| Author |
Message |
Hal Whelply
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:bSednUYrFosR8RXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | ... I no longer need to put up with the arrogance of foreign car dealers
who seem to think they are doing me a favor buy letting me buy one of
their overpriced cars...
|
The dealer experience is one of the main reasons I stick with foreign brands
(though my latest acquisition, a 2006 Subaru Legacy, was built by Hoosiers
in Lafayette, IN). US dealers treat customers like cattle with checkbooks.
I've consistently received more courteous, customer-oriented service from
foreign brand dealers who seem to realize customers are their "bread and
buttter."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ralph E Lindberg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
In article <OVOdncRDuZpPHxXeUSdV9g@ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Were, in your dreams? ;)
Six months sales figures individual vehicles
. Ford F-Series 432,969
. Chevrolet Silverado 322,907
. Dodge Ram pickup 223,609
. Toyota Camry 213,625
. Honda Accord 192,106
. Ford Explorer 168,059
. Honda Civic 162,483
. Ford Taurus 144,035
. Chevrolet Impala 139,460
. Dodge Caravan 131,367
Talk about using figured to lie |
Try looking at over all sales.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Michael
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:43 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Sat 26 Nov 2005 08:42:19a, Mike Hunter wrote in
news:kl6dnc1z4vjT6RXeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
| Quote: | Get real, where do you guys come up with this stuff. Having owned a
fleet service company I can tell you every manufacture offers a
discount to fleets that averages between $400 and $600. To be assigned
a fleet discount number the fleet has to have at least five vehicles.
No manufacture can shuffle cars to rental car companies, period.
Manufactures can not sell cars to anyone except their dealers, it
would violate franchise law. Fleets like everybody else buys the
vehicles that they believe to be the best value. Fleets like
individuals must buy their vehicles from franchised dealers. To
retain ones fleet discount numbers, fleets must keep their vehicles in
service for one year or till the introduction date of the next years
models. Ford sells around 80% of corporate fleet sales because they
have proven to be the most cost effective vehicles for corporations.
Unlike rental car companies, were the cars are the 'product' of their
business, corporate fleet vehicles are just another 'tool' used in
their business Corporations look at the total cost over time of
acquisition, insurance, parts, maintance, repair and replacement of
their vehicles and Ford vehicles over the years have been the best in
that regard. . Corporate fleets, generally keep their vehicles in
service for five years or 300k WOF because of federal tax deprecation
laws.
mike
|
I last bought a Ford in 1974; Mustang with defectively designed engine
recalled after warrantees had expired - they would pay those that had had
engine replaced on their own before warrantee expired and could produce a
receipt. The rest of us lost not only a few thousand in depreciation but
that amount again because we stupidly picked a model with a defectively
designed engine produced by a proud company that felt management's
bonus' came way ahead of any group of customers that stupid.
I think they really earned my "loyalty". I may wait another 30 years
before considering a purchase from Ford.
I remember hearing in the old days of lunch bags left in oil pans of new
either GM or Ford (maybe both) cars by employees, evidently trying to
educate the public on why they should not want to buy this brand. I
thought that education program had historically the most bang for the
buck EVER.
--
Mike
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
80 Knight
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:56 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ZYhf.33163$gK4.1039337@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: |
"80 Knight" <80_knightREMOVEME@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:m56dnUDBhdCntxXeRVn-iw@rogers.com...
"Spam Hater" <iHate@spam.net> wrote in message
news:iHate-DCE056.23393225112005@news.telus.net...
In article <MPSdnZhvnp_7lhXeRVn-oA@rogers.com>,
"80 Knight" <80_knightREMOVEME@rogers.com> wrote:
Hey, if the guy drives his Lada into a GM parking lot, it should be
destroyed. What about you, John? Will you suffer when the GM closers
happen?
If not, then shut the hell up. You take your Honda, Toyota and other
pieces
of foreign crap and drive it all you want. *I* will support the company
who
I should. The company who I respect, and the company who puts a *lot*
of
money into my community. Can you say the same? All I have seen from you
is
trollish behavior. If you hate GM so much then get out of the group, or
stop
bitching.
Destroying those Ladas was very stupid.
If they had just waited a few years the Ladas would have self destructed
and demonstrated their very poor quality.
Continuing to support GM when they have demonstrated very poor
management is just sticking ones head in the sand. I feel very sorry
for the GM workers who are watching their company fold around them,
because of very poor management.
Many of us (me included) were strong GM supporters and users, but have
recently been frustrated with the poor designs they have been marketing.
In addition GM importing cars from Korea and soon China simply
demonstrates they are off track.
IMO the GM workers would be better off if a very well managed company
such as Toyota took over the GM plants.
Another example of poor management is Stelco.
They are a basket case, yet next door Dofasco, the kid on the block,
has been doing so well a European company has offered an excess amount
of cash to buy them out.
Unfortunately company history is full of stories where poor management
has caused company failure. The only solution is a complete overhaul of
the company.
Hey, I am all for getting new management and what not into the company.
They need new people with new idea's. But, I'm sorry. I can not stand
'non big 3' cars. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia. Heck, I don't like many
Chrysler's or Ford's, but I have always liked GM's vehicles. I look at
Honda's and they just make me sick. The style (IMHO) is just terrible.
Sure, they can get 30Mpg, but so can my Bonneville, and it has a hell of
a lot more power, room and luxury.
You know something, I honestly don't think anyone can understand what it
is like to live in this part of Ontario without growing up here. The
Oshawa GM plant is a huge part of this place. It gives a lot of people
jobs, and does a lot for the town, and the surrounding ones. Just the
mere thought of what is going on actually happening sickens me, because I
know the impact it will have on my family, and countless others. Some of
you seem to think that working 40 hours a week doing the work these
people do for $25 an hour is the easiest thing in the world. Well, go
ahead and give it a try. Do it for one week, and then tell me what you
think of it.
There is definitely a price to be paid for the income and benefits we
enjoy. When I started there in '82, you could look forward to getting off
the line in about 9 years. With productivity improvements and
outsourcing, those days are long gone. Most of us will be on the line
almost our whole career and will retire disabled in one way or another.
I've had surgeries on both my hands. My husband has had skin rashes from
lubricants in the air guns (has been tested at St. Mike's). Not to
mention the mind-numbing nature of the work. Fine; we made the choice to
work there (I have a science degree, but went to GM because it paid better
than contract work for the MNR and because I could forget my job at the
end of the day). GM has allowed us a pretty good life and we've been able
to invest along the way in case our pensions are lost.
There is some "dead wood" in there (as there is anywhere), but they are
few and far between. Most of us work our butts off.
|
Exactly. And that is what some people can not seem to grasp. They think that
you just sit there on your butt all day and do nothing, while making $25 an
hour. Well, I guess it's easy for someone to say its simple work when they
have never done it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hairy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:07 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"The Michael" <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote in message
| Quote: |
I remember hearing in the old days of lunch bags left in oil pans of new
either GM or Ford (maybe both) cars by employees
|
Heh...some people are so gullible, they'll believe anything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:28 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Duh, I have news for you Ford no longer sells the 74 Mustang, The only
Mustangs one can buy at a Ford dealer today is a 2005 and 2006. I own a
new GT Convertible and it is a blast to drive and get 25 MPG to boot. There
is no other convertible on the market that even comes close in size and
power for the price. My GT cost over $5,000 less than what the Toyota and
Chrysler dealers wanted for their convertibles, that have only a V6 that is
driving the wrong set of wheels for a performance vehicle. ;)
mike
"The Michael" <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote in message
news:Xns971A81760C198rdpleitduina@207.115.63.158...
| Quote: | On Sat 26 Nov 2005 08:42:19a, Mike Hunter wrote in
news:kl6dnc1z4vjT6RXeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
Get real, where do you guys come up with this stuff. Having owned a
fleet service company I can tell you every manufacture offers a
discount to fleets that averages between $400 and $600. To be assigned
a fleet discount number the fleet has to have at least five vehicles.
No manufacture can shuffle cars to rental car companies, period.
Manufactures can not sell cars to anyone except their dealers, it
would violate franchise law. Fleets like everybody else buys the
vehicles that they believe to be the best value. Fleets like
individuals must buy their vehicles from franchised dealers. To
retain ones fleet discount numbers, fleets must keep their vehicles in
service for one year or till the introduction date of the next years
models. Ford sells around 80% of corporate fleet sales because they
have proven to be the most cost effective vehicles for corporations.
Unlike rental car companies, were the cars are the 'product' of their
business, corporate fleet vehicles are just another 'tool' used in
their business Corporations look at the total cost over time of
acquisition, insurance, parts, maintance, repair and replacement of
their vehicles and Ford vehicles over the years have been the best in
that regard. . Corporate fleets, generally keep their vehicles in
service for five years or 300k WOF because of federal tax deprecation
laws.
mike
I last bought a Ford in 1974; Mustang with defectively designed engine
recalled after warrantees had expired - they would pay those that had had
engine replaced on their own before warrantee expired and could produce a
receipt. The rest of us lost not only a few thousand in depreciation but
that amount again because we stupidly picked a model with a defectively
designed engine produced by a proud company that felt management's
bonus' came way ahead of any group of customers that stupid.
I think they really earned my "loyalty". I may wait another 30 years
before considering a purchase from Ford.
I remember hearing in the old days of lunch bags left in oil pans of new
either GM or Ford (maybe both) cars by employees, evidently trying to
educate the public on why they should not want to buy this brand. I
thought that education program had historically the most bang for the
buck EVER.
--
Mike |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
Toyota sells just over 10% of the vehicles sold in the US, Honda even less
In total vehicle sales GM sells three times as many in the US as Toyota.
Ford sells more than twice as many and Chrysler sell nearly half again as
many as Toyota. Both GM and Ford sell more light trucks, including SUVs,
than Toyota sells cars and trucks combined. In 2005 GM, Ford and Chrysler
sold around 55% of all the vehicles sold in the US. ALL of the numerous
others from Japan, Europe and Korea sold around 45% combined. Do a search
and educate yourself before you post again on a subject of which you have
little or no knowledge, WBMA.
mike hunt
"Ralph E Lindberg" <n7bsn@callsign.net> wrote in message
news:n7bsn-7B330D.09505426112005@individual.net...
| Quote: | In article <OVOdncRDuZpPHxXeUSdV9g@ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
Were, in your dreams? ;)
Six months sales figures individual vehicles
. Ford F-Series 432,969
. Chevrolet Silverado 322,907
. Dodge Ram pickup 223,609
. Toyota Camry 213,625
. Honda Accord 192,106
. Ford Explorer 168,059
. Honda Civic 162,483
. Ford Taurus 144,035
. Chevrolet Impala 139,460
. Dodge Caravan 131,367
Talk about using figured to lie
Try looking at over all sales.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:43 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
That's strange. I buy a new vehicle every year and find the opposite to be
true
mike
"Hal Whelply" <whelply@cox.net> wrote in message
news:F51if.9921$dv.760@fed1read02...
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:bSednUYrFosR8RXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
... I no longer need to put up with the arrogance of foreign car dealers
who seem to think they are doing me a favor buy letting me buy one of
their overpriced cars...
The dealer experience is one of the main reasons I stick with foreign
brands (though my latest acquisition, a 2006 Subaru Legacy, was built by
Hoosiers in Lafayette, IN). US dealers treat customers like cattle with
checkbooks. I've consistently received more courteous, customer-oriented
service from foreign brand dealers who seem to realize customers are their
"bread and buttter."
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Michael
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:01 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Sat 26 Nov 2005 01:07:06p, Hairy wrote in news:3urq2uFvtn6lU1
@individual.net:
| Quote: |
"The Michael" <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote in message
I remember hearing in the old days of lunch bags left in oil pans of new
either GM or Ford (maybe both) cars by employees
Heh...some people are so gullible, they'll believe anything.
|
Yeah, silly; especially when they read of this stuff in a Detroit newspaper
with no objections apparent from the auto industry ;)
--
Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Michael
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Sat 26 Nov 2005 01:28:00p, Mike Hunter wrote in
news:lYucnaNzZNXeKhXeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
| Quote: | Duh, I have news for you Ford no longer sells the 74 Mustang,
|
:) Duh, I CLEARLY stated that I am not, nor will I be, in the market for
anything Ford sells now or in the future. Anything bad about their
reputation was very likely well earned by them.
That they saved some money by not repairing their faulty designs of the
past (and future?) may, with many other factors, very well help lead to
their future bankruptcy. But in any case, you can be sure that the CEO
and his future family will have many good holiday seasons to come :o
I am sure statistics will show that there are many millions of customers
that have not bought a Ford for several decades and will continue not to
buy. I any event, I remain a deeply disloyal customer of this particular
corporation.
--
Other Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:33 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
The point my friend is why do you want to compare what was on the market
thirty years ago with what is available today?
Surly you don't think the rust buckets Toyotas sold twenty years ago are the
same as what they sell today do you? If that is the case I would never had
bought any of the Toyotas I have owed over the years, based on the absolute
god forsaken Toyopet I owned in the late fifties LOL
mike
"The Michael" <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote in message
news:Xns971A91F7E5F47rdpleitduina@207.115.63.158...
| Quote: | On Sat 26 Nov 2005 01:28:00p, Mike Hunter wrote in
news:lYucnaNzZNXeKhXeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
Duh, I have news for you Ford no longer sells the 74 Mustang,
:) Duh, I CLEARLY stated that I am not, nor will I be, in the market for
anything Ford sells now or in the future. Anything bad about their
reputation was very likely well earned by them.
That they saved some money by not repairing their faulty designs of the
past (and future?) may, with many other factors, very well help lead to
their future bankruptcy. But in any case, you can be sure that the CEO
and his future family will have many good holiday seasons to come :o
I am sure statistics will show that there are many millions of customers
that have not bought a Ford for several decades and will continue not to
buy. I any event, I remain a deeply disloyal customer of this particular
corporation.
mike
--
Other Mike |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eugene Nine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:36 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
MN wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:bSednUYrFosR8RXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Like said your are entitled to you own opinion but I stopped buying
foreign cars some time ago because they cost much more than their
domestic
competitors cars. I have yet to find any of my current, or previous
domestic cars, to be of poor quality. To the contrary, the have all been
well built quality cars that perform as good or better they any foreign
cars I have owned.
Well, I have a 1990 Hyundai Excel that has made 85k miles
without a single major, or minor repair (the fuel pump was
replaced which can be treated as a maintenance item).
Of course this does not mean that Hyundai's of the late
80s, or early 90s are or ever were reliable cars. It seems
I was just extremely lucky! Perhaps you are lucky also.
There is a good point, when an imported vehicle needs something like a fuel |
pump or alternator or starter replaced at less than 100k its considered a
"maintenance item". When I had to replace the fuel pump on my s10 after 12
years and 150,000 miles I was told how unreliable it was and I only had to
replace it because off roading dented the bottom of the tank and years
later it rusted through and the pump started sucking up rust. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Michael
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:14 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
On Sat 26 Nov 2005 02:33:19p, Mike Hunter wrote in
news:1bCcnfmVxdAPWxXeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
| Quote: | The point my friend is why do you want to compare what was on the
market thirty years ago with what is available today?
|
:) That surely wasn't my point (or comparison), but you will never get it.
I agree, LOL
--
Other Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grayfox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:26 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:unUhf.288$HC2.281@trnddc06...
| Quote: | Actually I own a 2002 Olds Silhouette that I paid my hard earned cash
for. I don't hate GM, actually I am very sad about the current situation.
I do have a deep disrespect for the use of thuggery to get your way, and
trashing a co-workers vehicle because you disagree with his or her
purchasing decision is nothing but thuggery.
Friends who only give one praise may help a person *feel* better, but it
is accurate constructive criticism which carries the power to help a
person or organization *be* better.
|
We would certainly welcome your recommendations to help GM *be* better.
You haven't posted such "constructive criticism". Oh, by the way,
input into how a person or organization can *be* better, needn't be
criticism at all. It can be friendly advise, without criticism. Hmm, we
haven't seen that from you either. It might be wise to "practise what
you preach".
| Quote: |
Most of my career was spent making non-Intel microprocessors, but it
never occurred to any of us to destroy the home computer of a co-worker
who bought something with Intel Inside.
|
That's because they didn't park their computers in the company lot every
day to put salt in the wound! *lol* You might have felt differently if
your company had fallen on hard economic times and you had faced the
prospect of being laid off, while your coworkers continued to bring in
their computers with "Intel Inside" every day and flaunted Intel's
superior technology. That's the comparison you have to consider. You
have to walk in the same shoes as the GM employees.
| Quote: |
I could care less what you think you have seen from me. All I see from
you is mindless boosterism and approval of those who use force to get
their way. Sounds like you are just another chest pounding thug. Go
ahead, yell and scream all you want. It will not do you any good and
will probably just contribute to your own poor health. Maybe it is you
who need to "get out of the group". This is just an unmoderated usenet
newsgroup, hardly a special club :).
|
You're right, it's not all about you John. I couldn't agree more. What
made you even think it was? We couldn't give a damn about you and your
"mindless" drivel.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:30 am Post subject:
Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants |
|
|
I did find chicken bones in the air cleaner compartment of a 94 olds cutlass
supreme. It caused no harm and I still use the car as a knock about. Doing
my own minor maintanence, the car has never seen a dealer since I purchased
it. It now has around 150K miles - uses no oil, leaks a little.
--
Jerry
"Hairy" <hairy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3urq2uFvtn6lU1@individual.net...
| Quote: |
"The Michael" <MikeL@ibehere.not> wrote in message
I remember hearing in the old days of lunch bags left in oil pans of new
either GM or Ford (maybe both) cars by employees
Heh...some people are so gullible, they'll believe anything.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in