| Author |
Message |
PHILIPHD
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
GM has only built the Gas hogs because that was what the public was
asking for, SUV's and pickups. When the price of gas changed instead
of hollering rape by the oil companies, you complain about gas hogs.
Don't complain about a national policy to eliminate these hogs.
You obviously don't follow JD Powers and its quality ratings as GM
ratings have constantly improved while the foreign models are slipping.
The KIA is such a high quality product that in some parts of the
country you have a hard time getting one financed. They do look good
however.
Oh well keep buying overseas products and you will be wondering were
your job went to.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:10 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Ave. pay is 65 per hour for unskilled labor - overtime is much greater. All
health care and drugs paid for at pretty much 100% (includes retirees).
Guaranteed full pay and benefits for 2 years in the case of layoffs. I know
some PHD's who would like contracts like this. IMO GM will not survive,
because the unions are spoiled and will not give in that much.
--
Jerry
"PHILIPHD" <pdevolejr@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1132612676.064310.16080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I will agree with you that executive salaries and umbrellas are out of
line. When is the last time you heard of one of these executives being
fired for poor performance. However labor cost are only a part of the
problem. The unions have had a rough time organizing the satellite
companies of Nissan, Toyota and Mercedes, primarily because these
companies are located in the good old boy states that have the so
called right to work law. The damn fools working for these companies
have been brain washed and threatened by there management into
beleiving that the union isn't in there best intrest.
We neeed to put and end to the so called free trade agreements the
Senators and Representatives that push this junk should be shoot for
treason. If you took the time to study what free trade is you will
find that it really is an extension of Reganomics and the trickle down
effect. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now. There is no such
thing as free trade and never will be.
You point out trading with Red China. We as a country should be
ashamed of our selves trading with them. It was the lack of a good
industrial base that brought about the downfall of Russia as a
communist country. It is time to wake up to the fact that we are at
war with the third world countries and they are winning because we are
allowing our inducstrial base to be moved offshore. Another thing I
would like to point out is that at the present time there in excess of
35,000 paid lobbyists in Washington influence peddling to our
legislators. This has to stop and our officials have to get back to
representing the American People and this country. It should be
illegal for any foreign government or corporation to lobby in
Washington. It is illegal in most foreign countries.
The bottom line is that the autoworkers aren't over paid. Most of the
gains that they have made where thru cost of living raises. If the
rest of the country had received these raises as they should have
everyone would have been better off. Another thing this country needs
is a National Health Care program so that are companies can compete,
even good old Red China has a National Health Care Progra.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:22 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime. Physically taxing - no
(why would it be boring if physically taxing?). Accidents - mostly faked to
get paid time off. These guys will someday realize that there is no free
lunch. Areas around GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that is
certainlly true, but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
--
Jerry
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tKSdnaM8v_pl2h_enZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:vvrgf.113411$Hs.72062@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Being familiar with some of these "layoffs", employees love it. It's
like getting a paid vacation for up to a couple of years - good job eh??
--
Jerry
gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bc3eb$43822b97$471c6cb3$2388@ALLTEL.NET...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:uapgf.113377$Hs.72439@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Technically, the plants are not closing - they are just shutting down.
They cannot close them without union approval. Also, the workers get
paid even though they are not working. Great job - right?
--
Not in any union I've ever been a member of. Those guys will be on
furlough, with recall rights as per their seniority. Drawing
unemployment until they find another job or get recalled to GM. But
certainly not drawing a paycheck from GM. I've never been a UAW member
but I can't imagine what you're saying here is true.
Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their jobs.
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who
were killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The
fringe benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a
direct result of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions, medical
coverage and vacations. Realize too that as union membership has
decreased, so have these benefits. Is there a direct correlation? Maybe -
maybe not. Certainly foreign competition has affected the situation. But
WalMart has no foreign competitors - and their benefits suck. Be sure of
this - no executive at GM, Ford, or Chrysler has had his benefits slashed.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dennis Smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
In article <1132618958.744633.213020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
MSfortune@mcpmail.com says...
| Quote: |
I always ask myself why they did not make some of these restructuring
moves years ago. They didn't have the market share then to support the
fixed costs. I worked for Rick in the 70's. He's a great talker and
self promoter, but he bares the blame for much of the current mess not
being addressed.
|
If there's anybody to blame its Roger Smith. He's the one that started
this whole domino effect!
--
_________________________________________________________________
Dennis Smith
-1971 Trans Am - 455 H.O. - M21 4speed - Cameo white/blue stripe-
-1973 Trans Am - 455 - TH400 auto - Buccaneer red-
-1984 Trans Am - 5.0 L - TH700R4 auto - Royal blue/silver aero-
_________________________________________________________________ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Al Bundy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Central Committee of The Bonobo Chimpanzee wrote:
| Quote: | FOR RELEASE: 2005-11-21
|
" DETROIT - General Motors will undergo a wide-ranging restructuring
| Quote: | of its manufacturing operations in the United States and Canada
as part of its comprehensive four-point plan to return the company
to profitability and long-term growth, GM Chairman and CEO
Rick Wagoner announced today."
|
I always ask myself why they did not make some of these restructuring
moves years ago. They didn't have the market share then to support the
fixed costs. I worked for Rick in the 70's. He's a great talker and
self promoter, but he bares the blame for much of the current mess not
being addressed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doug
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:25 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
| Quote: | Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime.
|
Don't kid yourself - or try to BS anyone else. Your arrogant attitude
indicates that you have no idea what's involved with the job. And 65 an
hour? ROTFLMAO
| Quote: | Physically taxing - no (why would it be boring if physically taxing?).
|
It's known as repetition. Look it up in the dictionary, if you know how.
| Quote: | Accidents - mostly faked to get paid time off.
|
Really? Nothing like severing your finger to get a day off. Or a herniated
disc. Or being electrocuted. Just check with OSHA if you doubt it.
| Quote: | These guys will someday realize that there is no free lunch. Areas around
GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that is certainlly true,
but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
|
I doubt that you'll find many UAW workers who aren't aware of it. But like I
said - GM accepted the deal. Don't blame the workers. Your typical
anti-union attitude is common among those who are trapped in a lousy job
with crappy non-union pay and benefits, jealous of those are EARNING more
than you.
| Quote: |
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tKSdnaM8v_pl2h_enZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:vvrgf.113411$Hs.72062@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Being familiar with some of these "layoffs", employees love it. It's
like getting a paid vacation for up to a couple of years - good job eh??
--
Jerry
gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bc3eb$43822b97$471c6cb3$2388@ALLTEL.NET...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:uapgf.113377$Hs.72439@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Technically, the plants are not closing - they are just shutting down.
They cannot close them without union approval. Also, the workers get
paid even though they are not working. Great job - right?
--
Not in any union I've ever been a member of. Those guys will be on
furlough, with recall rights as per their seniority. Drawing
unemployment until they find another job or get recalled to GM. But
certainly not drawing a paycheck from GM. I've never been a UAW member
but I can't imagine what you're saying here is true.
Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their jobs.
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who
were killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The
fringe benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a
direct result of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions, medical
coverage and vacations. Realize too that as union membership has
decreased, so have these benefits. Is there a direct correlation? Maybe -
maybe not. Certainly foreign competition has affected the situation. But
WalMart has no foreign competitors - and their benefits suck. Be sure of
this - no executive at GM, Ford, or Chrysler has had his benefits
slashed.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doug
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:27 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
No harm, Garrett. I was responding to Jerry's whining. Your message wasn't
on my server when I posted.
Doug
"gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:15285$43824c1a$471c6cb3$29515@ALLTEL.NET...
| Quote: |
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tKSdnaM8v_pl2h_enZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their jobs.
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who
were killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The
fringe benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a
direct result of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions, medical
coverage and vacations. Realize too that as union membership has
decreased, so have these benefits. Is there a direct correlation? Maybe -
maybe not. Certainly foreign competition has affected the situation. But
WalMart has no foreign competitors - and their benefits suck. Be sure of
this - no executive at GM, Ford, or Chrysler has had his benefits
slashed.
Don't get the wrong idea from my post, Doug. I'm certainly not anti-union
and I don't doubt that assembly line work is likely as dangerous and
detrimental to health as you've related. And I'll add the 40 hr. work
week to your list of things that a lot of stout men in the union movement
in the '30's achieved for all of us. Been a union member since the
mid-70's. Although one that's weak kneed and in bed with management at
their beck and call. Intl. Assoc. of Machinist and Aerospace Workers.
(spit)
Garrett Fulton
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
No One You Know
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:40 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Jerry wrote:
| Quote: | Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime. Physically taxing - no
(why would it be boring if physically taxing?). Accidents - mostly faked to
get paid time off. These guys will someday realize that there is no free
lunch. Areas around GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that is
certainlly true, but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
--
Jerry
|
You must have been one of those "4F's" that couldn't get hired into GM.
Sounds like a little jelousy going on here. Jerry, you just wish you
could spend 30+ years in one job and draw a decent pension don't you?
How about decent health care? Still got all your teeth? Can you afford
to buy Rx or are you on the Federal dole? Am I UAW? Hell Yes! I earned
every benefit I have! All you non union SCABs did in your life is
benefit from Union won gains. Free lunch? Ya right. Oh by the way,
there isn't one UAW member that earns $65 an hour. More like $26 and
benefits vary.
Why don't you get a copy if the GM/UAW contract and read it(if you can)
then you will see the whole picture.
NOYK in Florida living on a decent UAW won pension from GM.
Buy American-----BUY UNION! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:01 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Doug, I am surely not jealous of any GM worker. I'm comfortably retired and
was quite well paid in the Tech. area during my working years. In fact, I
feel as well off as anyone and don't have an ounce of jealousy regarding
anyone. However, I do believe that the GM worker is overpaid and has too
much control over the company. I would have this same complaint with any US
industry with similar situations. Most of the GM union jobs could be
performed by McDonalds employees at a fraction of the cost. This is hurting
the US competitiveness in this global economy and that's what I was
attempting to point out. I actually expected some strong union folks to
take offense to my comments. That's fine by me, just mark my words - those
companies with unions as strong as GM's will not survive unless the unions
make huge concessions (unlikely - they are spoiled) . I find this sad.
Most GM employees know that they are overpaid for what they do and have many
more benefits than the GM competition. However, due to human greed, they
will not give up much in order to save the company - therefore, goodbye GM
and their union jobs.
Jerry
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nsmdnRV225n--B_eRVn-hw@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime.
Don't kid yourself - or try to BS anyone else. Your arrogant attitude
indicates that you have no idea what's involved with the job. And 65 an
hour? ROTFLMAO
Physically taxing - no (why would it be boring if physically taxing?).
It's known as repetition. Look it up in the dictionary, if you know how.
Accidents - mostly faked to get paid time off.
Really? Nothing like severing your finger to get a day off. Or a herniated
disc. Or being electrocuted. Just check with OSHA if you doubt it.
These guys will someday realize that there is no free lunch. Areas around
GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that is certainlly true,
but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
I doubt that you'll find many UAW workers who aren't aware of it. But like
I said - GM accepted the deal. Don't blame the workers. Your typical
anti-union attitude is common among those who are trapped in a lousy job
with crappy non-union pay and benefits, jealous of those are EARNING more
than you.
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tKSdnaM8v_pl2h_enZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:vvrgf.113411$Hs.72062@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Being familiar with some of these "layoffs", employees love it. It's
like getting a paid vacation for up to a couple of years - good job
eh??
--
Jerry
gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bc3eb$43822b97$471c6cb3$2388@ALLTEL.NET...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:uapgf.113377$Hs.72439@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Technically, the plants are not closing - they are just shutting
down. They cannot close them without union approval. Also, the
workers get paid even though they are not working. Great job -
right?
--
Not in any union I've ever been a member of. Those guys will be on
furlough, with recall rights as per their seniority. Drawing
unemployment until they find another job or get recalled to GM. But
certainly not drawing a paycheck from GM. I've never been a UAW
member but I can't imagine what you're saying here is true.
Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their jobs.
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who
were killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The
fringe benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a
direct result of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions,
medical coverage and vacations. Realize too that as union membership has
decreased, so have these benefits. Is there a direct correlation?
Maybe - maybe not. Certainly foreign competition has affected the
situation. But WalMart has no foreign competitors - and their benefits
suck. Be sure of this - no executive at GM, Ford, or Chrysler has had
his benefits slashed.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
enigmatic
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:37 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
PHILIPHD
I don't dispute what You say, but how much more
pressure can Ford and GM take? Korean vehicle
prices are even hurting the Japanese import sales.
I protested NAFTA- a certain disaster- when it first
was implemented and I was right, but let's face the
facts. Most likely the Chinese industries are being
bankrolled by American investors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:43 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Hey, I'm not disappointed! I expected big negatives from lazy, greedy union
folks. Hang in there, you might be lucky and maybe the global economy will
collapse and the US become isolationistic. Then, you union turkeys can
regain their total control over US companies and have all your unrealistic
demands be met. Buy union?? - you gotta be kidding. That may have worked
40 years ago. Today, folks buy based on value for their buck. That's why
the strong unions days are numbered.
--
Jerry
"No One You Know" <nooneyouknow34474@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132620007.036426.270480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Jerry wrote:
Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime. Physically taxing -
no
(why would it be boring if physically taxing?). Accidents - mostly faked
to
get paid time off. These guys will someday realize that there is no free
lunch. Areas around GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that
is
certainlly true, but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
--
Jerry
You must have been one of those "4F's" that couldn't get hired into GM.
Sounds like a little jelousy going on here. Jerry, you just wish you
could spend 30+ years in one job and draw a decent pension don't you?
How about decent health care? Still got all your teeth? Can you afford
to buy Rx or are you on the Federal dole? Am I UAW? Hell Yes! I earned
every benefit I have! All you non union SCABs did in your life is
benefit from Union won gains. Free lunch? Ya right. Oh by the way,
there isn't one UAW member that earns $65 an hour. More like $26 and
benefits vary.
Why don't you get a copy if the GM/UAW contract and read it(if you can)
then you will see the whole picture.
NOYK in Florida living on a decent UAW won pension from GM.
Buy American-----BUY UNION!
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doug
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:13 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
So you don't think the UAW's recent give-backs on medical benefits is a huge
concession? Think again!
If you really want your car assembled by McDonalds workers...hell, that's
too insipid to respond to.
What you are really saying is that you don't believe that blue collar
workers are entitled to earn a fair wage.
| Quote: | I'm comfortably retired and was quite well paid in the Tech. area during
my working years.
Just as I suspected - a white collar elitest who chafes at the idea that a |
person whom they consider to be beneath them intellectually and socially is
making a decent living. Overpaid is a loosely used term - just remember that
GM workers have received only cost of living increases for years. In
exchange for reduced pay increases, they negotiated for health coverage. A
pretty savvy move, I think. Not bad for blue collar workers, eh?
BTW - did you volunteer to give ANYTHING back when the scourge of
outsourcing in the tech/IT industry? I doubt it - as you said, you were well
paid and now comfortqably retired. Pushed out, no doubt, by the very same
people.
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:U5ugf.136961$tD4.68739@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
| Quote: | Doug, I am surely not jealous of any GM worker. I'm comfortably retired
and was quite well paid in the Tech. area during my working years. In
fact, I feel as well off as anyone and don't have an ounce of jealousy
regarding anyone. However, I do believe that the GM worker is overpaid
and has too much control over the company. I would have this same
complaint with any US industry with similar situations. Most of the GM
union jobs could be performed by McDonalds employees at a fraction of the
cost. This is hurting the US competitiveness in this global economy and
that's what I was attempting to point out. I actually expected some
strong union folks to take offense to my comments. That's fine by me,
just mark my words - those companies with unions as strong as GM's will
not survive unless the unions make huge concessions (unlikely - they are
spoiled) . I find this sad. Most GM employees know that they are overpaid
for what they do and have many more benefits than the GM competition.
However, due to human greed, they will not give up much in order to save
the company - therefore, goodbye GM and their union jobs.
Jerry
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nsmdnRV225n--B_eRVn-hw@comcast.com...
Boring yes, that's because anyone could do the jobs at much less than
the
65/hour that they're getting, not counting overtime.
Don't kid yourself - or try to BS anyone else. Your arrogant attitude
indicates that you have no idea what's involved with the job. And 65 an
hour? ROTFLMAO
Physically taxing - no (why would it be boring if physically taxing?).
It's known as repetition. Look it up in the dictionary, if you know how.
Accidents - mostly faked to get paid time off.
Really? Nothing like severing your finger to get a day off. Or a
herniated disc. Or being electrocuted. Just check with OSHA if you doubt
it.
These guys will someday realize that there is no free lunch. Areas
around GM plants nickename them as "Generous Motors" - that is certainlly
true, but will end in a few yeare due to global competition.
I doubt that you'll find many UAW workers who aren't aware of it. But
like I said - GM accepted the deal. Don't blame the workers. Your typical
anti-union attitude is common among those who are trapped in a lousy job
with crappy non-union pay and benefits, jealous of those are EARNING more
than you.
"doug" <dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tKSdnaM8v_pl2h_enZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:vvrgf.113411$Hs.72062@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Being familiar with some of these "layoffs", employees love it. It's
like getting a paid vacation for up to a couple of years - good job
eh??
--
Jerry
gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bc3eb$43822b97$471c6cb3$2388@ALLTEL.NET...
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:uapgf.113377$Hs.72439@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Technically, the plants are not closing - they are just shutting
down. They cannot close them without union approval. Also, the
workers get paid even though they are not working. Great job -
right?
--
Not in any union I've ever been a member of. Those guys will be on
furlough, with recall rights as per their seniority. Drawing
unemployment until they find another job or get recalled to GM. But
certainly not drawing a paycheck from GM. I've never been a UAW
member but I can't imagine what you're saying here is true.
Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their
jobs.
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who
were killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The
fringe benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a
direct result of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions,
medical coverage and vacations. Realize too that as union membership
has decreased, so have these benefits. Is there a direct correlation?
Maybe - maybe not. Certainly foreign competition has affected the
situation. But WalMart has no foreign competitors - and their benefits
suck. Be sure of this - no executive at GM, Ford, or Chrysler has had
his benefits slashed.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hairy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bc3eb$43822b97$471c6cb3$2388@ALLTEL.NET...
| Quote: |
"Jerry" <NoSpam@???.??.com> wrote in message
news:uapgf.113377$Hs.72439@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Technically, the plants are not closing - they are just shutting down.
They cannot close them without union approval. Also, the workers get
paid
even though they are not working. Great job - right?
--
Not in any union I've ever been a member of. Those guys will be on
furlough, with recall rights as per their seniority. Drawing unemployment
until they find another job or get recalled to GM. But certainly not
drawing a paycheck from GM. I've never been a UAW member but I can't
imagine what you're saying here is true.
|
Jerry is full of shit.
Dave |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:19:21 -0500, "doug"
<dougejNOSPAM@SPAMFREEhotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Good job? Usually not. UAW jobs are often physically taxing (even with
automation) and often boring. On-the-job accidents are frequent. Many
workers must retire early due to physical problems caused by their jobs.
|
But where is it written that people who don't have skillsets that make
them broadly employable can expect exciting jobs? And accidents, for
better or worse, are part of any manual labor scene.
| Quote: |
Good benefits? Damn right. Don't blame the union for a contract that GM
agreed to. Even more important, don't forget the many auto workers who were
killed in the '30s while trying to win union representation. The fringe
benefits that workers of all stripes now have available are a direct result
of union workers' sacrifices. Things like pensions, medical coverage and
vacations. Realize too that as union membership has decreased, so have these
benefits. Is there a direct correlation? Maybe - maybe not. Certainly
foreign competition has affected the situation. But WalMart has no foreign
competitors - and their benefits suck. Be sure of this - no executive at GM,
Ford, or Chrysler has had his benefits slashed.
While this is true to a degree, your argument assumes that workers |
would never gain ground due to a free-market economy. And because of
that, your argument is flawed. When a worker and/or a skill is in
demand, its price goes up, so wages and benefits have to rise if they
want to keep them. One only has to see the wage power that
white-collar individuals outside unit environments have to see the
benefit of this.
Wal-Mart's benefits suck because most of its employees are classified
as part-time. And no executive ever feels the pain that the worker
feels, no matter what. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:13:26 -0500, "doug" <NOSPAM@SPAMFREE.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Just as I suspected - a white collar elitest who chafes at the idea that a
person whom they consider to be beneath them intellectually and socially is
making a decent living. Overpaid is a loosely used term - just remember that
GM workers have received only cost of living increases for years. In
exchange for reduced pay increases, they negotiated for health coverage. A
pretty savvy move, I think. Not bad for blue collar workers, eh?
|
Do you know there are many teachers in this country that don't do
better than that? And they pay for their education and the continuing
training necessary to keep up their certification.
I'm by no means anti-union; all I'm saying is for years people in that
industry ignored problems staring them in the face and are now paying
the consequences of it. During the glory days of manufacturing, we
didn't have a true world economy. You didn't have companies in
virtually all major Asian economies making goods that were exported
abroad, and those that were made things largely regarded as inferior.
One of the problems with business in general is it never changes until
the market forces it to, and then the correction is usually more
painful than it necessarily has to be. If things had changed sooner,
the pain would be less severe now. But you simply can't compete on the
world scale and pay the generous terms that were agreed to when that
competition was much less a threat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in