| Author |
Message |
Backyard Mechanic
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still
liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the
door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally
dead,
but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it
charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said,
just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low
on liquid.
How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen?
From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!!
But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right.
I agree......
Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.
No thanks.
This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a
2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart
battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less.
|
Heh... the opposite of my experience.
| Quote: | Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery.
|
No problem with that.
--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bob Urz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still
liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the
door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead,
but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it
charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said,
just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low
on liquid.
How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen?
From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!!
But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right.
I agree......
Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.
No thanks.
This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a
2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart
battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was
lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration.
Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty,
and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and
still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10
years. Walmart batteries are junk.
Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery.
Mark
|
There is a short list of battery manufacturers that make MOST of the
automotive batteries in the US. Exide and Johnson controls make
most of them. So the popular names you see out there may actually
be made by a OEM and private labeled. I have found a Korean company
makes some wallmart batteries.
http://www.delkor.com/
Here is a link on batteries:
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/batbrand.htm
http://www.pacificpowerbatteries.com/aboutbatts/Car%20Battery%20FAQ/carfaq7.html
Bob
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Bailin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
<maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:vfaip15079fibg5b01phbgt98jjqbrg8vs@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:58:02 GMT, "Jim Warman"
mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote:
Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to
happen.
In a discharged cell, the electrolyte is about as close to water as it's
going to get. The also permeates the plates in the battery. When water
freezes, it crystallizes and expands.... this is going to damage the
plates
(which are much like sponges but not flexible).
FWIW.... the ice will melt eventually.... much more quickly if the
battery
is in a warm place while it is being charged. It may even offer a period
of
useful service.
So... now the question becomes one regarding your expectations. If you
opt
to keep the battery in service, we can be sure that it's going to fail at
some time soon. If the inconvenience is no big deal, you can delay the
purchase of a replacement. I, personally, have neither patience nor time
for
unscheduled problems and would much rather address them at my convenience
rather than have my loving bride stranded along side a cold, winter
highway.
Bottom line... some guys have had good luck with frozen batteries... some
guys haven't...
I undstand what you are saying, and I noticed the battery was bulging
on the sides, so I am sure the plates were damaged some. I took it
off the charger and brought it in the house to thaw. It's back in the
garage now, being charged (I wont do it in the house). I'll see if it
works now. This is just a farm truck, so it's not real critical, but
I do take it out in the field and on short road trips, so I do plan to
get a new battery, cuz like you said, I dont care to break down in the
cold. But at this point I just want to see if it still works. I have
another junker battery to use for a "core". That one is totally shot.
I'll keep this one for a spare for the tractors if it still holds a
charge.
There is one thing I have never understood about batteries. Why does
the water in a charged battery not freeze? It's still water.....
What does charging do to a battery that prevents the freezing? I just
dont understand that concept. Obviously it's not the acid, because
the acid is till in an uncharged battery.
|
Actually, the liquid in a charged battery *is* a sulphuric acid solution.
In a fully charged battery, it's a strong solution. As the battery
discharges,
the acid solution becomes weaker and weaker, approaching that of
water. This is how a hygrometer is able to measure the condition of
a battery. Sulphuric acid is denser than plain water, so the float level
changes according to the battery charge.
The chemical reaction in a battery converts lead + sulphuric acid into
lead sulphate + water. Charging a battery reverses this process, just
as long as the process hasn't progressed too far and you have an
unchargeable 'sulphated' battery.
| Quote: | The other thing, is why dont they use some sort of antifreeze instead
of water in them? Batteries do get drained in cold weather, and then
they will freeze if left unattended. Even a brand new battery can get
drained if (for example) someone gets stuck in a snow bank and needs
to leave their headlights on to dig themselves out, or someone had
engine problems and keeps cranking till the battery is dead. These
things do happen, which means the next thing, while the car is still
alongside the road, or in the parking lot at the repair shop, the
battery will freeze in winter. So, the age of the battery dont really
matter. It just seems using antifreeze would save alot of needlessly
ruined batteries in cold climates.
|
There's "dead" (battery below 10 volts and unable to crank the starter)
and then there's "really dead" (sulphated). A dead, partially discharged
battery still has a strong enough acid solution to prevent freezing.
| Quote: |
Thanks for your help
Mark
|
Bob
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:17:52 GMT, "Bob Bailin"
<72027.3605@compuserve.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:vfaip15079fibg5b01phbgt98jjqbrg8vs@4ax.com...
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:58:02 GMT, "Jim Warman"
mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote:
Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to
happen.
In a discharged cell, the electrolyte is about as close to water as it's
going to get. The also permeates the plates in the battery. When water
freezes, it crystallizes and expands.... this is going to damage the
plates
(which are much like sponges but not flexible).
FWIW.... the ice will melt eventually.... much more quickly if the
battery
is in a warm place while it is being charged. It may even offer a period
of
useful service.
So... now the question becomes one regarding your expectations. If you
opt
to keep the battery in service, we can be sure that it's going to fail at
some time soon. If the inconvenience is no big deal, you can delay the
purchase of a replacement. I, personally, have neither patience nor time
for
unscheduled problems and would much rather address them at my convenience
rather than have my loving bride stranded along side a cold, winter
highway.
Bottom line... some guys have had good luck with frozen batteries... some
guys haven't...
I undstand what you are saying, and I noticed the battery was bulging
on the sides, so I am sure the plates were damaged some. I took it
off the charger and brought it in the house to thaw. It's back in the
garage now, being charged (I wont do it in the house). I'll see if it
works now. This is just a farm truck, so it's not real critical, but
I do take it out in the field and on short road trips, so I do plan to
get a new battery, cuz like you said, I dont care to break down in the
cold. But at this point I just want to see if it still works. I have
another junker battery to use for a "core". That one is totally shot.
I'll keep this one for a spare for the tractors if it still holds a
charge.
There is one thing I have never understood about batteries. Why does
the water in a charged battery not freeze? It's still water.....
What does charging do to a battery that prevents the freezing? I just
dont understand that concept. Obviously it's not the acid, because
the acid is till in an uncharged battery.
Actually, the liquid in a charged battery *is* a sulphuric acid solution.
In a fully charged battery, it's a strong solution. As the battery
discharges,
the acid solution becomes weaker and weaker, approaching that of
water. This is how a hygrometer is able to measure the condition of
a battery. Sulphuric acid is denser than plain water, so the float level
changes according to the battery charge.
The chemical reaction in a battery converts lead + sulphuric acid into
lead sulphate + water. Charging a battery reverses this process, just
as long as the process hasn't progressed too far and you have an
unchargeable 'sulphated' battery.
The other thing, is why dont they use some sort of antifreeze instead
of water in them? Batteries do get drained in cold weather, and then
they will freeze if left unattended. Even a brand new battery can get
drained if (for example) someone gets stuck in a snow bank and needs
to leave their headlights on to dig themselves out, or someone had
engine problems and keeps cranking till the battery is dead. These
things do happen, which means the next thing, while the car is still
alongside the road, or in the parking lot at the repair shop, the
battery will freeze in winter. So, the age of the battery dont really
matter. It just seems using antifreeze would save alot of needlessly
ruined batteries in cold climates.
There's "dead" (battery below 10 volts and unable to crank the starter)
and then there's "really dead" (sulphated). A dead, partially discharged
battery still has a strong enough acid solution to prevent freezing.
Thanks for your help
Mark
Bob
|
Thanks Bob
I learned something new from your reply, and also know how a
hygrometer works too.
THANK YOU !
Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oscar_Lives
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
<maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:nk9ip19hp4av32pu5jeqp9q2ee6365k7fv@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still
liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the
door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead,
but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it
charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said,
just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low
on liquid.
How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen?
From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!!
But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right.
I agree......
Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.
No thanks.
This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a
2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart
battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was
lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration.
Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty,
and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and
still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10
years. Walmart batteries are junk.
Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery.
Mark
|
You got a Wal-Mart battery with only a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY???
The cheapest, lowest cost ones they sell here have 60-month warranties.
What the hell did you buy? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharon K.Cooke
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
Oscar_Lives wrote:
| Quote: |
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:nk9ip19hp4av32pu5jeqp9q2ee6365k7fv@4ax.com...
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still
liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the
door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead,
but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it
charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said,
just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low
on liquid.
How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen?
From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!!
But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right.
I agree......
Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.
No thanks.
This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a
2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart
battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was
lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration.
Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty,
and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and
still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10
years. Walmart batteries are junk.
Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery.
Mark
You got a Wal-Mart battery with only a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY???
The cheapest, lowest cost ones they sell here have 60-month warranties.
What the hell did you buy?
|
I wonder about that also, having used nothing but Wal-Mart batteries for the
past 20 years, all (maybe 8) of the batteries in about 6 different vehicles. The
one in my little truck went 9 years, and replaced it just 3 years ago as a PM
thing, since it was still holding a charge. Wal-Mart's batteries (the
"high-priced" $60 ones anyway) are made by Johnson Controls (Energizer, Optima),
and they certainly know how to make a battery. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric G
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:27 am Post subject:
Re: Battery Frozen |
|
|
Maybe proof that one gets what one pays for.......
--
ERIC GIRONDA
"Sharon K.Cooke" <scooke@cox.net> wrote in message news:439B16F1.BEB6372C@cox.net...
Oscar_Lives wrote:
| Quote: |
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:nk9ip19hp4av32pu5jeqp9q2ee6365k7fv@4ax.com...
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still
liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the
door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead,
but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it
charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said,
just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low
on liquid.
How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen?
From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!!
But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right.
I agree......
Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.
No thanks.
This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a
2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart
battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was
lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration.
Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty,
and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and
still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10
years. Walmart batteries are junk.
Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery.
Mark
You got a Wal-Mart battery with only a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY???
The cheapest, lowest cost ones they sell here have 60-month warranties.
What the hell did you buy?
|
I wonder about that also, having used nothing but Wal-Mart batteries for the
past 20 years, all (maybe 8) of the batteries in about 6 different vehicles. The
one in my little truck went 9 years, and replaced it just 3 years ago as a PM
thing, since it was still holding a charge. Wal-Mart's batteries (the
"high-priced" $60 ones anyway) are made by Johnson Controls (Energizer, Optima),
and they certainly know how to make a battery. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in