacement elements is over $6 for a no-name
model and up to $12 for big-name models. The owner is NOT participating in
any savings that come from not selling him a case with the filter.
As to what could be easier than a case/element design like BMW uses, the
answer is, obviously, an all-in-one design as used by every US and Japanese
model I know of.
The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand a chance
of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not possible to
change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess not having tried
it, yet.
As for more earth-friendly...well maybe. If you return your filter to an oil
change facility (or if you have them do the change), the filter is recycled
and the metal re-used. If you just toss it in the trash and it goes to a
dump, the metal of the casing is not really the problem, the problem, if
there is one, is the oil remaining in the filter element. Not much
difference there.
I personally think the 2-part design is just another example of German
over-engineering/complication to no really good end. Today's German
designers are, after all, the sons (daughters) of the engineers who designed
the technologically advanced and superior German tanks of W.W.II that were
expensive and complicated to build, largely unrepairable in the field, and
liked to break a lot...even when not confronted by cheap to build, crudely
designed and manufactured and easy to fix (by even peasant soldiers) Russian
T-34's. A nation's technology products really do reflect the nation's
character.
- GRL
"Fred W" <Fred.Wills@SPAMmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:UPudna_CjolaCjncRVn-sQ@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | Ted Johnson wrote:
Q#1: What's the reason BMW oil filters (E36 anyway) have no
metal case?
(Perhaps to be "earth friendly" (ie, slightly less landfill mass)?
Q#2: is BMW the only mfg that does this?
Thanks in advance.
-Ted
Not a direct answer to your 2 questions, but think about the design a
bit and you will see how much sense it makes. Why replace the outside
cannister every time you replace the filer? Does it wear out or
otherwise benefit the engine by replacement? No, of course not. It is
strictly for "ease of replacement". But what could possibly be easier
than the BMW design?
Now think economics: What would you rather be paying for? The whole
can and filter (as with a spin on filter) or just the filter media?
Imagine how much of the cost of a $3 spin-on Fram filter goes into the
actual filter media, which was the point of changing the filter, wasn't
it?
Just some points to consider...
-Fred W |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:50 am Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <ef9rd.304$aX5.295@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
| Quote: | The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand a
chance of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not
possible to change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess
not having tried it, yet.
|
I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
I wrap some kitchen paper round mine - secured with a rubber band - and
manage to change it with no mess.
--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <lbWdnYs0e-A-JTDcRVn-hg@comcast.com>,
John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
Actually not, check out most Ferrari filters (spin on, but with an
anti-drainback valve).
|
Ahh - don't move in such exalted circles. ;-) But does this totally stop
drips?
<snip>
| Quote: | The location is far more accessible than some spin-on locations (auto
engineers seem to rarely place items that require regular service where
they can be serviced regularly and easily).
|
Yes - my other car has a spin off one which looks quite accessible on the
front of the engine, but proves impossible to get both hands on it to
unscrew, so usually involves a strap wrench which has little clearance to
work. At one time you could get these filters with a nut welded on the
bottom for removal purposes, but not seen one for a while.
--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:54 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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In article <66674363.0412010602.442e8410@posting.google.com>,
adder <adder1969@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I seem to remember MGBs have an upside down all-in-one filter
|
Mine - long since gone - was a three-bearing, and had a replaceable
element type.
| Quote: | but I guess the spillage just adds to the inbuilt rustproofing system.
|
Pity it didn't work then. ;-)
--
*Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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John Carrier
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:26 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d166cae29dave@davenoise.co.uk...
| Quote: | In article <ef9rd.304$aX5.295@fe07.lga>,
GRL <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote:
The all-in-one design is potentially neater to replace as if it either
drains before you unscrew it or is mounted at an angle, you stand a
chance of not spilling any oil when you remove it. I suspect is not
possible to change a 2-part filter without making a mess, but I confess
not having tried it, yet.
I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of the
engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would make a
mess when removing.
|
Actually not, check out most Ferrari filters (spin on, but with an
anti-drainback valve).
| Quote: | I wrap some kitchen paper round mine - secured with a rubber band - and
manage to change it with no mess.
|
I loosen the canister top prior to raising the car. By the time the
underside work is done, it's drained so completely it can easily be removed
with just a rag or paper towel to insure no drips.
As to the technical advantages, I'm not sure there are any. Certainly the
current system almost insures a secure seal when the canister cap is
replaced (but I have little doubt it's possible to goon it up or even
cross-thread the thing). The location is far more accessible than some
spin-on locations (auto engineers seem to rarely place items that require
regular service where they can be serviced regularly and easily).
R / John |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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|
In article <316cadF37kmp0U1@individual.net>,
Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd say it would be difficult to have a one piece mounted on top of
the engine where my E39 one is - unless 'upside down' and that would
make a mess when removing.
|
| Quote: | My Land Cruiser has one. It has a central tube so it does not spill more
than a thimble full, if any, into the built in drip tray which is bolted
to the side of the block. Neat and tidy. Which proves that nothing is
impossible.
|
No - although I suspect the removable element type is rather more space
efficient like for like.
--
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dick Schneiders
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:
Re: BMW oil filter design? (no metal case) |
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| Quote: | I wrap some kitchen paper round mine - secured with a rubber band - and
manage to change it with no mess.
|
I use a plastic grocery bag as a glove on my hand and pick up the old filter
and simply let it drop into the bag. No muss, no fuss.
I wish all my cars had this style of oil filter. |
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