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server
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject:
Re-blackening tonneau cover |
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I have a heavy canvas tonneau cover that used to be black, but has
faded to grey. Does anyone know of any products to re-blacken it?
Preferably available in the UK, but otherwise that can be shipped
here.
There are also a few grease spots that I would like to remove first.
I'm sure I can find something for this, but any recommendations would
be good.
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Dodge-Him
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Re-blackening tonneau cover |
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Most auto glass places have a spray dye for interior vinyl that works
good. Most auto parts places carry it now but not sure of the names.
Dodgem |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:14:40 GMT, "Steve Richardson"
<stever_sl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I suspect the two pieces
are joined by simple compression fittings, and I'm not sure I want to risk
my life on them in a panic stop. My mechanic is in sunny Cancun for a week.
|
I am not at all comfortable with compression fittings in brake
systems. The proportioning valves in my old Volvo station wagon are
set to start blocking pressures higher than about 900 psi, so I figure
they figure the working pressure is going higher than that.
The 1965 Corvair and 1968 Plymouth factory manuals both specify steel
brake tubing and double, not single flared joints.
The factor between working pressure and basic faiure pressure is at
least 4X for hydraulic sysetems, ignoring fatigue effects. So, I
guess I all I have to do to test my repairs is push 4X harder on the
brakes than I think I really ever will.
------------------------------
These places suggest that even with various compression fittings the
tubing's pressure rating is the limit. I'm sticking with double
flares.
http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/boat_diy/compression_fitting.htm
http://www.mesteel.com/cgi-bin/w3-msql/goto.htm?url=http://www.steelmillsoftheworld.com/products/cs/dishedheads/pres_vessel.htm
http://www-training.llnl.gov/wbt/hc/PDFiles/AppendixD2.pdf
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Rabbit
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Re-blackening tonneau cover |
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| Quote: | I have a heavy canvas tonneau cover that used to be black, but has
faded to grey. Does anyone know of any products to re-blacken it?
Preferably available in the UK, but otherwise that can be shipped
here.
There are also a few grease spots that I would like to remove first.
I'm sure I can find something for this, but any recommendations would
be good.
|
Vinyl shops should carry dyes that you can use. However, my guess would be
that the grease spots will have to come out first for the product to work
properly.
Rabbit |
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Steve Richardson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@flycast.net> wrote in message
news:Mb6dnbq7ua97UuzcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Sears sells a double flaring tool, but I don't know if that's the one
you're looking at or not. Actually the flaring tool itself is the same
for single and double flares, but to make double flares you need the
little packet of adapters that starts the "bubble" on the end of the line.
It sounds confusing without having one in your hand to look at but once
you get one and read the directions all becomes clear.
|
Actually the Sears closest to me didn't have the flaring tool, so I drove
nearly 40 miles to another store and bought it there. I took it 40 miles
back home and then realized when I opened it that the "detailed
instructions" promised on the package were missing, and there were obvious
tool marks on the parts. So I took it 40 miles back to the store, which
didn't have any more in stock. I finally found another one at a different
Sears. Early this morning I tried my first double flare and failed
miserably. My second attempt was much better but still not quite right. As
soon as the parts stores open I'll be getting some more tubing and then I
can practice until I get the knack. I have the whole Dodge to do, then I
need to get a metric tool to do the Triumph. Fun times!
- S Richardson |
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Joe Way
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:01:55 -0400, djtcz@comcast.net wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:14:40 GMT, "Steve Richardson"
stever_sl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I suspect the two pieces
are joined by simple compression fittings, and I'm not sure I want to risk
my life on them in a panic stop. My mechanic is in sunny Cancun for a week.
I am not at all comfortable with compression fittings in brake
systems. The proportioning valves in my old Volvo station wagon are
set to start blocking pressures higher than about 900 psi, so I figure
they figure the working pressure is going higher than that.
Absolutely correct. Compression fittings are NOT designed to hold |
anything like that kind of pressure.
I did a pretty fast read through these links and could have missed
something, but I don't think you have come to a good conclusion about
their content. The first link does discuss compression fittings, but I
can't find anything in it that mentions the pressure rating of the
assembly. (Note that the context is propane gas systems, which operate
in the single digit pressure range.) The second and third links appear
to discuss the more sophisticated bite-type and coned fittings rather
than the ones that are commonly referred to as compression fittings.
I don't believe any manufacturer or (genuinely) knowledgeable brake
expert has ever recommended the use of compression fittings for brake
lines, and with good reason. They should never, ever be used in
automotive brake systems, and if found there should be removed and
replaced with proper double-flare fittings.
Joe
--
Heather & Joe Way
Sierra Specialty Automotive
Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
Gus Wilson Stories
http://www.brakecylinder.com |
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Leon Rowell
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
fittings. ie: ....."They should never, ever be used in automotive
brake systems, and if found there should be removed and replaced with
proper double-flare fittings." Thanks.
Leon Rowell
Joe Way wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:01:55 -0400, djtcz@comcast.net wrote:
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:14:40 GMT, "Steve Richardson"
stever_sl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I suspect the two pieces
are joined by simple compression fittings, and I'm not sure I want to risk
my life on them in a panic stop. My mechanic is in sunny Cancun for a week.
I am not at all comfortable with compression fittings in brake
systems. The proportioning valves in my old Volvo station wagon are
set to start blocking pressures higher than about 900 psi, so I figure
they figure the working pressure is going higher than that.
Absolutely correct. Compression fittings are NOT designed to hold
anything like that kind of pressure.
[snip]
------------------------------
These places suggest that even with various compression fittings the
tubing's pressure rating is the limit. I'm sticking with double
flares.
http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/boat_diy/compression_fitting.htm
http://www.mesteel.com/cgi-bin/w3-msql/goto.htm?url=http://www.steelmillsoftheworld.com/products/cs/dishedheads/pres_vessel.htm
http://www-training.llnl.gov/wbt/hc/PDFiles/AppendixD2.pdf
=========================
I did a pretty fast read through these links and could have missed
something, but I don't think you have come to a good conclusion about
their content. The first link does discuss compression fittings, but I
can't find anything in it that mentions the pressure rating of the
assembly. (Note that the context is propane gas systems, which operate
in the single digit pressure range.) The second and third links appear
to discuss the more sophisticated bite-type and coned fittings rather
than the ones that are commonly referred to as compression fittings.
I don't believe any manufacturer or (genuinely) knowledgeable brake
expert has ever recommended the use of compression fittings for brake
lines, and with good reason. They should never, ever be used in
automotive brake systems, and if found there should be removed and
replaced with proper double-flare fittings.
Joe |
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tom
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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the main reason compression fittings should never be used on brake lines is
that they are against the law, and if found in an inspection, the car will
be put out of service, and in most states impounded. |
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Robin Banks
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Almost lost my '58 Edsel yesterday... |
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On 17 Oct 2004 06:29:59 GMT, Barney <shany@despammed.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Surprising in that case that they stay in business.
|
Not really. They're on a major line where the suburbanites go to/from work,
and they're also located in a fairly "yuppified" town. I'm sure they can scam
the soccer moms and harried white collar trade all day long.
But... they were also recommended by a classic owner, and they've had plenty
of other classic clients here and there, so I figured OK, they nick the gentry
on their Minivan tune here and there, and take care of the classic owners.
Apperently, they nick everyone other than the friend that referred me to them.
(And he can't say sorry enough.. I had to tell him "It's ok... they did it,
not you".)
| Quote: | They say a sucker is born every minute but not so in small communities.
|
Nah, in a small town, word gets around, and you're sunk. If there's no
competition, then perhaps you can hang on longer jacking people around, but
sooner or later I'll catch up with you.
~~R.Banks |
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Joe Way
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:19:13 -0500, Leon Rowell <leon429@netins.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
fittings. ie: ....."They should never, ever be used in automotive
brake systems, and if found there should be removed and replaced with
proper double-flare fittings." Thanks.
Leon Rowell
=========================== |
Well...in this context, *I* am a source. Check my .sig.
In addition, there have already been and likely will be more responses
indicating that several states actually have laws proscribing their
use.
Better yet, let's look at the specs for the typical compression
fittings as sold in auto parts stores and hardware stores. Industrial
supplier McMaster-Carr has them in their catalog on pages 121-122.
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and enter 121 in the FIND box.
Toward the bottom of page 121 the specs are listed. Note that the
highest pressure rating for standard fittings is 400psi, for the
smallest sizes, and that the pressure rating decreases as the tube
size increases. Automotive brake systems typically see 600-1200psi in
normal operation depending on pedal and hydraulic ratios and whether
they are manual or power brakes. Also note that the fittings are
listed as appropriate for " PVC, polyethylene, polypropylene, and
nylon with a durometer of A70 and higher; copper; aluminum; and brass"
but not for steel.
Lastly, I will repeat the part of my paragraph that you snipped....
"I don't believe any manufacturer or (genuinely) knowledgeable brake
expert has ever recommended the use of compression fittings for brake
lines, and with good reason..."
and challenge you to find such a recommendation for the use of
standard hardware/auto parts store compression fittings.
Joe
--
Heather & Joe Way
Sierra Specialty Automotive
Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
Gus Wilson Stories
http://www.brakecylinder.com |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:03 am Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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|
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:03:38 -0700, Joe Way <joe@brakecylinder.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:19:13 -0500, Leon Rowell <leon429@netins.net
wrote:
Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
[snip]
===========================
Well...in this context, *I* am a source. Check my .sig.
|
Joe, I've seen enough of your posts to agree that you're a source. In
academia, we'd refer to you as a recognized authority.
I'm sure it's only marginally relevant that I've seen what you said
numerous places over the last thirty years. I hadn't done enough
thought to realize that the pressure is the issue.
Have a good one. |
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Leon Rowell
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:22 am Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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|
Sources?......
Leon Rowell
tom wrote:
| Quote: | the main reason compression fittings should never be used on brake lines is
that they are against the law, and if found in an inspection, the car will
be put out of service, and in most states impounded.
"Leon Rowell" <leon429@netins.net> wrote in message
news:41728D71.40402@netins.net...
Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
fittings. ie: ....."They should never, ever be used in automotive
brake systems, and if found there should be removed and replaced with
proper double-flare fittings." Thanks.
Leon Rowell
Joe Way wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:01:55 -0400, djtcz@comcast.net wrote:
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:14:40 GMT, "Steve Richardson"
stever_sl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I suspect the two pieces
are joined by simple compression fittings, and I'm not sure I want to
risk
my life on them in a panic stop. My mechanic is in sunny Cancun for a
week.
I am not at all comfortable with compression fittings in brake
systems. The proportioning valves in my old Volvo station wagon are
set to start blocking pressures higher than about 900 psi, so I figure
they figure the working pressure is going higher than that.
Absolutely correct. Compression fittings are NOT designed to hold
anything like that kind of pressure.
[snip]
------------------------------
These places suggest that even with various compression fittings the
tubing's pressure rating is the limit. I'm sticking with double
flares.
http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/boat_diy/compression_fitting.htm
http://www.mesteel.com/cgi-bin/w3-msql/goto.htm?url=http://www.steelmillso
ftheworld.com/products/cs/dishedheads/pres_vessel.htm
http://www-training.llnl.gov/wbt/hc/PDFiles/AppendixD2.pdf
=========================
I did a pretty fast read through these links and could have missed
something, but I don't think you have come to a good conclusion about
their content. The first link does discuss compression fittings, but I
can't find anything in it that mentions the pressure rating of the
assembly. (Note that the context is propane gas systems, which operate
in the single digit pressure range.) The second and third links appear
to discuss the more sophisticated bite-type and coned fittings rather
than the ones that are commonly referred to as compression fittings.
I don't believe any manufacturer or (genuinely) knowledgeable brake
expert has ever recommended the use of compression fittings for brake
lines, and with good reason. They should never, ever be used in
automotive brake systems, and if found there should be removed and
replaced with proper double-flare fittings.
Joe
|
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tranch728
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:31 am Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
|
|
"Leon Rowell" <leon429@netins.net> wrote in message
news:41728D71.40402@netins.net...
| Quote: | Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
fittings. ie: ....."They should never, ever be used in automotive
brake systems, and if found there should be removed and replaced with
proper double-flare fittings." Thanks.
Leon Rowell
|
Why is it there is ALWAYS someone that just HAS to say they don't
believe something unless they can see it written somewhere else?! If you'd
been following the thread you'd have seen SEVERAL people said use double
flares. PROVE what you're saying? Don't bother to believe what Joe or any of
the others are telling you. Go ahead and use compression fittings on your
brake lines. Just do us all one BIG favor. Increase your insurance coverage
because the first time you have to hammer those brakes in an emergency and
the brake line pressure goes up to somewhere around 1200 - 1500 psi and your
compression fittings are rated for ONLY 400 - 500 psi you'll finally get
your SOURCE why you shouldn't have used them. |
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Leon Rowell
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:40 am Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
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|
Joe,
I'm not the one who made the statement.... I just asked you for your
sources. I can tell you from first hand experience that they work,
whether you think they're right or wrong. I have had a compression
union on one of my cars for over two years now and have had no
problems with it, and yes, I have made a couple of panic stops. Hard
to argue with that.
Leon Rowell
Joe Way wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:19:13 -0500, Leon Rowell <leon429@netins.net
wrote:
Joe,
Please site the sources to back up your claims of compression
fittings. ie: ....."They should never, ever be used in automotive
brake systems, and if found there should be removed and replaced with
proper double-flare fittings." Thanks.
Leon Rowell
===========================
Well...in this context, *I* am a source. Check my .sig.
In addition, there have already been and likely will be more responses
indicating that several states actually have laws proscribing their
use.
Better yet, let's look at the specs for the typical compression
fittings as sold in auto parts stores and hardware stores. Industrial
supplier McMaster-Carr has them in their catalog on pages 121-122.
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and enter 121 in the FIND box.
Toward the bottom of page 121 the specs are listed. Note that the
highest pressure rating for standard fittings is 400psi, for the
smallest sizes, and that the pressure rating decreases as the tube
size increases. Automotive brake systems typically see 600-1200psi in
normal operation depending on pedal and hydraulic ratios and whether
they are manual or power brakes. Also note that the fittings are
listed as appropriate for " PVC, polyethylene, polypropylene, and
nylon with a durometer of A70 and higher; copper; aluminum; and brass"
but not for steel.
Lastly, I will repeat the part of my paragraph that you snipped....
"I don't believe any manufacturer or (genuinely) knowledgeable brake
expert has ever recommended the use of compression fittings for brake
lines, and with good reason..."
and challenge you to find such a recommendation for the use of
standard hardware/auto parts store compression fittings.
Joe |
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| Back to top |
|
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Robin Banks
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:49 am Post subject:
Re: Brake line repair? |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:03:38 -0700, Joe Way <joe@brakecylinder.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Sierra Specialty Automotive
Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
|
Interesting. Being soft, wouldn't brass wear faster? I'm no brake expert, so
this is a serious question.
Also, "why brass"? What are the advantages over conventionally lined sleeves?
~~R.Banks |
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