| Author |
Message |
gbfmif
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:15 am Post subject:
John Delorean death |
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I find it strange there is no comment on this in the ng -
though maybe cars he was responsible for in 60's and 70's
are not yet in the antique category yet - but the Pontiac
initial designs while at GM and the DMC12 from 81 must be
close to antique cars at least loosely considered
In any case
RIP
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Rabbit
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject:
Re: John Delorean death |
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"gbfmif" <gbfmifDROPTHIS@texoma.net> wrote in message
news:4240D14A.E46B450C@texoma.net...
| Quote: | I find it strange there is no comment on this in the ng -
though maybe cars he was responsible for in 60's and 70's
are not yet in the antique category yet - but the Pontiac
initial designs while at GM and the DMC12 from 81 must be
close to antique cars at least loosely considered
In any case
RIP
|
I haven't commented, but I was saddened by his death. The man was the father
of the muscle car. I think the DeLorean's failure was mostly his fault --
I've read some less-than-glowing stories by employees, and of course the
fact that he must have known he couldn't bring them in under budget -- but
that doesn't detract from what was a fascinating car and still is today.
He was a giant in a world of bland automakers, and we owe him a lot.
Rabbit
(Why couldn't it have been Bricklin?!) |
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Shrike
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject:
special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors executi |
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:15:38 -0600, gbfmif <gbfmifDROPTHIS@texoma.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | I find it strange there is no comment on this in the ng -
though maybe cars he was responsible for in 60's and 70's
are not yet in the antique category yet - but the Pontiac
initial designs while at GM and the DMC12 from 81 must be
close to antique cars at least loosely considered
In any case
RIP
|
I think the term "antique" regarding cars is 50 years of age or more,
so, his noteworthy accomplishments beginning in the 1960's aren't
quite in the antique category. But, he certainly earned a positive
place in automotive history to offset the negative aspects he was
later involved in.
I was enlightened via several obits that I read stating that he worked
at Packard.
I have a quest to find some facts about him that I read several
decades ago but cannot locate again. I thought the facts were in the
"On a Clear Day" book but I obtained another copy of that and what I'm
looking for wasn't in there. I now wonder if what I want to know is
actually related to him; maybe it's about another GM upper echelon
executive I may have read about.
Here's what I'm trying to rediscover:
In a book I read more than 20 years ago, there was mention of six to
eight special Camaros (probably model year 1967 or 1968, but maybe
1969) special-built by the factory and given as bonuses to each of the
division heads of GM. From my recollection, I think the engines in
them were 396 cubic inches, or, special high performance 396 engines.
I think the engines had multiple Weber carburetors on them and I think
each car had a clear Plexiglas hood but with an open area over the
carbs to emphasize them being utilized. I think a Pontiac style hood
mounted tachometer was used but with a Chevy emblem instead of Pontiac
markings on it.
In the book where I learned about these special Camaros (they weren't
what later became known as "COPO" vehicles), I think there was a photo
included that showed all of them parked in a semi-circle. I have the
impression that DeLorean received one of these special cars but after
striking out searching in connection to him, I cannot think of what
other book I read this stuff in, or who it may have been about. It's
possible that the book could be about the automotive industry in
general, or GM in particular, rather than focusing mostly on one
industry related individual.
If anyone can clarify the very vague details I mention and inform me
what book contains any of this content, I would greatly appreciate
more precise information to ease my questioning mind.
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Robin Banks
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:14:12 -0600, Shrike <caltrops@newsguy.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I think the term "antique" regarding cars is 50 years of age or more
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Some states issue "antique" car plates if a car is 25 or more years old.
~~R.Banks |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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Most every state issues antique or historic plate for vehicle 25
year old and many issues "Classic" plates for car ten years old
and out of production or those of "special interest" Antique car
insurance companies will cover any car that is 15 years old, or
ten years old for those of "special interest"
mike hunt
Robin Banks wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:14:12 -0600, Shrike <caltrops@newsguy.com> wrote:
I think the term "antique" regarding cars is 50 years of age or more
Some states issue "antique" car plates if a car is 25 or more years old.
~~R.Banks |
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Rabbit
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:47 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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| Quote: | I think the term "antique" regarding cars is 50 years of age or more,
so,
|
There is no universally-accepted definition of "antique" or "classic".
Licensing bureaus, insurance agencies and car clubs all use their own
arbitrary definitions.
The only terms that are carved in stone are "pre-war" and "post-war". The
Classic Car Club of America uses the word "classic" (and I believe they have
trademarked the term "full classic") to describe cars which appear only on a
list of specific vehicles they have designated as such.
Basically you can call your car whatever you like.
Rabbit |
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Robin Banks
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:43:12 -0500, Mikehunt@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | and many issues "Classic" plates for car ten years old
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That's just wrong. If I ever see a K car with a "Classic" plate, I'll be
forced to pull over and barf.
~~R.Banks |
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Bob G
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:47:20 -0500, "Rabbit"
<rabbit@sorryspammers.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Basically you can call your car whatever you like.
Rabbit
==================== |
Yep and I do....
Bob Griffiths |
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gbfmif
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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see below
Shrike wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:15:38 -0600, gbfmif <gbfmifDROPTHIS@texoma.net
wrote:
|
snip
| Quote: | RIP
I think the term "antique" regarding cars is 50 years of age or more,
so, his noteworthy accomplishments beginning in the 1960's aren't
quite in the antique category. But, he certainly earned a positive
place in automotive history to offset the negative aspects he was
later involved in.
|
can not disagree with this in any way
| Quote: | I was enlightened via several obits that I read stating that he worked
at Packard.
|
did not see this - a url please as my first car was a 51 Chieftain
straight 8, 3 on tree 4 door - great car till I got in a bit of an
encounter with a Rambler station wagon in about 66 or 67 - the Rambler was
a total - I had a bent front bumper and fan in motor deal - long ago and
far away - wish I had kept the "wreck" but whatever
snip
| Quote: | Here's what I'm trying to rediscover:
In a book I read more than 20 years ago, there was mention of six to
eight special Camaros (probably model year 1967 or 1968, but maybe
1969) special-built by the factory and given as bonuses to each of the
division heads of GM. From my recollection, I think the engines in
them were 396 cubic inches, or, special high performance 396 engines.
I think the engines had multiple Weber carburetors on them and I think
each car had a clear Plexiglas hood but with an open area over the
carbs to emphasize them being utilized. I think a Pontiac style hood
mounted tachometer was used but with a Chevy emblem instead of Pontiac
markings on it.
In the book where I learned about these special Camaros (they weren't
what later became known as "COPO" vehicles), I think there was a photo
included that showed all of them parked in a semi-circle. I have the
impression that DeLorean received one of these special cars but after
striking out searching in connection to him, I cannot think of what
other book I read this stuff in, or who it may have been about. It's
possible that the book could be about the automotive industry in
general, or GM in particular, rather than focusing mostly on one
industry related individual.
If anyone can clarify the very vague details I mention and inform me
what book contains any of this content, I would greatly appreciate
more precise information to ease my questioning mind.
|
do not have an answer - will try a search also and tell you result |
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Paul Spencer
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:47:20 -0500, "Rabbit"
<rabbit@sorryspammers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The only terms that are carved in stone are "pre-war" and "post-war". The
Classic Car Club of America uses the word "classic" (and I believe they have
trademarked the term "full classic") to describe cars which appear only on a
list of specific vehicles they have designated as such.
|
In the UK, the terms "veteran" (before 1905) and "vintage" (before
1931) are well defined and supported by the Veteran Car Club and the
Vintage Sports Car Club (and probably others). Are the terms the same
in the USA?
--
P |
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Rabbit
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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| Quote: | In the UK, the terms "veteran" (before 1905) and "vintage" (before
1931) are well defined and supported by the Veteran Car Club and the
Vintage Sports Car Club (and probably others). Are the terms the same
in the USA?
|
I believe they are, but again, even a club's name and definition isn't
necessarily universal -- the Antique Automobile Club of America sets out the
definition of "antique" but it's not carved in stone for anyone else.
Rabbit |
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Paul Spencer
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:31:26 -0500, "Rabbit"
<rabbit@sorryspammers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In the UK, the terms "veteran" (before 1905) and "vintage" (before
1931) are well defined and supported by the Veteran Car Club and the
Vintage Sports Car Club (and probably others). Are the terms the same
in the USA?
I believe they are, but again, even a club's name and definition isn't
necessarily universal -- the Antique Automobile Club of America sets out the
definition of "antique" but it's not carved in stone for anyone else.
They are pretty much universal here, but we have no concept of |
"antique" in relation to cars. There are a few variations - Bentley
existed in its original form until 1931, so 1931 Bentleys are
universally described as "vintage" although they are officially after
the vintage period.
We also have nothing that relates to the age of a vehicle - the
veteran and vintage dates don't change. Insurance companies use their
own age-related criteria for "classics" and over a certain age (I
think around 25 years) we don't pay a road fund licence. I think that
date might change every year so the age remains constant, but I am not
certain and could not find the information quickly. Perhaps someone
else here knows.
Personally, I think the ability of any car to become a classic ended
with the introduction of computers into vehicles. My 1926 Bentley can
be kept running for ever by making parts as required. If my Boxster
ever needs a new ECU and Porsche (or Bosch or whoever) no longer make
it, the car is as good as scrap.
--
P |
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dreas
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:51 pm Post subject:
Re: John Delorean death |
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"Rabbit" <rabbit@sorryspammers.com> wrote in message
news:3ad7uuF6bb2j9U1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
"gbfmif" <gbfmifDROPTHIS@texoma.net> wrote in message
news:4240D14A.E46B450C@texoma.net...
I find it strange there is no comment on this in the ng -
though maybe cars he was responsible for in 60's and 70's
are not yet in the antique category yet - but the Pontiac
initial designs while at GM and the DMC12 from 81 must be
close to antique cars at least loosely considered
In any case
RIP
I haven't commented, but I was saddened by his death. The man was the
father
of the muscle car. I think the DeLorean's failure was mostly his fault --
I've read some less-than-glowing stories by employees, and of course the
fact that he must have known he couldn't bring them in under budget -- but
that doesn't detract from what was a fascinating car and still is today.
He was a giant in a world of bland automakers, and we owe him a lot.
Rabbit
(Why couldn't it have been Bricklin?!)
|
Malcolm Bricklin Returns!
The man who produced a gull-wing sports car in Canada bearing his own
name, introduced Subaru to America, gave the world the Rabbit scooter
from Fuji, backed an electric-powered bicycle and brought Yugo to the
US, has been re-energized for yet another automotive venture. The irre-
pressible Malcolm Bricklin, who turned 65 last year, has signed on as the
licensed importer for Chery Automobile Co., an automaker in China.
Bricklin, who has left a trail littered with ill-fated ventures, enjoyed his
best success with Subaru but is best remembered for his namesake, a
two-passenger gull-wing sports coupe made in New Brunswick, Canada
in '74-'76. The plastic-bodied sports car sold for $7500 in 1974 when
772 were made, and then $9800 in 1975 and 1976, when 2,100 and 17
were produced, respectively. The sleek little fastback was powered by
an AMC 360ci V-8 rated at 175 hp in '74, and then a Ford 351ci V-8
delivering 162 hp in the final two seasons. It was fast and economical.
-Cars & Parts, In The Headlights, Amos Press, inc, April 2005
-'dreas |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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There are restriction as to when a vehicle can be issued a
"Classic" plate after ten years. "Historic" plates are issued to
ANY vehicle over 25 years old. Your example of the average 'K'
car would not make the grade till 25 years. One in mint condition
would qualify at ten year, however. There are restriction on the
use of a vehicle with a "Classic" plate, as to annual miles and a
restriction against use as general transportation.
I own six old cars with "Historic" or "Classic" plates issued by
the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. You will love this. One is a
1971 Pinto, that I bought new in 1970. It wins awards in its
class when I take it to old car shows. It was issued a "Classic"
plate when I applied in 1982. The Pinto has the original drive
train, was repainted in 1986, still looks and runs like new, with
nearly 300K on the clock. ;)
mike hunt
Robin Banks wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:43:12 -0500, Mikehunt@lycos.com wrote:
and many issues "Classic" plates for car ten years old
That's just wrong. If I ever see a K car with a "Classic" plate, I'll be
forced to pull over and barf.
~~R.Banks |
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Bob G.
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject:
Re: special late-1960's Camaros built for General Motors exe |
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| Quote: |
Personally, I think the ability of any car to become a classic ended
with the introduction of computers into vehicles. My 1926 Bentley can
be kept running for ever by making parts as required. If my Boxster
ever needs a new ECU and Porsche (or Bosch or whoever) no longer make
it, the car is as good as scrap.
============= |
I have to admit that I also have serious doubts about any of todays
cars becoming Clasics...mostly because of those damn computers... lol
I am in my 60's ...and always enjoyed cars.. never really got into
cars like your Bentley ...as a young man I was into Hot Rodding
my rides...but over the years slowely got into rebuilding them piece
by piece ..still do not use the term "restoring" as that really is not
my purpose...
I understand a 60's era muscle cars... SO what is to say that 50
years from now "rebuilding" a very old and primitive ECU for your
Boxer would not be as common as installing Valve Seals on a SBC...
Bob Griffiths |
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