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« Paul »
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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mark575757@mailcity.com wrote:
Interesting article but I find the low numbers for Mitsu, Isuzu,
Hyundai, Volkswagen and several others hard to believe. |
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Jonathan Race
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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A very interesting web page, populated almost entirely by advertising and
personal opinion without ever quoting a source for their information or the
data they use to put together their graphs and charts. Whomever runs it
seems to have a very big stake in Amazon.com as well. Altogether, nothing
more than the ramblings of someone who doesn't like American autos in
general and GM in particular trying to masquerade his or her prejudices as
fact - and trying to lead readers down the garden path of "if it's on the
internet it must be true".
We should all stick with reputable sources who can back up their data and
not pseudo-statistical garbage which is nothing more than personal opinion
and bias.
--
Jonathan A. Race
Lieutenant, EMS Supervisor
Orange County (FL) Fire Rescue Department
(This message may contain personal opinions and/or information not related
to my employment or employer)
<mark575757@mailcity.com> wrote in message
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stuart8181
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:40 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close with
all the other contenders....
<mark575757@mailcity.com> wrote in message
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UserName
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:56 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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"stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close with
all the other contenders....
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You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten years that seem to
affect more engine sizes every year ? With no fix in sight yet ?
Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have no fix for but still
seem to be producing ? |
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:26 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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"UserName" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:10sugd7le6td907@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: |
"stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even
close with all the other contenders....
You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten
years that seem to affect more engine sizes every year ?
With no fix in sight yet ?
|
I thought they "engineered" a new version of the
gaskets. Are they still a problem?
| Quote: | Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have
no fix for but still seem to be producing ?
|
Are you referring to "piston slap"? Yes, I agree...that should have been
addressed long ago! Just about ever GM vehicle on my street makes that
knocking noise at first morning startup this time of year. Many are loud
enough for me to hear inside my masonry home! None of the other brands do
this. Sad indeed! Plus GM seems to have hung on to pushrod engines longer
than just about everyone else that migrated to DHOC engines as standard
lineups years ago. So, they seemed late to the game there (they seem to be
coming on stronger now, but DOHC is usually a pricey option). Although, I
like pushrod engines. Regardless, the perception is that they're behind the
competition, not in the forefront (real perception or not).
Some of GM's most recent engineering achievements are not particularly
noteworthy in my view. DRL's (a waste of energy and likely a public outcry
nightmare for them). Constant annoying "chimes" for just about everything,
including locking the doors and when you forget to wipe your butt. "Auto"
speed sensitive radio volume control (if the cars were as quiet as the
competitors, this wouldn't be needed). Control systems that totally or
partly removes control of important functions from the driver (where the law
clearly says it belongs). GM is trying to "bell and whistle" us to death
like Chrysler tried to do back in the '80's (and it didn't work then
either). |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:44 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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Or anything else in the report LOL
mike hunt
« Paul » wrote:
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Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:47 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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And the engine that builds up oil sludge that ruins the
engine...oops that Toyota..
mike hunt
UserName wrote:
| Quote: |
"stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close with
all the other contenders....
You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten years that seem to
affect more engine sizes every year ? With no fix in sight yet ?
Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have no fix for but still
seem to be producing ? |
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Rick De Visser
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:15 pm Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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<snip>
| Quote: | this. Sad indeed! Plus GM seems to have hung on to pushrod engines
longer
than just about everyone else that migrated to DHOC engines as standard
lineups years ago. So, they seemed late to the game there (they seem to
be
coming on stronger now, but DOHC is usually a pricey option). Although, I
like pushrod engines. Regardless, the perception is that they're behind
the
competition, not in the forefront (real perception or not).
snip |
It is my understanding that GM maintained its pushrod format because it
allowed for the smallest size engine to produce a given HP. However, they
have moved on to OHC design because of the perceived lack of use of newer
technology/design related to pushrod engines.
rick |
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Jonathan Race
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:54 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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The benefits of a pushrod style engine include having only one camshaft
versus two (and sometimes four). That makes it cheaper and easier to work
on. Pushrod motors also can use longer lasting timing chains instead of
belts, the top end of the motor is smaller making for easier intake routing,
a lower profile, etc. Plus with newer variable valves, it's easier and
cheaper to fit that technology onto pushrods than onto an overhead cam. Of
any of the perceived problems with GM motors, pushrods have never been an
issue. The valve train will be heavier, but that's not much of an issue
because car motors aren't generating the ultra-high rpm's that something
like a motorcycle would where valve train mass and weight can have a direct
effect on a motor's performance at top speed. This is one of the reasons
why a Harley Davidson has pushrods (rev limiter set at 5200 rpm) where most
rice rockets rev to more than twice that number.
Cheers - Jonathan
--
Jonathan A. Race
Lieutenant, EMS Supervisor
Orange County (FL) Fire Rescue Department
(This message may contain personal opinions and/or information not related
to my employment or employer)
"Rick De Visser" <devisser@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:SqXzd.10708$nV.279116@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | snip
this. Sad indeed! Plus GM seems to have hung on to pushrod engines
longer
than just about everyone else that migrated to DHOC engines as standard
lineups years ago. So, they seemed late to the game there (they seem to
be
coming on stronger now, but DOHC is usually a pricey option). Although,
I
like pushrod engines. Regardless, the perception is that they're behind
the
competition, not in the forefront (real perception or not).
snip
It is my understanding that GM maintained its pushrod format because it
allowed for the smallest size engine to produce a given HP. However, they
have moved on to OHC design because of the perceived lack of use of newer
technology/design related to pushrod engines.
rick
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Waldo
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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UserName wrote:
| Quote: | "stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close with
all the other contenders....
You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten years that seem to
affect more engine sizes every year ? With no fix in sight yet ?
Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have no fix for but still
seem to be producing ?
Or, perhaps he means the windshield wipers that freeze below |
the rear of the hood
and it takes twenty minutes to free them up along with using
half a jug of
winshield washer fluid. |
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TroutFisherMan
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:40 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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Oh yea I forgot about the Lumina engine knocking when first cranked up
in the mornings.....Add that to my peeling paint due to defective cheap
primer ($2000)........intake manifold gasket leaking oil into coolant
system ($550)..........Gear shift cable lubricant hardening up in cold
weather freezing the shifter ($96).............Some sensor in the
exhaust system ($89)......and on, and on and on.........All within the
last 3 months..........One thing you can say "when they go they really
GO DOWN"
Check out the Consumers R------t Vehicle issue; those ratings for
toyota vehicles sure do look good compared to GM. Those quality grades
come from actual owners. I have submitted a couple of reports. Care
to guess on which one of my cars.
P.S.
chevy lumina will be my last GM car or truck. Burned my Equinox,
Envoy, Impala brochures; picked up Camry, Tacoma, 4Rummer, and
Highlanders. I am sick of my neighbors bragging on their infrequent
trips to the dealer for only regular scheduled maintenance. |
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Silver Surfer
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:53 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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Let me take a guess at why the GM wipers are designed as they are presently.
It probably has to do with aerodynamics. The wipers are tucked down out of
the way to help squeeze another decimal or so onto the fleet MPG figure as
mandated by our very own US government. A vacuum or electric operated cover
for the wipers would address your concern, but at a co$t.
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:KICdncC3VbYg8k7cRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
"Waldo" <waldo2@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:41D2F37D.9070101@nospam.ca...
UserName wrote:
"stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close
with
all the other contenders....
You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten years that
seem to affect more engine sizes every year ? With no fix in sight yet ?
Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have no fix for but
still seem to be producing ?
Or, perhaps he means the windshield wipers that freeze below the rear of
the hood
and it takes twenty minutes to free them up along with using half a jug
of
winshield washer fluid.
Yes, I've had that happen too...now that you mention it. Why do they
design them like that? I hated how hard it was to clear snow and ice away
from the wipers because they're imbedded in the "well" behind the hood and
you couldn't lift the wiper up and out of the way. I agree, that is
piss-poor design.
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:53 am Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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"Waldo" <waldo2@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:41D2F37D.9070101@nospam.ca...
| Quote: |
UserName wrote:
"stuart8181" <stuart8181@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:spGdnTaJH45hoFLcRVn-ow@adelphia.com...
GM is still the engineering leader of the auto world. Not even close with
all the other contenders....
You mean like the leaky intake gaskets of the past ten years that seem
to affect more engine sizes every year ? With no fix in sight yet ?
Or do you mean the knocking engines that they have no fix for but still
seem to be producing ?
Or, perhaps he means the windshield wipers that freeze below the rear of
the hood
and it takes twenty minutes to free them up along with using half a jug of
winshield washer fluid.
|
Yes, I've had that happen too...now that you mention it. Why do they design
them like that? I hated how hard it was to clear snow and ice away from the
wipers because they're imbedded in the "well" behind the hood and you
couldn't lift the wiper up and out of the way. I agree, that is piss-poor
design. |
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Mark
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:
Re: GM is still the undisputed Champion |
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"TroutFisherMan" <pantherfan704@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1104374414.040179.240920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Oh yea I forgot about the Lumina engine knocking when first cranked up
in the mornings.....Add that to my peeling paint due to defective cheap
primer ($2000)........intake manifold gasket leaking oil into coolant
system ($550)..........Gear shift cable lubricant hardening up in cold
weather freezing the shifter ($96).............Some sensor in the
exhaust system ($89)......and on, and on and on.........All within the
last 3 months..........One thing you can say "when they go they really
GO DOWN"
Check out the Consumers R------t Vehicle issue; those ratings for
toyota vehicles sure do look good compared to GM. Those quality grades
come from actual owners. I have submitted a couple of reports. Care
to guess on which one of my cars.
P.S.
chevy lumina will be my last GM car or truck. Burned my Equinox,
Envoy, Impala brochures; picked up Camry, Tacoma, 4Rummer, and
Highlanders. I am sick of my neighbors bragging on their infrequent
trips to the dealer for only regular scheduled maintenance.
How old is your Lumina? |
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