| Author |
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Huw
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:49 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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"Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u4rod.8696$pK6.7051@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:30eqovF2upkghU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Rich Lockyer" <rlockyer@linkline.DONTSPAMME.com> wrote in message
news:ai32q0do2jb22ferhmcchuaf71o45cakv4@4ax.com...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:50:48 -0000, "Huw"
hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I am not making light of the difficulties faced by an occupying army in
battle. That surely does not excuse barbarity. If the shoe were on the
other
foot, as it undoubtedly often is, is it acceptable that US soldiers are
executed in similar circumstances? Of course not.
If a US soldier were to execute such a cowardly act as to feign death
or injury in an attempt to gain the upper hand in a battlefield
situation or avoid capture, I would expect the enemy to put a shell
into his head upon discovery of that.
If that is what happened and the man was armed to commit such an act then
fair enough. That does not seem to be the case though does it. The action
is caught on film. What 'gets my goat', as Philip put it, is that some
here glorify and applaud the deed irrespective of the circumstances. Now
if it were Iraqis putting down US soldiers in the same way, which they
may very well do for all I know, then I would expect them to find it not
at all acceptable behaviour.
Huw
Then Huw, perhaps you need to know more.
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We will all know more when the soldier is tried for war crime and either
convicted or exonerated.
Huw
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:01 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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"Scott in Florida" <NotInTheNextLifetime@nope.ucan't> wrote in message
news:o8f4q0hqkuh05a9l7jf1js9n1htodrejkr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:47:33 -0000, "Huw"
hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
"Rich Lockyer" <rlockyer@linkline.DONTSPAMME.com> wrote in message
news:ai32q0do2jb22ferhmcchuaf71o45cakv4@4ax.com...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:50:48 -0000, "Huw"
hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I am not making light of the difficulties faced by an occupying army in
battle. That surely does not excuse barbarity. If the shoe were on the
other
foot, as it undoubtedly often is, is it acceptable that US soldiers are
executed in similar circumstances? Of course not.
If a US soldier were to execute such a cowardly act as to feign death
or injury in an attempt to gain the upper hand in a battlefield
situation or avoid capture, I would expect the enemy to put a shell
into his head upon discovery of that.
If that is what happened and the man was armed to commit such an act then
fair enough.
Please explain to us...how a marine is supposed to know this ahead of
time?
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Don't be facile. This is on film and the man was just shot at close range
for no good reason that anyone can think of other than he was an injured and
shot Iraqi.
| Quote: |
You seem to be one of those 'liberal' armchair military people.
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I am neither 'liberal', 'armchair' nor military. I do know right from wrong
though.
| Quote: |
I suggest...if you are really interested....go volunteer to join your
countrymen in Iraq and report back to us.
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Is this a prerequisite of knowing right from wrong these days?
| Quote: |
Me thinks....that would change your mind...the first time one of your
friends was blown up by one of those 'nice' terrorists...
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Aha. So a war instigated by the US and UK and whose soldiers are an invading
force [obviously they are not native and were not invited to tea] can be
excused for commiting any attrocity because they are fighting to win.
Tell that to a court investigating war crimes.
| Quote: |
That does not seem to be the case though does it. The action is
caught on film. What 'gets my goat', as Philip put it, is that some here
glorify and applaud the deed irrespective of the circumstances.
The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things.
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The purpose of your military is to defend the US and its interests. But
maybe your military and its political leaders are indeed out of control and
now [again] embark on foreign adventures to subdue and kill and break.
Do you think North Korea is paranoid when it arms itself to the teeth in the
face of such action and apparent barbarity by the US while US citizens
applaud such barbarity?
| Quote: |
Now if it
were Iraqis putting down US soldiers in the same way, which they may very
well do for all I know, then I would expect them to find it not at all
acceptable behaviour.
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No answer to that most important point of all. That is indeed interesting
and points to your monstrous hypocrisy.
Huw |
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FanJet
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:22 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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ToMh wrote:
| Quote: | "FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tFmod.4334$Fg2.1745644@newshog.newsread.com...
ToMh wrote:
"MDT Tech®" <GOP_Majority@whitehouse.gov> wrote in message
news:XUAnd.472$uV6.420@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
FanJet wrote:
Scott in Florida wrote:
http://www.petitiononline.com/as123/petition.html
Perhaps you'd care to explain, in a believable way, why you think
this necessary.
Perhaps you'd care to explain, in a believable way, why you think
that is necessary.
As usual, MDT is incapable of a reasoned response to a simple
question. I'm still waiting for one response from you that actually
took some
thought.
It's not just him although he might win the idiot of idiots award.
Like most of these threads, this one weaaaaay longer than necessary.
All other considerations aside, the solder in dispute acted
unprofessionally, putting other members of his team in additional
danger. In order for him to be a trusted member of any military
organization, he must conduct himself in a professional, predictable
way. He didn't and I have no doubt that he knows that. A
professional wouldn't expect to 'get away' with something like this
and would be embarrassed by this petition. I'm sure he wishes these
clowns would disappear I wish him luck.
First off, I do not agree with your point of view. I don't think you
can
pass judgment on a soldier who is battling for his life and the
lives of his fellow soldiers. People who have never been in
this situation need to be very careful about passing judgment.
If this guy was in chains and verifiably not a danger, that would
be a different story, but the battle was still going on, and they
were hardly free from danger, and every enemy was still a
potential threat. War is hell and I'm grateful that I never
had to be in that situation. Now back to your question on
why the petition is necessary, I doubt it is, unless this soldier
is facing a court martial. I suspect it's more of a knee jerk
reaction, but if this guy was facing a court martial or
dishonorable discharge, then I think it could have merit,
and I'd even consider signing it, although I read it and think
it contained a lot of iffy information,commentary and
wasn't very professionally done.
|
First, you don't know where I've been or what I've done. Contrary to mixed
signals from the idiots at the whitehouse, the battle in Iraq has been going
on since the day we landed. ALL day, EVERYDAY. There are rules of engagement
that we publicly subscribe to. If they're ignored, at least we shouldn't do
it while being filmed. Is there anyone still firing on all cylinders?? As to
the need for the petition, PLEASE:
Bush was re-elected, Rumsfeld is in charge and nothing will happen to the
solider. NOTHING.
BTW, "wasn't very professionally done" is kind.
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Huw
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:44 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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"FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| Quote: | BTW, "wasn't very professionally done" is kind.
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Exceptionally.
Huw |
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Scott in Florida
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:48 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:44:22 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
"FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message
BTW, "wasn't very professionally done" is kind.
Exceptionally.
Huw
NEWS RELEASE |
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND
7115 South Boundary Boulevard
MacDill AFB, Fla. 33621-5101
Phone: (813) 827-5894; FAX: (813) 827-2211; DSN 651-5894
November 22, 2004
Release Number: 04-11-77
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
INSURGENTS FAKING DEAD FIRES ON MARINES
FALLUJAH, Iraq – Marines from the 1st Marine Division shot and killed
an insurgent, who while faking dead, opened fire on the Marines that
were conducting a security and clearing patrol through the streets
here at approximately 3:45 p.m. on 21 November.
--
Scott in Florida |
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Scott in Florida
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:49 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:22:27 GMT, "FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | ToMh wrote:
"FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tFmod.4334$Fg2.1745644@newshog.newsread.com...
ToMh wrote:
"MDT Tech®" <GOP_Majority@whitehouse.gov> wrote in message
news:XUAnd.472$uV6.420@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
FanJet wrote:
Scott in Florida wrote:
http://www.petitiononline.com/as123/petition.html
Perhaps you'd care to explain, in a believable way, why you think
this necessary.
Perhaps you'd care to explain, in a believable way, why you think
that is necessary.
As usual, MDT is incapable of a reasoned response to a simple
question. I'm still waiting for one response from you that actually
took some
thought.
It's not just him although he might win the idiot of idiots award.
Like most of these threads, this one weaaaaay longer than necessary.
All other considerations aside, the solder in dispute acted
unprofessionally, putting other members of his team in additional
danger. In order for him to be a trusted member of any military
organization, he must conduct himself in a professional, predictable
way. He didn't and I have no doubt that he knows that. A
professional wouldn't expect to 'get away' with something like this
and would be embarrassed by this petition. I'm sure he wishes these
clowns would disappear I wish him luck.
First off, I do not agree with your point of view. I don't think you
can
pass judgment on a soldier who is battling for his life and the
lives of his fellow soldiers. People who have never been in
this situation need to be very careful about passing judgment.
If this guy was in chains and verifiably not a danger, that would
be a different story, but the battle was still going on, and they
were hardly free from danger, and every enemy was still a
potential threat. War is hell and I'm grateful that I never
had to be in that situation. Now back to your question on
why the petition is necessary, I doubt it is, unless this soldier
is facing a court martial. I suspect it's more of a knee jerk
reaction, but if this guy was facing a court martial or
dishonorable discharge, then I think it could have merit,
and I'd even consider signing it, although I read it and think
it contained a lot of iffy information,commentary and
wasn't very professionally done.
First, you don't know where I've been or what I've done. Contrary to mixed
signals from the idiots at the whitehouse, the battle in Iraq has been going
on since the day we landed. ALL day, EVERYDAY. There are rules of engagement
that we publicly subscribe to. If they're ignored, at least we shouldn't do
it while being filmed. Is there anyone still firing on all cylinders?? As to
the need for the petition, PLEASE:
Bush was re-elected, Rumsfeld is in charge and nothing will happen to the
solider. NOTHING.
BTW, "wasn't very professionally done" is kind.
NEWS RELEASE |
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND
7115 South Boundary Boulevard
MacDill AFB, Fla. 33621-5101
Phone: (813) 827-5894; FAX: (813) 827-2211; DSN 651-5894
November 22, 2004
Release Number: 04-11-77
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
INSURGENTS FAKING DEAD FIRES ON MARINES
FALLUJAH, Iraq – Marines from the 1st Marine Division shot and killed
an insurgent, who while faking dead, opened fire on the Marines that
were conducting a security and clearing patrol through the streets
here at approximately 3:45 p.m. on 21 November.
--
Scott in Florida |
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ToMh
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:16 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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"FanJet" <FanJet27@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:nMsod.5150$Pd2.2135114@monger.newsread.com...
| Quote: | First, you don't know where I've been or what I've done.
|
I didn't say I did, but please tell us of your battle experience.
| Quote: | Contrary to mixed
signals from the idiots at the whitehouse, the battle in Iraq has been going
on since the day we landed. ALL day, EVERYDAY. There are rules of engagement
that we publicly subscribe to. If they're ignored, at least we shouldn't do
it while being filmed.
|
I don't think you have a clue what the "rules of engagement" are.
I do agree that there should not have been a camera crew there.
That I don't understand.
| Quote: | Is there anyone still firing on all cylinders??
|
How the hell do you know? And they don't need to be firing on
all cylinders to kill you.
| Quote: | As to
the need for the petition, PLEASE:
|
I don't think there is a need either, but I don't know what the
repercussions are for the soldier either.
| Quote: | Bush was re-elected, Rumsfeld is in charge and nothing will happen to the
solider. NOTHING.
|
I really don't see the president interfering with the military on
this.
| Quote: | BTW, "wasn't very professionally done" is kind.
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:43 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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No wonder you posts are always so far off base. You don't know
what you are commenting on. Do some research, there are all
kinds of records of the involvement of the US in the war in
Europe between 1939 and 1941, while we were officially a neutral
country. There are plenty of records of the Presidents service
in the NG and his Honorable Discharge.
mike
bb wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:47:48 -0500, MikeHunt@lycos.com wrote:
Our commander in Chief in W.W.II,
Didn't invade a country under false pretense.
President Bush unlike
FDR had military training
So they say. There's just no record of it.
bb |
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dizzy
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:00 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:23:31 GMT, "Philip"
<1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.politicalcompass.org
|
My score:
Economic Left/Right: -2.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26
Not too far from the middle, especially considering my contempt for
the evils of the elite wealthy businessman... |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:09 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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Just remember it is those wealthy businessman that are making if
possible for you to get and education. If you ever do get out of
school one day, you will most likely get a job because of one of
those elite wealthy businessman ;)
mike
dizzy wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:23:31 GMT, "Philip"
1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote:
http://www.politicalcompass.org
My score:
Economic Left/Right: -2.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26
Not too far from the middle, especially considering my contempt for
the evils of the elite wealthy businessman... |
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dizzy
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:57:46 -0500, MikeHunt@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | You are hearing from naive' people that were never in the
military, let alone in combat. In Normandy if somebody took of
picture of one of our guys shooting a Kraut, pretending to be
injured or dead, we would have shot him as well. War is war, not
a sport where both the winner and looser get to go home.
|
Pretty amazing that those scumbags can kill innocent people all they
want, but one of them gets shot under questionable conditions, and
they're all in an uproar. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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In article <neb5q01m59t6fqm8l8fhsqfsbp5vif69f6@4ax.com>,
dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:57:46 -0500, MikeHunt@lycos.com wrote:
You are hearing from naive' people that were never in the
military, let alone in combat. In Normandy if somebody took of
picture of one of our guys shooting a Kraut, pretending to be
injured or dead, we would have shot him as well. War is war, not
a sport where both the winner and looser get to go home.
Pretty amazing that those scumbags can kill innocent people all they
want, but one of them gets shot under questionable conditions, and
they're all in an uproar.
|
diz maybe you ought to move to france or iraq
-- |
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Scott in Florida
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:25:01 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:57:46 -0500, MikeHunt@lycos.com wrote:
You are hearing from naive' people that were never in the
military, let alone in combat. In Normandy if somebody took of
picture of one of our guys shooting a Kraut, pretending to be
injured or dead, we would have shot him as well. War is war, not
a sport where both the winner and looser get to go home.
Pretty amazing that those scumbags can kill innocent people all they
want, but one of them gets shot under questionable conditions, and
they're all in an uproar.
|
omg...I agree with dizzy again...
What is this world coming to?
--
Scott in Florida |
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Rich Lockyer
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:47:33 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | If that is what happened and the man was armed to commit such an act then
fair enough. That does not seem to be the case though does it.
|
On tape or not, nobody, here or there at the time, had any way of
knowing if or what may have been hidden under his body or in a hand.
It is a known fact that the insurgents' battlefield tactics include
the booby-trapping of the dead and wounded, as well as faking death
and popping up firing behind our troops... as displayed on LAST
weekend's tape.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ |
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MDT Tech®
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: OT Petition to US Congress about the US Marine who 'offe |
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bb sized brain wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:28:11 -0800, Rich Lockyer
rlockyer@linkline.DONTSPAMME.com> wrote:
CIC, Chickenhawk in Chief.
But guess what. He's President. You're not.
Absolutely brilliant Rich. One would have to search the internet for
years to find such an original and thought provoking comment.
bb <---brain size
|
Kinda like your CIC comment? Yeah, that original. IF GWB is so bad, how
come Kerry was unable to beat him? HHHHHHhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? |
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