| Author |
Message |
Dean Dark
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:16 am Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:11:40 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
<Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:58:50 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
Made by the same company that made the O rings on the shuttle that
blew up?
If they're so great, why are they falling apart like cheap Chinese
Shite on this guy's vehicle? eh?
That's two *continentals* in a row that self-destructed in no time on
this guy's car. PREMATURE belt failure. I've never known a Gates I
couldn't run over with a Caterpillar earth mover that wouldn't still
work.
Oh, come ON! The space shuttle was a shitteaux design. Wouldnt have
made any difference who made the o-rings on that doomed piece of shit.
WAS a shitteaux design? They're still flying the thing ya know.
|
No they're not. Please do try to keep up.
--
Dan.
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Lawrence Glickman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:27 am Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:16:53 -0500, Dean Dark
<ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:11:40 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:58:50 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
Made by the same company that made the O rings on the shuttle that
blew up?
If they're so great, why are they falling apart like cheap Chinese
Shite on this guy's vehicle? eh?
That's two *continentals* in a row that self-destructed in no time on
this guy's car. PREMATURE belt failure. I've never known a Gates I
couldn't run over with a Caterpillar earth mover that wouldn't still
work.
Oh, come ON! The space shuttle was a shitteaux design. Wouldnt have
made any difference who made the o-rings on that doomed piece of shit.
WAS a shitteaux design? They're still flying the thing ya know.
No they're not. Please do try to keep up.
|
Yeah they are. Next launch is scheduled for March 2006 IIRC.
Please do try to keep up. |
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Dean Dark
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:41 am Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:27:39 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
<Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:16:53 -0500, Dean Dark
ddrake@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:11:40 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:58:50 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
Made by the same company that made the O rings on the shuttle that
blew up?
If they're so great, why are they falling apart like cheap Chinese
Shite on this guy's vehicle? eh?
That's two *continentals* in a row that self-destructed in no time on
this guy's car. PREMATURE belt failure. I've never known a Gates I
couldn't run over with a Caterpillar earth mover that wouldn't still
work.
Oh, come ON! The space shuttle was a shitteaux design. Wouldnt have
made any difference who made the o-rings on that doomed piece of shit.
WAS a shitteaux design? They're still flying the thing ya know.
No they're not. Please do try to keep up.
Yeah they are. Next launch is scheduled for March 2006 IIRC.
Please do try to keep up.
|
And for how long has it been grounded? What's your definition of
"still flying?" <snork>
It's the Russians who have been going back and forth to the space
station thingy for the past 2 or 3 years.
Please read a newspaper now and again, there's a good chap. It might
help you to keep up. HTH. HAND, and all that.
--
Dan.
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Sam Nickaby
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:13 am Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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"sdlomi2" <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kmJlf.618$ES.232@fe05.lga...
| Quote: | "Sam Nickaby" <Samhasnoemail@no.no.com> wrote in message> news:_0zlf.26977$dO2.
I've been having trouble with premature belt failure for a while and can't
figure this out. <snip
Sam, I'd look closely at each pulley surface, including idlers.
Sometimes they wear at an angle towards the center, rather than flat across
the original surface--supercharged Buicks have been esp. troublesome in my
experience. The idlers have also worn with grooves from who-knows-where ?
These grooved pulleys then wear grooves into the belts. HTH, s
|
Thanks all. Based on the advices, I'll change the idler bearings tomorrow.
My measurements came out with a full play of 0.04 inch at the top edge
of the idler wheel. If I had a German service manual I'd check this number
but the best manual I have is Bentley which is almost too basic and nearly
useless. Here's more info on the belt issue:
68k miles 5ft-year... = car bought
76k miles 8th year.. = 2" sections of belt chipped
80k miles 9th year ..= all sections of belt splits, some chip, brand Continental
87k miles 10th year = 1" sections of belt chip, brand Continental
87k 10th year .........= will try to replace idler bearing.
If the effects of the environment is cracking the ribbed part of the Continental
belt, which becomes visible only after two weeks of installation, should
there be a preventative maintenance done yearly?
Thanks |
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Lawrence Glickman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:54:32 GMT, "Sam Nickaby"
<Samhasnoemail@no.no.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "sdlomi2" <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kmJlf.618$ES.232@fe05.lga...
"Sam Nickaby" <Samhasnoemail@no.no.com> wrote in message> news:_0zlf.26977$dO2.
I've been having trouble with premature belt failure for a while and can't
figure this out. <snip
Sam, I'd look closely at each pulley surface, including idlers.
Sometimes they wear at an angle towards the center, rather than flat across
the original surface--supercharged Buicks have been esp. troublesome in my
experience. The idlers have also worn with grooves from who-knows-where ?
These grooved pulleys then wear grooves into the belts. HTH, s
Thanks all. Based on the advices, I'll change the idler bearings tomorrow.
My measurements came out with a full play of 0.04 inch at the top edge
of the idler wheel. If I had a German service manual I'd check this number
but the best manual I have is Bentley which is almost too basic and nearly
useless. Here's more info on the belt issue:
68k miles 5ft-year... = car bought
76k miles 8th year.. = 2" sections of belt chipped
80k miles 9th year ..= all sections of belt splits, some chip, brand Continental
87k miles 10th year = 1" sections of belt chip, brand Continental
87k 10th year .........= will try to replace idler bearing.
If the effects of the environment is cracking the ribbed part of the Continental
belt, which becomes visible only after two weeks of installation, should
there be a preventative maintenance done yearly?
Thanks
|
Sam,
Unless this car is designed as a Mars Rover or is going to operate in
a Venutian Atomosphere of ammonia, there is zero maintenance that
should need to be done to a serpentine belt. Ever.
If you find bearings/pulleys that put uneven stress across the belt,
laterally, this could lead to early fatigue of the belt. IOW, the
pulleys/idlers _really_ need to be plane-parallel to eachother.
Lg |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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In article <1134057220.581074.77140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
N8N <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | It has been years since I've owned a Bimmer but I would think that a
4-cyl. would be far more likely to have a harmonic balancer than a 6,
because of the 6-cyl. engine's better inherent balance.
|
Sixes also have a harmonic balancer.
--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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|
In article <3vr440F17bfr5U1@individual.net>,
Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | It has been years since I've owned a Bimmer but I would think that a
4-cyl. would be far more likely to have a harmonic balancer than a 6,
because of the 6-cyl. engine's better inherent balance.
4 cylinders generally have dynamic balancers[in the form of revolving
weights] while 6's have harmonics [in the form of a damped moving mass
in the crank pulley].
|
Yes- the latest BMW fours have a separate balance shaft - or maybe even a
pair of them.
--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9tqep1lfr9ncqa7k55irskotddibkd2b3d@4ax.com...
| Quote: | WAS a shitteaux design? They're still flying the thing ya know.
Dude, there is such a thing as CRAP RUBBER. Have you never come
across this *stuff* before? I've got a Fram Oil Filter out in the
garage with CRAP RUBBER for a sealing gasket.
If you want a Sample of CRAP RUBBER send me your mailing address and
I'll try to get the gasket to you before Christmas.
Lg
|
Ive heard all the complaints against Fram, but used them for many years with
never a problem...ever. I have switched to Wix or Delco, or just about
whatever
else I can get, simply so that I dont have to take a lot of BS from people
here IF
I should ever have a failure;>) Now, if you put them on with a 48' pipe
wrench,
you may have a gasket failure.
The space shuttle seal ring was a different situation. No 'rubber' would
have
stopped super hot exhaust from coming through there. If it were hot enough
to cut into the main fuel tank, no elastomer known to man can stand up to
direct exposure to those levels of temperature. The mechanical design, as
I remember the case, and the implementation of the assembly process led to
a damaged seal ring which then allowed plasma-like gas to escape. |
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Spud Demon
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> writes in article <1134057220.581074.77140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 8 Dec 2005 07:53:40 -0800:
| Quote: | It has been years since I've owned a Bimmer but I would think that a
4-cyl. would be far more likely to have a harmonic balancer than a 6,
because of the 6-cyl. engine's better inherent balance.
|
I don't see how. An inline-4 has naturally balanced pistons, provided that
the 2 outer cylinders are 360 degrees out of phase (one does compression
while the other does exhaust). Then the 2 center ones are 180 degrees
different from each of those. So while the outer pair is going one
direction, the inner pair is going the opposite direction at the same speed.
Are the crank and cam naturally balanced by symetry in an inline?
The opposite of the inline-4's perfect balance is the inline-2, used on
cheap motorcycles. Those things vibrate like hell because both pistons go
up and down together. BMW made a huge improvement with the opposing-2 --
they go in and out together but because they face opposite directions they
balance each other out.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. |
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Huw
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
|
|
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43970192.ABA2C829@sympatico.ca...
| Quote: | If your engine has a harmonic balancer and it is going bad, it can start
eating one edge of the belt.
|
If it was a six cylinder model I would agree with you but I don't think
there is a harmonic balancer on a four.
All things need considering and the most unlikely is a faulty belt. Most
likely is a small piece of dirt stuck in the pulley V's somewhere. Even a
bit of rough paint would be enough. Then check alignment of pulleys and
condition of all bearings. Next check for mounting problems on the belt
driven accessories. Also check for undue drag or power consumption from
these. Last but very much not least, check that the tensioner spring is in
good order and that it is not weakened somehow. I have one engine now where
the spring is around half the strength it should be.
It is also easy on some applications to install the belt out of square. This
applies particularly if say the bottom pulley has more grooves than other
pulleys. Manufacturers sometimes standardise on crank pulley sizes but vary
the ancillary pulley and belt sizes according to application and load. In
this circumstance it is easy for the uninitiated to install a belt wrongly
causing undue stress and premature failure.
Huw |
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N8N
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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Huw wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43970192.ABA2C829@sympatico.ca...
If your engine has a harmonic balancer and it is going bad, it can start
eating one edge of the belt.
If it was a six cylinder model I would agree with you but I don't think
there is a harmonic balancer on a four.
All things need considering and the most unlikely is a faulty belt. Most
likely is a small piece of dirt stuck in the pulley V's somewhere. Even a
bit of rough paint would be enough. Then check alignment of pulleys and
condition of all bearings. Next check for mounting problems on the belt
driven accessories. Also check for undue drag or power consumption from
these. Last but very much not least, check that the tensioner spring is in
good order and that it is not weakened somehow. I have one engine now where
the spring is around half the strength it should be.
It is also easy on some applications to install the belt out of square. This
applies particularly if say the bottom pulley has more grooves than other
pulleys. Manufacturers sometimes standardise on crank pulley sizes but vary
the ancillary pulley and belt sizes according to application and load. In
this circumstance it is easy for the uninitiated to install a belt wrongly
causing undue stress and premature failure.
Huw
|
It has been years since I've owned a Bimmer but I would think that a
4-cyl. would be far more likely to have a harmonic balancer than a 6,
because of the 6-cyl. engine's better inherent balance.
nate |
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Huw
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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|
"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote >
| Quote: | It has been years since I've owned a Bimmer but I would think that a
4-cyl. would be far more likely to have a harmonic balancer than a 6,
because of the 6-cyl. engine's better inherent balance.
|
4 cylinders generally have dynamic balancers[in the form of revolving
weights] while 6's have harmonics [in the form of a damped moving mass in
the crank pulley].
Huw |
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Mike Romain
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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Sam Nickaby wrote:
| Quote: |
"sdlomi2" <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kmJlf.618$ES.232@fe05.lga...
"Sam Nickaby" <Samhasnoemail@no.no.com> wrote in message> news:_0zlf.26977$dO2.
I've been having trouble with premature belt failure for a while and can't
figure this out. <snip
68k miles 5ft-year... = car bought
76k miles 8th year.. = 2" sections of belt chipped
80k miles 9th year ..= all sections of belt splits, some chip, brand Continental
87k miles 10th year = 1" sections of belt chip, brand Continental
87k 10th year .........= will try to replace idler bearing.
If the effects of the environment is cracking the ribbed part of the Continental
belt, which becomes visible only after two weeks of installation, should
there be a preventative maintenance done yearly?
Thanks
|
I am going to take a wild assed guess and figure you bought the belts at
the same place.
My next guess is they bought the belts when the car was new or before
that even and they have had them sitting on the shelf ever since.
If so, the belts have dry rotted.
I would try to buy the next belt at a different place and even change
brands if one there appears dry to the touch.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
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Lawrence Glickman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
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|
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:10:09 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9tqep1lfr9ncqa7k55irskotddibkd2b3d@4ax.com...
WAS a shitteaux design? They're still flying the thing ya know.
Dude, there is such a thing as CRAP RUBBER. Have you never come
across this *stuff* before? I've got a Fram Oil Filter out in the
garage with CRAP RUBBER for a sealing gasket.
If you want a Sample of CRAP RUBBER send me your mailing address and
I'll try to get the gasket to you before Christmas.
Lg
Ive heard all the complaints against Fram, but used them for many years with
never a problem...ever. I have switched to Wix or Delco, or just about
whatever
else I can get, simply so that I dont have to take a lot of BS from people
here IF
I should ever have a failure;>) Now, if you put them on with a 48' pipe
wrench,
you may have a gasket failure.
|
Fram uses a _very_ low-grade gasket in comparison with that supplied
on the Mobil 1 series filters. In comparison, Fram's gasket ( and
other rubber parts ) is something between chewing gum and a rubber
band.
| Quote: | The space shuttle seal ring was a different situation. No 'rubber' would
have
stopped super hot exhaust from coming through there. If it were hot enough
to cut into the main fuel tank, no elastomer known to man can stand up to
direct exposure to those levels of temperature. The mechanical design, as
I remember the case, and the implementation of the assembly process led to
a damaged seal ring which then allowed plasma-like gas to escape.
|
There is such stuff as crap rubber. You know this from buying budget
tires and comparing the tread-wear and handling characteristics with a
higher quality tire. Crap rubber is not ruled out on my list, as a
case for premature belt failure. Other people have ruled it out and
gone on a witch hunt for something more sinister. Good for them; they
must have lots of extra time on their hands.
Lg |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Serpentine Belt goes bad too soon. |
|
|
Sam Nickaby wrote:
| Quote: | "sdlomi2" <sdlomi2@spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kmJlf.618$ES.232@fe05.lga...
"Sam Nickaby" <Samhasnoemail@no.no.com> wrote in message> news:_0zlf.26977$dO2.
I've been having trouble with premature belt failure for a while and can't
figure this out. <snip
Sam, I'd look closely at each pulley surface, including idlers.
Sometimes they wear at an angle towards the center, rather than flat across
the original surface--supercharged Buicks have been esp. troublesome in my
experience. The idlers have also worn with grooves from who-knows-where ?
These grooved pulleys then wear grooves into the belts. HTH, s
Thanks all. Based on the advices, I'll change the idler bearings tomorrow.
My measurements came out with a full play of 0.04 inch at the top edge
of the idler wheel. If I had a German service manual I'd check this number
but the best manual I have is Bentley which is almost too basic and nearly
useless. Here's more info on the belt issue:
68k miles 5ft-year... = car bought
76k miles 8th year.. = 2" sections of belt chipped
80k miles 9th year ..= all sections of belt splits, some chip, brand Continental
87k miles 10th year = 1" sections of belt chip, brand Continental
87k 10th year .........= will try to replace idler bearing.
If the effects of the environment is cracking the ribbed part of the Continental
belt, which becomes visible only after two weeks of installation, should
there be a preventative maintenance done yearly?
Thanks
|
Wow. 4k miles on the belt and it frags? Where have you getting your
belts from? Maybe they have been sitting on the shelf too long?
--
-Fred W |
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