| Author |
Message |
Mike Hunter
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:29 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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Toyota is also building plants in China and Mexico to ship cars and trucks
to the US ;0
mike hunt
"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-0D5B33.11162328112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | In article <a7nko11t300up9lgdqhnlon8pcjs7f4nh3@4ax.com>,
nothermark <trash@gnomex.cotse.net> wrote:
Folks like you seem to forget that the high standard of living we
had was because of the low end workers getting it so everyone else
did. Now the mantra is that they don't deserve it. Soon no one will
deserve it as no one left working will be worthy of benefits.
Sure they'll be working, in Toyota, Honda, etc. plants; while GM is busy
making corporate profits importing Korean, Chinese, etc. cars.
Can't you see it? GM is the traitor to employment here by not upgrading
their vehicles. GM is selling on price, not function and quality.
While we speak Toyota is building a second large plant in Ontario and
will be shipping the vehicles built there around the world. The first
vehicle they plan to build in this new plant has previously only been
built in Japan. Of course Toyota will be sourcing parts in NAFTA where
possible. |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:33 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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Honda does indeed build many of the cars it sells in the US of American
parts but not Toyota. Most of what Toyota sells in the US are imported or
merely assemble in the US of mostly imported parts except for those built in
the GM/Toyota plant in California. The UAW contract for that plaint
requires 75% American parts.
..
mike hunt
"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-88D5F2.10442228112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | In article <clKdnagXVuUjGRXeUSdV9g@ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
there
is not valid reason to pay more to buy a foreign vehicle and add to the
trade imbalance.
Most Toyotas and Hondas are not imports.
Many "foreign" vehicles built in the USA are exported around the world.
See BMW in Greenvile, SC and Mercedes in the next state south.
As to the Korean cars if I were to chose to have my money
leave the country I would buy a Korean car before a Japanese car because
of
the pricing.
GM has started selling Korean built cars. Cars from China next.
I won't be a buyer as I'll try to buy a NAFTA built car, which includes
most Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, etc. |
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B a r r y
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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Hal Whelply wrote:
| Quote: |
The dealer experience is one of the main reasons I stick with foreign brands
(though my latest acquisition, a 2006 Subaru Legacy, was built by Hoosiers
in Lafayette, IN). US dealers treat customers like cattle with checkbooks.
|
That's kind of a silly statement, car dealerships are local operations.
I've been treated at both ends of the scale by Toyota dealerships,
crappy at a Subaru dealer, and both ends of the scale by Jeep
dealerships. In fact, the crappy Jeep dealer also sells Mazda, GMC,
Ford, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln, Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Pontiac and Nissan
at his other dealerships on the same street.
The evil Subaru dealer and the awesome Toyota dealer are both family
(different ones <G>) operations. I got completely taken advantage of at
18 years old, by yet another family-owned Toyota dealer.
The awesome Toyota operation is by far the best dealership I have ever
dealt with, from the sale, to parts & service, to a warranty issue. My
local Chevy dealer, a smaller operation, has a stellar reputation with
lots of folks who's opinions I trust.
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StingRay
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:52 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-DCE056.23393225112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | snip
Another example of poor management is Stelco.
They are a basket case, yet next door Dofasco, the kid on the block,
has been doing so well a European company has offered an excess amount
of cash to buy them out.
|
You've reminded me of another interesting consideration. Dofasco is
non-union! Interesting. |
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KLS
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:20 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:26:53 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I forget to point out I also own five cars that I have owned since new. A
41, 64, 71, 72, and an 83.
|
You own a 1941 car you bought brand new? WOW!!! What is it, and will
you be selling it soon?
I figure you must have been born in the 1920s to be old enough to
drive/own a 1941 beauty. |
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Jane
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:36 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-470816.10310928112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | In article <7ZYhf.33163$gK4.1039337@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote:
There is some "dead wood" in there (as there is anywhere), but they are
few
and far between. Most of us work our butts off.
I'm sure you do but management have not been designing and building the
cars many people want. I know GM is trying to upgrade their designs now,
but it's coming a bit late.
|
Agreed. The union has been telling them that for years (I'm not a huge
union booster, but I will give credit where due).
Jane |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:21 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
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I was born in 1926. The 41 Continental convertible is the only one of my
old cars that I did not buy new. In fact I did not buy it at all, it was
willed to me by a friend and fellow collector in the seventies who bough it
new ;)
mike hunt
"KLS" <xymergy@suds.com> wrote in message
news:e44no1tblcfq88c378ns4vmsm53veumbe5@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:26:53 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
I forget to point out I also own five cars that I have owned since new. A
41, 64, 71, 72, and an 83.
You own a 1941 car you bought brand new? WOW!!! What is it, and will
you be selling it soon?
I figure you must have been born in the 1920s to be old enough to
drive/own a 1941 beauty. |
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Spam Hater
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
In article <1chno199qhprikpiehnftikdkk157c4euk@4ax.com>,
nothermark <trash@gnomex.cotse.net> wrote:
| Quote: | AFAIK the foreign owned plants are non union and low benefit. A major
cost problem for the big 3 is pensions that the newer producers do not
have because they offer 401K's instead of defined benefit plans and
have not been around long enough to have a huge load of pensioners.
Does any other company have the riduculous layoff support for over 4 yrs |
that GM has?
| Quote: | Add it the location factor in that the old plants are often in high
tax areas where they are beaten up with local taxes much higher than
the low tax states have.
In CDA the GM plants are in the same regions as other vehicle plants; |
southern Ontario.
| Quote: | There are some real issues there to deal
with. In the US medical benefits alone are reputed to cost GM
$1500/vehicle. That is part of why they do most of their assembly in
Canada.
Most GM cars are built in CDA? Don't believe it. Actually the |
shutdowns in CDA are very significant and I understand one involves GM's
most efficient assembly plant.
| Quote: | Ford was the first company to show me about imported cars - they
imported Angila's int he 1960's then dropped service when they were 7
years old.
That wasn't a great problem as most of those terrible Angila's were |
trash by then. I was in school at the time and we couldn't understand
anyone buying such a car. Imagine that car less school kids not
wanting a car.
| Quote: |
Chrysler is now an example of bad German
engineering.
Well I'd call it management politics to drop costs as low as possible. |
Ref: RWD and stupid cruise control in Chrysler models;
Chrysler Hemi V8 in Mercedes models. |
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Spam Hater
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
In article <XK-dnZomEZex4RbenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@rogers.com>,
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-DCE056.23393225112005@news.telus.net...
snip
Another example of poor management is Stelco.
They are a basket case, yet next door Dofasco, the kid on the block,
has been doing so well a European company has offered an excess amount
of cash to buy them out.
You've reminded me of another interesting consideration. Dofasco is
non-union! Interesting.
|
True, but Dofasco's workers benefited from the union contracts at Stelco.
Not only is Dofasco non union, I believe it is profit sharing. |
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nothermark
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:16:24 GMT, Spam Hater <iHate@spam.net> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <a7nko11t300up9lgdqhnlon8pcjs7f4nh3@4ax.com>,
nothermark <trash@gnomex.cotse.net> wrote:
Folks like you seem to forget that the high standard of living we
had was because of the low end workers getting it so everyone else
did. Now the mantra is that they don't deserve it. Soon no one will
deserve it as no one left working will be worthy of benefits.
Sure they'll be working, in Toyota, Honda, etc. plants; while GM is busy
making corporate profits importing Korean, Chinese, etc. cars.
Can't you see it? GM is the traitor to employment here by not upgrading
their vehicles. GM is selling on price, not function and quality.
While we speak Toyota is building a second large plant in Ontario and
will be shipping the vehicles built there around the world. The first
vehicle they plan to build in this new plant has previously only been
built in Japan. Of course Toyota will be sourcing parts in NAFTA where
possible.
|
AFAIK the foreign owned plants are non union and low benefit. A major
cost problem for the big 3 is pensions that the newer producers do not
have because they offer 401K's instead of defined benefit plans and
have not been around long enough to have a huge load of pensioners.
Add it the location factor in that the old plants are often in high
tax areas where they are beaten up with local taxes much higher than
the low tax states have. There are some real issues there to deal
with. In the US medical benefits alone are reputed to cost GM
$1500/vehicle. That is part of why they do most of their assembly in
Canada.
Ford was the first company to show me about imported cars - they
imported Angila's int he 1960's then dropped service when they were 7
years old. Not pretty at the time. GM is no better. They were
another pioneer in moving out of the country. I now live around
Rochester NY. The old Delco (Delphi) is in trouble and the old
Rochester products is being phased out by the french company that
bought them. Major hits on the local workforce.
FWIW I make a point of not buying imported products that are sold by
US major manufacturers whenever possible. I would much rather have my
Hyundai with it's 100,000 mile warranty than any Korean import GM or
Ford try to foist off as theirs. Somehow I think the oney should go to
honest management. ;-) Chrysler is now an example of bad German
engineering. |
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Jane
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-3BB44D.00482729112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | In article <1chno199qhprikpiehnftikdkk157c4euk@4ax.com>,
nothermark <trash@gnomex.cotse.net> wrote:
AFAIK the foreign owned plants are non union and low benefit. A major
cost problem for the big 3 is pensions that the newer producers do not
have because they offer 401K's instead of defined benefit plans and
have not been around long enough to have a huge load of pensioners.
Does any other company have the riduculous layoff support for over 4 yrs
that GM has?
Add it the location factor in that the old plants are often in high
tax areas where they are beaten up with local taxes much higher than
the low tax states have.
In CDA the GM plants are in the same regions as other vehicle plants;
southern Ontario.
There are some real issues there to deal
with. In the US medical benefits alone are reputed to cost GM
$1500/vehicle. That is part of why they do most of their assembly in
Canada.
Most GM cars are built in CDA? Don't believe it. Actually the
shutdowns in CDA are very significant and I understand one involves GM's
most efficient assembly plant.
|
Politics is the reason. Most of us here think we will end up with car
plant#1 expanding instead, once it is retooled for flex manufacturing (both
car plants share the same building and the lines run side-by-side). GM
Canada started backing away from the plant closure within a day of the
announcement. There will be job losses, but not as severe as predicted.
They may even reinstate the 3rd shift that we are losing in 2006. We've
already lost a lot of jobs over the years...through outsourcing and
productivity gains. When I started in Oshawa in '82, GM employed 18 000
people. We are now down to about 10 000, and nobody noticed.
Jane
| Quote: |
Ford was the first company to show me about imported cars - they
imported Angila's int he 1960's then dropped service when they were 7
years old.
That wasn't a great problem as most of those terrible Angila's were
trash by then. I was in school at the time and we couldn't understand
anyone buying such a car. Imagine that car less school kids not
wanting a car.
Chrysler is now an example of bad German
engineering.
Well I'd call it management politics to drop costs as low as possible.
Ref: RWD and stupid cruise control in Chrysler models;
Chrysler Hemi V8 in Mercedes models. |
|
|
| Back to top |
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Jane
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
| That's 18 000 people in Oshawa alone, BTW. |
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:01 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-D24458.21005528112005@news.telus.net...
| Quote: | You've reminded me of another interesting consideration. Dofasco is
non-union! Interesting.
True, but Dofasco's workers benefited from the union contracts at Stelco.
Not only is Dofasco non union, I believe it is profit sharing.
|
There is no question that Dofasco workers have benefited from union
contracts at Stelco over the years. It is noteworthy, however, that the
employee profit-sharing program has been offered since 1938! I'd call that
pretty forward thinking for its time.
Here's a link to this same information, plus the latest word on the $4.8
Billion Canadian offer from ThyssenKrupp of Germany, which has been
accepted:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/29/business/steel.php |
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Spam Hater
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:38 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
In article <Pa6dnckHxtpXQBHeRVn-jg@rogers.com>,
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote:
| Quote: | There is no question that Dofasco workers have benefited from union
contracts at Stelco over the years. It is noteworthy, however, that the
employee profit-sharing program has been offered since 1938! I'd call that
pretty forward thinking for its time.
Yes it was. Another similar forward thinking company was Shaw Brick in |
Nova Scotia. I believe a past NDP leader came from that Shaw family.
Too bad, I held Dofasco shares as an excellent dividend stock, now I
have this up front capital gain. Hard to replace that dividend in
today's low yield market.
| Quote: | TORONTO The Canadian steel maker Dofasco has rebuffed a bid from Arcelor and
instead endorsed an offer of 4.8 billion Canadian dollars that it solicited
from ThyssenKrupp of Germany.
Dofasco sought the white knight bid, worth $4.1 billion, after last week's
unsolicited offer from Arcelor of Luxembourg. ThyssenKrupp's all-cash bid of
61.50 Canadian dollars a share represents about a 10 percent premium to
Arcelor's bid and is about 40 percent above Dofasco's closing price the day
before Arcelor announced its intentions.
|
At least I expect they'll not move Dofasco out of CDA. |
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