| Author |
Message |
Dan_Musicant
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject:
Gas |
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OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it
in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and
I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum
industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other
industry associated in any way with gasoline.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he
couldn't really say, it seemed.
I thought I'd throw this out there and see what other people think.
Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from
Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give
them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a
giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be
reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.
Dan
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2cadt0h1c7pc9prj3ui5dtk271kpvf93vh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
|
Did he tell you about
1. Octane levels
2. Leaded vs. lead-free gasoline
3. Additives e.g. MMT
4. Supplementary mixed fuels e.g. alcohol ?
Most pumps are labeled for what they contain in all
four respects.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Joseph Meehan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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Dan_Musicant wrote:
| Quote: | OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting
it in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that
NG, and I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if
he thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd
been encountering. He didn't agree at all.
|
Gasoline can vary in many ways. Octane is just one. Additives, age of
the gas, cleanliness formula (winter vs. summer) etc. all make differences.
Brands are not very different in NA as regulations and market forces tend to
keep them the same.
My recommendation is simple. Only buy from stations that do a lot of
business and buy the octane specified for your engine by the manufacturer or
if the engine is old and starting to show signs that it needs higher go a
little higher. (higher octane does not mean more power, better gas or
better additives)
--
Joseph Meehan
26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Dan_Musicant
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 09:09:34 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
:"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
:news:2cadt0h1c7pc9prj3ui5dtk271kpvf93vh@4ax.com...
:
:> I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
:> thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
:> encountering. He didn't agree at all.
:
:Did he tell you about
:1. Octane levels
:2. Leaded vs. lead-free gasoline
:3. Additives e.g. MMT
:4. Supplementary mixed fuels e.g. alcohol ?
:Most pumps are labeled for what they contain in all
:four respects.
No, we didn't talk about all that. I'm in California and I don't think
they're selling leaded gasoline. We do have additives and the CA
standards are different from most of the USA, making the gas a fair
amount more expensive, probably in the neighborhood of 10%. Gasohol is
starting to take off, at least in some places I guess. Can most cars
burn gasohol? I should take the time to read the pumps, like you say.
I want to die calm and peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not
kicking and screaming like the passengers of his car. |
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Edwin Pawlowski
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
| Quote: |
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he
couldn't really say, it seemed.
|
Spend a day at the docks and the gas storage places. You'll see all sorts
of truck getting the same gas for different brand stations.
It may be possible that the truck responded to a different gas, but there
may be other reasons. Why was it sluggish? Is there some mechanical reason
that it was not running properly?
Unless something was different than normal (he may have changed computers
for all I know) there is no difference in 99% of the cars designed for 87
octane.
I drive about 30,000 miles a year, sometimes as much as 50,000. I've tried
different brands, different octanes, and if the car is running properly I've
not see any difference. This is in a half dozen cars I've driven over the
past 15 or 20 years.
I go for cheap and have no problems. My older car has 139,000 miles (the
plugs were changed at 75,000) and it starts, runs, and gets the same gas
mileage as the day it was new. My new car has 90,000 miles, original plugs,
same deal.
Try the 76 and report back. Chances are thee will be no difference except a
few $ out of your wallet. |
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willshak
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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On 1/1/2005 10:15 AM US(ET), Dan_Musicant took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:
| Quote: | On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 09:09:34 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
:"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
:news:2cadt0h1c7pc9prj3ui5dtk271kpvf93vh@4ax.com...
:
:> I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
:> thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
:> encountering. He didn't agree at all.
:
:Did he tell you about
:1. Octane levels
:2. Leaded vs. lead-free gasoline
:3. Additives e.g. MMT
:4. Supplementary mixed fuels e.g. alcohol ?
:Most pumps are labeled for what they contain in all
:four respects.
No, we didn't talk about all that. I'm in California and I don't think
they're selling leaded gasoline. We do have additives and the CA
standards are different from most of the USA, making the gas a fair
amount more expensive, probably in the neighborhood of 10%. Gasohol is
starting to take off, at least in some places I guess. Can most cars
burn gasohol? I should take the time to read the pumps, like you say.
|
In my area of NY, the Getty gas stations are the cheapest. They could be
up to $0.10 (10 cents) per gallon cheaper than other stations in the
same general area. If you look on the Getty pumps, you will see a
sticker saying that the gas contains 10% Ethanol, rather than the ground
polluting, mpg lowering, and more expensive MBTE, which other gas
stations have added to their winter gas. I have been using the Getty
gas, and don't find any difference in engine performance.
--
Bill |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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waste of money using premium gas when your motor will run on
regular..The really old cars run like shit on the 10% ethanol/gasoline
fuel |
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Edwin Pawlowski
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
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"willshak" <willshak@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
| Quote: | If you look on the Getty pumps, you will see a sticker saying that the
gas contains 10% Ethanol, rather than the ground polluting, mpg lowering,
and more expensive MBTE, which other gas stations have added to their
winter gas.
|
I think most stations are using ethanol now. MBTE is being banned in many
areas. |
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Bob G.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:54:29 GMT, Dan_Musicant <dmusicant@pacbell.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it
in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and
I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum
industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other
industry associated in any way with gasoline.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he
couldn't really say, it seemed.
I thought I'd throw this out there and see what other people think.
Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from
Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give
them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a
giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be
reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.
Dan
|
I think it was Edwin who advised you to spend some time at the docks
or refineries... BELIEVE HIM....
Actually my Brother was (he died a few years ago) employed by a major
Petroleum Company...( Chem Eng) .... and he told me that the raw
refined gasoline regardless of brand is 100 percent the same... The
difference is in the additives that are added to that raw gasoline by
each specific brand .
Very Common for Exxon to swap 100,000 barrels of gas to say Texaco in
Penna for an equal amount of gas in California ...hell of a lot
cheaper then transporting it... that gas then has Exxons additives
mixed with it and is trucked to Exxons Stations ...
He advised me ...to .. SWITCH BRANDS... every 5000 or so miles...
especially in my cars that still ran carburetors ...since the
additives can accumulate...switching brands has a tendency to
reduce the accumulation (don't ask me how...I guess because the new
additives can remove the build up left by the old additives......he
did explain it but I lone ago forgot the facts)...
Anyhow I have been following his advice for at least 15 years and have
had absolutely no problems ...BUT who said I would have had problems
if I just stuck with one brand...
Both my brother and I "restored" and collected cars as a hobby and
most of them were 50's and 60' Muscle cars with Carburetors.. and like
your cars were not driven move then 2500 miles a year... (we both add
lead to the gas however if the engines were originally designed for
for leaded gas...and we always parked the cars with full tanks of
gas...
BUT if you drive so little ...why are you even bothered with saving 2
cents a gallon by driving to Costco etc... The cost of gasoline is
such a small amount ot what it costs you to own and drive the cars
(consider deprecation, insurance, etc) that driving an extra mile to
find a cheap station is a waste of time...
Just my thought on New Years Day.... and it is nice not to be hung
over....
Bob Griffiths |
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SoCalMike
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:15 am Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
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Dan_Musicant wrote:
| Quote: | Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from
Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give
them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a
giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be
reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.
|
to me, there are 3 tiers of gas...
the full price, like chevron, 76, etc.
the discounters, like costco, sams, vons
the unknown mom n pop places.
the discounters have a reputation to uphold, so their stations are
generally clean, and they still have a good price. i just dont trust the
unknowns. yes, they all get gas from the same sources. but who knows
when the mom n pop places replace their gas pump fuel filters, etc. |
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Tom N
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:15 am Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
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Dan_Musicant wrote:
| Quote: | OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it
in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and
I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum
industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other
industry associated in any way with gasoline.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
|
In Australia it seems we have different octane ratings to you. Ordinary unleaded gas (we call it petrol) is 91
octane. Premium is 95 or 96. There are some super premiums at 98 octane.
I have an 89 Ford Telstar (which is a rebadged Mazda 626, made by Mazda in Japan). It has about 100k miles on
it.
My mechanic recommended Shell Premium (96 Octane) as he said while it costs more (approx 10%), the
decreased fuel consumption will often make up the difference, plus the engine will run cooler.
I thought it was hogwash until one day when we were on a long trip in summer (when it was 95-100 degrees F air
temperature), the engine was getting very hot (almost at the top of the gauge) so the next lot of fuel we put in was
preimum. The engine immediately went back to normal temperature. Plus we have found the lower fuel
consumption more than makes up for the extra cost, so we have stuck with premium.
91 octane fuel is below the common octane levels in many other countries, but usually high-selling imported cars
sold here are modified to run ok on 91. However some cars (sporty cars e.g. Mazda RX8, or low selling models
like VW Polo) are not modified so they require 95 octane.
http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_detail.asp?id=15
http://www.bp.com.au/catalogue/default.asp
Shell http://tinyurl.com/5hanq
Here we also get coupons for Caltex and Shell from the two major supermarkets. Spend $30 AUD or more and
gets 4c AUD / litre off the next petrol purchase - that's about 4% off.
Petrol here is about $1.00 AUD / litre - that's about $2.95 USD per US gallon. Premium is about 10% dearer. |
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HeatMan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
|
76, huh?
Around here, the Octane ratings are 87, 98, 91, and sometimes 93...
"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2cadt0h1c7pc9prj3ui5dtk271kpvf93vh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it
in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and
I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum
industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other
industry associated in any way with gasoline.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he
couldn't really say, it seemed.
I thought I'd throw this out there and see what other people think.
Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from
Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give
them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a
giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be
reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.
Dan |
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willshak
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
|
On 1/2/2005 10:40 AM US(ET), HeatMan took fingers to keys, and typed the
following:
| Quote: | 76, huh?
Around here, the Octane ratings are 87, 98, 91, and sometimes 93...
76 is not the octane number, it is the brand of gas. http://www.76.com/ |
| Quote: |
"Dan_Musicant" <dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2cadt0h1c7pc9prj3ui5dtk271kpvf93vh@4ax.com...
OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it
in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and
I know almost all of them drive.
I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he
thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been
encountering. He didn't agree at all.
Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum
industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other
industry associated in any way with gasoline.
He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high
octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the
truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other
people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to
76. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.
I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he
couldn't really say, it seemed.
I thought I'd throw this out there and see what other people think.
Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from
Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give
them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a
giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be
reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.
Dan
|
--
Bill |
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Don Klipstein
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
|
In article <33ra9hF42e27cU1@individual.net>, TURTLE wrote:
<SNIP>
| Quote: |
This is Turtle Again.
*** Octane Burns to make the car run good.
*** Additive clean and fix problems.
*** Yes Gasohol is different but it has a octane rating as the same as not.
Alcohol is a very good fuel to burn for if you will check up here on the fuel
the cars in the Indy 500 are using. You will find out they use pure Alcohol
burning of the fuel. They don't use gas because you can get more power out of
Alcohol fuel than unleaded gas. All the high speed or drag racer prefer Pure
Alcohol over unleaded gas. So if it is me, Give me 90% Alcohol and 10% gas and
get more power and mileage.
|
Actually, alcohol has such a high octane rating that race car engines
designed to burn it have a higher compression ratio.
Without the higher compression ratio, an engine would actually get less
energy from a gallon of alcohol than from a gallon of gasoline. Fuel
mileage would actually be a little worse.
Cars often get very slightly less mileage with "gasohol" and other
"oxygenated fuel" because these fuels have slightly less chemical energy
per gallon.
Some high octane gasolines have alcohol to boost the octane and as a
result you may get very slightly less fuel economy and power.
----------------------------------------------------------
As for higher octane than the instructions call for being necessary when
the engine has a lot of miles on it: This is *sometimes* true. The usual
cause is bad spark plugs (replace) or carbon deposits in the engine making
detonation occur more easily. Probably less likely if you properly
maintain your engine and air filter. But only use higher octane to the
extent necessary to eliminate knocking.
----------------------------------------------------------
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com) |
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Don Klipstein
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Gas |
|
|
In article <33ra9hF42e27cU1@individual.net>, TURTLE wrote:
<SNIP>
| Quote: |
This is Turtle Again.
*** Octane Burns to make the car run good.
*** Additive clean and fix problems.
*** Yes Gasohol is different but it has a octane rating as the same as not.
Alcohol is a very good fuel to burn for if you will check up here on the fuel
the cars in the Indy 500 are using. You will find out they use pure Alcohol
burning of the fuel. They don't use gas because you can get more power out of
Alcohol fuel than unleaded gas. All the high speed or drag racer prefer Pure
Alcohol over unleaded gas. So if it is me, Give me 90% Alcohol and 10% gas and
get more power and mileage.
|
Actually, alcohol has such a high octane rating that race car engines
designed to burn it have a higher compression ratio. (Indy cars burn
methanol rather than ethanol, but that does not change any other points.)
Without the higher compression ratio, an engine would actually get less
energy from a gallon of alcohol than from a gallon of gasoline. Fuel
mileage would actually be a little worse.
Cars often get very slightly less mileage with "gasohol" and other
"oxygenated fuel" because these fuels have slightly less chemical energy
per gallon.
Some high octane gasolines have (or at least had several years ago)
alcohol to boost the octane and as a result sometimes get/got very
slightly less fuel economy and power.
----------------------------------------------------------
As for higher octane than the instructions call for being necessary when
the engine has a lot of miles on it: This is *sometimes* true. The usual
cause is bad spark plugs (replace) or carbon deposits in the engine making
detonation occur more easily. Probably less likely if you properly
maintain your engine and air filter. But only use higher octane to the
extent necessary to eliminate knocking.
----------------------------------------------------------
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com) |
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