| Author |
Message |
Ken Weitzel
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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Mike Hunter wrote:
| Quote: | OK I was not entirely correct. They would NOT need to design a trailer for
the LA batteries, they will need to design one for the LA batteries AND an
engine driven generator. Ask Mr. Ohms this question. Why are the 12v
battery and the starter in my V8 Lincoln so much larger then the ones in a
motorcycle, neither one of which needs to motivates the vehicle in question?
Why don't they just use 8 AAA batteries and a starter the size of a
windshield wiper motor? ;)
mike
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Yes! And a recoil starter, just like on my snowblower for when the
batteries get weak! :) :)
Ken
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Ken Weitzel
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:--udnbPxQNvpfhjeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
OK I was not entirely correct. They would NOT need to design a trailer
for
the LA batteries, they will need to design one for the LA batteries AND an
engine driven generator. Ask Mr. Ohms this question. Why are the 12v
battery and the starter in my V8 Lincoln so much larger then the ones in a
motorcycle, neither one of which needs to motivates the vehicle in
question?
Why don't they just use 8 AAA batteries and a starter the size of a
windshield wiper motor? ;)
If AAA carbon batteries could supply the high current needed they would do
it, but if that was the case AAA batteries would be somewhat dangerous to
use
in consumer applications.
You can take 8 AAA nicads, fully charged, and draw an arc with them, though.
(OK, a small one)
Ted
|
Hi...
If one is foolish enough to put 4 AA nimh's in their pocket while
bike riding with their grand daughter, they can burn their leg
terribly painfully, leaving a bad scar :(
Don't ask me how I know that, eh? :) |
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Ted Mittelstaedt
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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"Whoever" <nobody@devnull.none> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0511241949160.2607@localhost.localdomain...
| Quote: |
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
The significant thing here is that in the Prius or other hybrid you
have a complete vehicle chassis with an interior, carpet, seats,
etc. and powertrain that is fully electric. 80% of the work is done
for you in building an electric car, all you have to do is gut the
gas engine and traction battery and the Toyota computer, and
put your own batteries in, configured to supply the power that
the Toyota traction motor requires, and add a charger.
A group of researchers built an interesting mod to a Prius (or some other
hybrid). They added more batteries - but not enough for a long range --
and a charger.
The result was a vehicle that could cope with a short commute using energy
from the overnight charge, while long distances could also be achieved
through the gas engine. The overall fuel economy (and vehicle cost) was
significantly greater than that of the original hybrid, while the range
was grater than that of a 100% battery vehicle.
|
Yes, that was the http://www.edrivesystems.com/ link that I already posted.
Ted
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Coasty
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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One thing is true about any new technology the owners are like the early
pioneers, and you know how you could tell who the poineers were? They were
the ones face down with arrows in there back.
--
Coasty
Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
"NJ Vike" <ErieLackawanna@Scranton.com> wrote in message
news:YBggf.3651$wf.2768@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Here's an interesting article from Car & Driver on the subject:
You may want to read this.
Hybrid issues, and a rising star at Indy.
BY BROCK YATES
September 2005
I'm not exactly a betting man, but I'll give you 100 to 1 odds that if
you're reading this nonsense you are not a hybrid-car owner. That's
probably a good wager, considering that the new miracle vehicles are stuck
at about a one-half-percent market share of the roughly 17 million annual
new car and light-truck domestic sales and that you are vastly more likely
to tear up the asphalt in a gas-swilling, earth-choking, mega-speed road
rocket like the rest of us motorized Neanderthals.
Of course, if we pay attention to the Cassandra-like fulminations of the
liberal media, we might be led to believe that hybrid vehicles are our
only hope to save us all from ozone asphyxiation and indentured slavery to
the Arab oil barons. To ignore their PC incantations and to continue our
binge buying of conventional internal-combustion engines will, according
to these all-knowing scribes and electronic chatterers, doom civilization
to a dark age embroiled in a heat-soaked Sahara.
Yeah, maybe. Then again, maybe not. Yes, we understand the feds are giving
a one-time $2000 tax credit to hybrid owners, and 16 states are offering
come-on tax breaks ($1500 in Oregon, $4173 in Colorado), inspection
exemptions, and single-driver use of HOV lanes as incentives.
Moreover, the hybrids being sold by Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Ford, and, soon,
Chevrolet are all reasonably priced. Example: The hot-selling Toyota
Prius-with a three-month waiting list in most markets-can be purchased for
under $22,000 loaded (although most experts estimate that Toyota is taking
a $2000 hit on each sale). The Pious-oops-Prius costs about $5000 more to
manufacture than a conventional Corolla and retails for about three-grand
extra.
Now let's jump ugly about the whole situation and talk a little reality.
The guys at Edmunds.com, who run hard numbers about the car business as
well as anyone, estimate that a Prius owner would have to drive at least
66,500 miles annually for five straight years, or gasoline would have to
soar to 10 bucks a gallon, to equal the cost of operating a cheaper,
conventional Corolla.
Then we have the battery pack, that heavy lump of nickel-metal hydride
juice boxes that presumably improve fuel efficiency (but not that much,
according to our road tests). Although the warranties are for eight years
or 100,000 miles, battery replacement will cost $5300 for the Toyota and
Lexus hybrids, and the Ford Escape replacements run a whopping $7200.
Moreover, the industry types aren't talking about total battery life. Will
they actually last 100,000 miles? How will this affect resale value? Will
the systems stay at full efficiency, or will they slowly drain power as
they age or operate under heavy use? These are questions that remain to be
answered, understanding that storage batteries, be they dry cells in your
flashlight or exotic Ni-MHs, all have finite lives and store less power
with age.
And now comes word that the computer brain inside the gas-electric grids
in some Priuses is tending to go nuts. This causes instant blackout
stalling at either 35 mph or 65 mph-the latter possibly in the fast lane
of an interstate where 50-ton semis running 90 mph can crush compacts like
beer cans.
This brings up an undiscussed issue: At some point, all these hybrid
batteries will die and have to be disposed of somewhere, somehow. These
are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled vegetables. They are in fact
self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where millions of these
poisonous boxes will be deposited in the new hybrid nirvana has yet to be
considered, much less resolved.
And speaking of the environmental component (the glamour issue centered on
the brave new world of hybrids), a number of EMT and fire crews have
announced that they will refuse to rescue victims trapped in such
vehicles, openly fearing electrocution or fatal acid burns.
As with the now-defunct electric-car miracle, where it was quickly
realized that the national power grid could not energize millions of
vehicles without massive expansion of horrors-nuclear generation-the dark
side of the hybrid miracle is now beginning to surface.
Says a dealer friend whose immense franchise network includes several
brands offering hybrids: "There is no advantage to owning a hybrid in
terms of fuel mileage when the extra cost of the vehicle is added in.
Period. Do the math. This is a feel-good purchase. Hybrids are a statement
about the environment, and they simply do not square with economic
reality.
"The truth is, although the Prius is selling like mad, hybrid Honda
Accords and Civics are backed up on dealer lots. Why? Because they look
like conventional Hondas, whereas the Prius has unique styling. It has an
iconic status among the Greenies. Like it or not, that's real life."
Until hybrids become economically feasible in terms of cost, reliability,
and valid fuel savings and make real sense regarding performance and
disposability, we're going to be driving conventional
internal-combustion-powered vehicles-either gas or diesel -until rogue
asteroids clean us all out.
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Bill Putney
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
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Ken Weitzel wrote:
| Quote: | If one is foolish enough to put 4 AA nimh's in their pocket while
bike riding with their grand daughter, they can burn their leg
terribly painfully, leaving a bad scar :(
Don't ask me how I know that, eh? :)
|
To paraphrase Mae West: "Is that a pair of C-cells in your pocket or are
you just happy to see me?"
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
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Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
LOL
mike
"Ken Weitzel" <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Cgwhf.607144$1i.367415@pd7tw2no...
| Quote: |
Mike Hunter wrote:
OK I was not entirely correct. They would NOT need to design a trailer
for the LA batteries, they will need to design one for the LA batteries
AND an engine driven generator. Ask Mr. Ohms this question. Why are the
12v battery and the starter in my V8 Lincoln so much larger then the ones
in a motorcycle, neither one of which needs to motivates the vehicle in
question? Why don't they just use 8 AAA batteries and a starter the size
of a windshield wiper motor? ;)
mike
Yes! And a recoil starter, just like on my snowblower for when the
batteries get weak! :) :)
Ken
|
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Bill Putney
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
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Mike Hunter wrote:
| Quote: | Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
LOL
mike
|
Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this,
but when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that
the Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their
own electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if
the starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also,
in some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a
larger main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such
a system).
Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C-
or D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a
big enough lever and i can move the earth." :)
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') |
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Mark Olson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
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Bill Putney wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Hunter wrote:
Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the car?
LOL
mike
Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this,
but when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that
the Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their
own electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if
the starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also,
in some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a
larger main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such
a system).
Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C-
or D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a
big enough lever and i can move the earth." :)
|
Google for "Coffman Cartridge"
http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:34 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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What will you use for a fulcrum? ;)
mike
"Mark Olson" <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in message
news:11oeeto670j0q44@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | Bill Putney wrote:
Mike Hunter wrote:
Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the
car? LOL
mike
Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this, but
when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that the
Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their own
electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if the
starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also, in
some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a larger
main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such a
system).
Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C- or
D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a big
enough lever and i can move the earth." :)
Google for "Coffman Cartridge"
http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm |
|
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| Back to top |
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Dave
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:20 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
|
Whoever wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
The significant thing here is that in the Prius or other hybrid you
have a complete vehicle chassis with an interior, carpet, seats,
etc. and powertrain that is fully electric. 80% of the work is done
for you in building an electric car, all you have to do is gut the
gas engine and traction battery and the Toyota computer, and
put your own batteries in, configured to supply the power that
the Toyota traction motor requires, and add a charger.
A group of researchers built an interesting mod to a Prius (or some other
hybrid). They added more batteries - but not enough for a long range --
and a charger.
The result was a vehicle that could cope with a short commute using energy
from the overnight charge, while long distances could also be achieved
through the gas engine. The overall fuel economy (and vehicle cost) was
significantly greater than that of the original hybrid, while the range
was grater than that of a 100% battery vehicle.
|
I recently saw a print article about this topic, not sure if this is
the full thing, but quite interesting to me.
http://www.sdreader.com/php/cover.php?mode=article&showpg=1&id=20051020
"The chassis that's sitting in a workroom on the campus of San Diego
State University is painted a shade of red you'd expect to see on the
lips of an attention-starved woman. On a car, the color conjures up
speed, sass, and power. But this car's looks are deceptive. Although
it can blast from a standstill to 60 miles per hour in less than five
seconds, a single gallon of fuel can propel the vehicle 80 miles. The
engine is augmented by a battery-powered motor, which can be recharged
by plugging a cord into an ordinary wall socket. And the engine fuel?
You can run it on diesel if that's convenient. But soybean oil works
just as well."
"San Diego State University Professor Jim Burns says people have asked
him where they could buy a car like this. "Nowhere," he has to say.
When Burns and his team of engineering students designed and built the
car -- which they called the "Enigma" -- they weren't trying to develop
a commercial product. Instead they wanted to prove that it was possible
to make an automobile that used no fossil fuels, got phenomenal
mileage, and looked and performed like a race car. Four years later,
Burns and a new team of students are attempting to transform
Chevrolet's Equinox into the kind of SUV even an environmentalist could
love. Their work is part of the Challenge X competition, which is being
cosponsored by General Motors and the Department of Energy. Theirs is
one of 17 teams, and hardly among the front-runners."
The team's site is at:
http://www.engineering.sdsu.edu/~hev/index.htm
Dave |
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Bill Putney
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:04 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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Hey - haven't you ever heard the experession "Don't sweat the small
stuff"? Don't bother me with details. :)
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
Mike Hunter wrote:
| Quote: | What will you use for a fulcrum? ;)
mike
"Mark Olson" <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in message
news:11oeeto670j0q44@corp.supernews.com...
Bill Putney wrote:
Mike Hunter wrote:
Would the pull cord be long enough to start the motor from inside the
car? LOL
mike
Heh heh! I don't know if the big diesel manufacturers still do this, but
when I was a kid, I remember being told (probably by my dad) that the
Caterpillar scraper engines used small gasoline engines (with their own
electric starter of course) to start the main engine. Not sure if the
starter engines were one lungers or something bigger. I think also, in
some large engines, electric motors spin up a flywheel to start a larger
main engine (some WWII aircraft engines sound as if they use such a
system).
Theoretically you could probably transfer the total energy of a few C- or
D- cells into such a flywheel system (or a large capacitor for that
matter) over a minute or two - use them once, then throw them away. Not
sure if a handful of AA's have the total energy necessary. "Give me a big
enough lever and i can move the earth." :)
Google for "Coffman Cartridge"
http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm |
|
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| Back to top |
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Bill Putney
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:09 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
|
Grayfox wrote:
| Quote: | ...You two could drive old people to fornicate!
|
That seems kind of weird, but if our discussion helped you fire up the
ol' "number one spark plug" again, then glad we could help. The
centerfolds aren't working for you anymore? :)
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x') |
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| Back to top |
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Ted Mittelstaedt
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
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|
"Bill Putney" <bptn@kinez.net> wrote in message
news:dm78qp$sv4$1@news.isdn.net...
| Quote: | Ken Weitzel wrote:
If one is foolish enough to put 4 AA nimh's in their pocket while
bike riding with their grand daughter, they can burn their leg
terribly painfully, leaving a bad scar :(
Don't ask me how I know that, eh? :)
To paraphrase Mae West: "Is that a pair of C-cells in your pocket or are
you just happy to see me?"
|
She electrified him.
Ted |
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Spam Hater
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
|
In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0511241949160.2607@localhost.localdomain>,
Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
| Quote: | A group of researchers built an interesting mod to a Prius (or some other
hybrid). They added more batteries - but not enough for a long range --
and a charger.
The result was a vehicle that could cope with a short commute using energy
from the overnight charge, while long distances could also be achieved
through the gas engine. The overall fuel economy (and vehicle cost) was
significantly greater than that of the original hybrid, while the range
was grater than that of a 100% battery vehicle.
|
Good idea.
Including the cost of electricity to charge it? |
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Ript
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament |
|
|
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in
news:3GednWCNUq_66BreUSdV9g@ptd.net:
| Quote: | What will you use for a fulcrum? ;)
mike
|
the moon of course :) |
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