| Author |
Message |
Built_Well
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:38 am Post subject:
The Dealership dance |
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Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
$18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
away. The locals want $18,900.
All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
Is it really true they're not making any money? I
can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
just as long before breaking down, I hope?
Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
much.
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Ray O
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:54 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.09.19.28.35.152.2888@bbbb.com...
| Quote: | Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
$18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
away. The locals want $18,900.
All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
Is it really true they're not making any money? I
can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
|
Dealerships are not meant to be a non-profit organization and they do not
sell at a loss. All other things being equal, a dealership with a lower
overhead can sell for less markup than one with a high overhead, and one
that sells more volume can sell for less markup than one that sell at a
lower volume becuase certain costs are fairly constant.
| Quote: |
The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
them?
|
If purchase price is your sole determing factor, then you should purchase
from the dealer with the lowest cost. If you factor in customer service,
reputation, and convenience, then the answer is not as clear.
The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
| Quote: | be identical to the other dealerships, won't it?
|
Yes.
And last
| Quote: | just as long before breaking down, I hope?
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Yes.
| Quote: |
Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
much.
-- |
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:55 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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I found that despite all the hoopla about using the various
internet/fax/phone methods for buying a car that, at least for me,
nothing beat actually going into the dealership and walking out when
they refuse to hit your price.
It's funny, but when I was searching for my Camry LE (four-speed), all
dealerships, except one quoted ME $18,200 -- and that was taking into
account the $1,000 rebate that Toyota was offering at the time....so
the "real" selling price was $19,200. I did several combos of e-mail,
phone and fax contacts, depending on the dealers, ranging from a number
of people who have various titles such as "internet sales manager,"
fleet sales manager, etc.
I finally went into my two local dealerships IN PERSON, both within 20
miles, told them I would pay no more than $17,400 BEFORE rebate. They
both flatly refused, but when I got home later that day, I had messages
on my answering from both dealers agreeing to my price....
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Rob B
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:20 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.09.19.28.35.152.2888@bbbb.com...
| Quote: |
Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
$18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
|
did those prices include the factory to customer rebate ?
watch out for stealing your rebate, funny dealers give you a sell price
quote (minus the factory to customer rebate) so that it makes their quote
look like great offer
so the 18,200 is **everything** but Tax/Tag/Title ?
too bad you can not find a new '05 with the $1500 rebate
| Quote: |
Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
away. The locals want $18,900.
All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
|
Not surprised, sales people know you are shopping around but they do not
want it thrown in their face? that is they want you to be adversary not
compete with some other sales person.
| Quote: |
Is it really true they're not making any money? I
can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
|
If it is a real quote then dealer is benefiting somehow , making money,
meeting quota, moving stock not at loss etc
| Quote: |
The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
just as long before breaking down, I hope?
sounds like another volume discount situation so sounds plausible. The sales |
manager at dealer i purchased from over internet/phone said that 85% of
there business was pre-sold vehicles, they were volume as well.
YMMV but
I was once burned by a similar deal (when i was younger and more naieve) a
dealer about 40 min drive from me gave a good quote over the phone and faxed
it to me. when i drove out they said sorry that car has been purchased can
we interest you in this one (of course for a little bit more). so avoid this
however one does this. 100 miles is a bit of a hike.
| Quote: |
Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
much.
|
www.carbuyersecret.com to calculate a fair offer.
(toyota have %2 holdback and $500 factory-dealer incentive)
www.carsdirect.com to get an idea of what a car buying agent can buy same
car for then subtract the middle-man fee (%5-7) to get a ball park
negotiated price, my first pass at buying '05 highlander carsdirect could
get about $200 better than me so i knew my quotes were at least $1200 more
than i should expect
I just went through this with a '06 highlander
Internet/phone shopping is way i purchased but mainly because i was tired of
the run around with dealership games, that is trying to steal your time. The
free quotes through Edmunds and others was a joke about 1 to 4 callback
successes. I visited closest dealer's websites and sent a e-mail direct,
said i wanted a car with these options send me quote, i have time frame 2
weeks (that gave best response)
Nothing beats the negotiation power of walking out of dealership when they
do not want to deal *BUT* (the big but) one needs to have a real figure
when you negotiate with your feet. If it is a bogus low ball and you walk,
you likely become the joke of the day, if it is a real offer and you walk
that is negotiation.
Depends on your preferences i suppose.
HTH |
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Built_Well
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
the doc fee.
I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
$18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone
that they weren't making any money selling the
'06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.
I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships
didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't
match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.
I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think
it's a good price because
CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also
has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.
CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's
important to choose the right CarMax because it looks
like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive
than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).
Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices
lower than the other. |
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Pszemol
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:36 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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After I read your post I went to carmax.com to check what is available
in Chicago area and I found something strange: several camry LE
cars, same model number prices with different price 18,338-19167.
All of them seem to list THE SAME optional equipment (cars with
sunroof listed for much more). What would be the reason for the
different price ? Is this just different color ? |
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ll
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:44 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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Built_Well wrote:
| Quote: | Is it really true they're not making any money?
I can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
|
What does kbb.com say the invoice price is for your configuration?
Make the dealers break down their prices (details!) so you can
see how they arrive at the bottom line. This way, for example,
there's no doubt about what's happening with any rebates.
And they can't surprise/trick you later by saying that a certain
cost was not included in their earlier quote.
Ray O wrote:
| Quote: | If you factor in customer service, reputation, and convenience,
then the answer is not as clear.
|
On a purchase transaction of a vehicle (not maintenance/service
of the vehicle), why are these important? There's a bottom line,
drive out price.
(I agree they're important for maintenance/service.) |
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Alex
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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Gee guy, 18.2 to 18.8, that's not much play. Let's keep it simple. Do you
need a car today? A certain color? Are you patient and like to shop? Get
a price from at least two buying services, and not too far from home.
When you call, have you considered asking for the fleet rep and see what
they can do? You tie up a retail sales guy or gal, and they need their
piece of the action. Don't assume a phone call will be accurate. Business
happens face to face.
Got my hard to find truck at Capital Toyota Salem, Or in July 04. Toyota
Los Angeles zone had zero and were getting zero. Found one at Toyota San
Francisco, gave a $1000 deposit and was ready to buy. Go to get the car,
and the price increased $1000. Toyota of downtown San Francisco was real
sorry and gave me my deposit back. I was not mad. I did not get excited.
I know the game. I made my move (deposit), and had to wait for their next
counter move (price increase). My next move was to buy or keep looking.
When you have a phone or two, a notebook with wireless, maybe a portable
printer, but most of all TIME, you take your money back and start dialing.
Extras: I wanted the factory alarm. Got bids from $300 to $1000, and yes I
have auto door locks. Capital Toyota was the highest, and why not. It
would have been convenient.
You can save a bit if you are willing to do your homework, and are willing
and able to travel. But the more you ask for, the better the dealer can get
that extra $500 out of you. Dealers play this game every day, and you
don't. Your odds of winning are slim. Even if you are extra careful, one
drop of the guard, and they get that little extra. It's their job. It's
how they feed their family.
So, how bad do you want to play?
"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.10.12.35.40.212.3237@bbbb.com...
| Quote: | The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
the doc fee.
I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
$18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:36 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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I'll say $17,400 is about right with the hidden rebates and the drive
for market share and new 07's coming out, the current generation of
Camrys is pretty cheap these days. |
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Wolfgang
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:33 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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Current factory rebate in Northern VA is $750 -- are the different in
different regions? Local Dealer has '06 LE for 18,400 with side air
curtains (plus $199 processing).
"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.09.19.28.35.152.2888@bbbb.com...
| Quote: | Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
$18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
away. The locals want $18,900.
All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
Is it really true they're not making any money? I
can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
just as long before breaking down, I hope?
Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
much. |
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Rob B
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:48 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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"Built_Well" <bw@bbbb.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.10.12.35.40.212.3237@bbbb.com...
| Quote: | The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
the doc fee.
|
so seems the doc fee wiped canceled the rebate and you are back at near
invoice
in my area rebate is $750 for '06 and $1500 for '05
| Quote: |
I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
$18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone
that they weren't making any money selling the
'06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.
I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships
didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't
match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.
|
well according to car buyers secret 18,200 provides dealer around %5 profit
margin which is a fair deal as they need to make money and they they usually
minimally operate around %2-3 which would come out to about 17,900 so a
pretty good fair deal
the actual cost to dealer for the car is about 17,384 maybe less
| Quote: |
I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think
it's a good price because
CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also
has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.
CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's
important to choose the right CarMax because it looks
like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive
than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).
Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices
lower than the other.
|
good luck with car |
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Pszemol
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:01 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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"Wolfgang" <NOwolfgang_dieterSPAM@cox.net> wrote in message news:%lLmf.29125$ih5.19838@dukeread11...
| Quote: | Current factory rebate in Northern VA is $750 -- are the different in
different regions? Local Dealer has '06 LE for 18,400 with side air
curtains (plus $199 processing).
|
Processing of what ? :-) |
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Built_Well
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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Rob B. wrote:
| Quote: |
in my area rebate is $750 for '06 and $1500 for '05
|
Thank you for all your helpful advice.
In my Toyota non-distributorship region, Edmunds.com
shows only a $500 rebate on the '06 Camry and no
rebate on the '05 Camry. |
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Scott in Florida
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:31 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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On 11 Dec 2005 09:41:27 -0800, "Learning Richard"
<learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | forced the Virginia Republican delegates
to RAISE TAXES.
|
ROFLMAO....now that is an accomplishment...
brag about raising taxes.....
Only an idiotic Democrat would come up with that!!!!!
--
Scott in Florida |
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Bruce L. Bergman
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:16 am Post subject:
Re: The Dealership dance |
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On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:14:53 -0800, ravelation@webtv.net (ravelation)
wrote:
| Quote: | lkslittle@REMOVEcomcastTHIS.net (ll) wrote:
What does kbb.com say the invoice price
is for your configuration? Make the
dealers break down their prices
(details!) so you can see how they arrive
at the bottom line.
Reading this strikes me that the auto industry is one of a few, if not
the only, business that has to show how they arrive at a price. Can you
imagine Best Buy breaking down their price on a Maytag washer dryer
combo? Or Mickey D's telling you how they arrived at their price for a
Big Mac?
Are there any other businesses that have to show a breakdown of how
their pricing works?
|
Are there any other businesses that will use any tactic (whether
legal or not) to extract as much money as possible out of each and
every transaction? And the salesman gets to keep a large chunk of
that money as added commission or bonus?
McDonalds knows the exact ingredients and quantities of ingredients
that are /supposed/ to be in a Big Mac, and can crunch the cost of
making it to the penny. Where the variables come in is how much the
franchisee is paying for supplies, labor, rent and utilities, and how
much he wants left over for that ski vacation. But that fixed final
price is right up there on the menu boards so you can compare.
I've seen restaurants a few blocks apart charging 50c to $1 more or
less than the competition for the same meal - which is why I go to the
Wendy's near my house where Ron D. Ross owns (and personally operates)
three stores and keeps the prices down...
Rather than the other local outlets owned by mega-conglomerates
(IIRC ours are run by Cambridge Foodservice Corp.) where they own
hundreds of stores and have to support corporate and regional offices
and staff - that will cost another $1 to $1.50 out the door for lunch.
A buck here, a buck there, suddenly you're talking serious money.
Best Buy sells certain Maytag models, they are all built the same.
You pay one price for a certain model washing machine, a bit more if
you want a special color, and they are easy to price compare because
every dealer in the county has the exact same model number. No
playing with options, the price variations are again from shipping,
local overhead, and how much profit they want to clear per unit - but
that's a fixed percentage that all customers pay equally.
Cars are all slightly different, so to arrive at an honest wholesale
price you have to get the prices of the options and add them all up.
Then you have hidden kickbacks for Flooring, Leasing and Financing,
the profit from Packs, faked up stuff like "Title and Documentation
Fees" where they take the DMV fee and double it for the secretarial
overhead.... Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
When there's that much room for fraud, yes, you want them to spell
it out how they arrived at the price. I don't begrudge their making
money, they have to turn a profit or go out of business - I just don't
want them earning all of it from me.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net. |
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