Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

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Ted 'defend me and be a c
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:14:41 -0500, necromancer
<necromancer@kretp.tmy> was understood to have stated the following:

Quote:

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE, <xeton2001@yahoo.com> was motivated to
say this in rec.autos.driving on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 03:49:23 GMT:
I'm not talking about getting rid of steel just getting rid of all the
useless expensive gadgets. Forget the AC, PS, PB, electric seats and
windows. Leave out the radio-CD player and garbage like the trunk
light...

and emergency brakes and tires with thread....

and speedometers....

--

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity:

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy":
Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event.
Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6>

Bob
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Still no free lunch!

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:qYqdnWTdGPsqyR_enZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@texas.net...

Quote:

where DID that turbine heat go?

Out the tailpipe, but don't confuse "heat" with "temperature."

Suppose you have a piston engine and a gas turbine engine that both put
out the same amount of power and are the same efficiency. That implies
that they both have to shed exactly the same amount of waste heat energy.
For the piston engine, much of the waste heat goes out the radiator, a
little bit out the oil pan, and a fair amount out the exhaust pipe. OK,
for the turbine almost all of it goes out the tailpipe because there IS no
radiator. But the exhaust isn't any hotter, because the turbine pumps so
much excess air through its exhaust. IOW, it puts out a much bigger volume
of exhaust (much of it just hot air)

IOW a turbine is much like Stern.....

necromancer
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE, <xeton2001@yahoo.com> was motivated to
say this in rec.autos.driving on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 03:49:23 GMT:

Quote:

and emergency brakes and tires with thread....

--
"My tars have been bald for two years.
Every month i glue some sandpaper to them and
everythings cool."

--Laura Buch murdered her boyfriend
/ laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE 10/25/05

Message ID: s2ttl1tgnpq5pr6p48lr111p3lnvr4blch@4ax.com
http://tinyurl.com/7p7xq

necromancer
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE, <xeton2001@yahoo.com> was motivated to
say this in rec.autos.driving on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 03:43:52 GMT:

Quote:

I change the oil every 1500 miles and grease the front end every 1000.
And i change the air filter and plugs and rotor/cap every 10k or so.
That's what i'm talking about.

How's that emergency brake doing, psycho??

--
Get back under your bridge, troll!

"Hey stupid - I've tried to fix it and i can't. The cable adjusting
nuts are rusted solid."
--Laura Bush - Vehicular Homicide (a.k.a. Laura Bush murdered her
boyfriend, Pride of America, aunt millie and Judy Dairya,
among others. See: http://tinyurl.com/ahphj),
6 Apr 2005 11:05:54 -0700
Ref: or9851dpb7a4s8fduf7bf83gab02t9u...@4ax.com
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/8exv3

Brent P
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

In article <dlucp5$q6r$1@news.isdn.net>, Bill Putney wrote:

Quote:

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote:

...And i change the air filter and plugs and rotor/cap every 10k or so.
That's what i'm talking about...

New plugs, rotor, and cap every 10k? That's not very smart.

Especially when using a flashlight to see the gauges and all the other
things that are let go.

Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:50:08 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com
wrote:

Have people learning nothing from cell phones and laptop computers where
failure to take a charge rechargeable batteries are often the death
sentence?

John

Ever hear of proofreading??

What would you know about the subject, faggot?

--

Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend (Xeton2001@yahoo.com)'s words of
wisdom, love, and respect (spelling and grammatical errors left intact)

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. I get
RESPECT now.
:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote:

Quote:

On 21 Nov 2005 15:16:32 -0800, ILoveMySUV.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com
wrote:

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
necromancer wrote:
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend, <xeton2001@yahoo.com> was motivated
to say this in rec.autos.driving on 21 Nov 2005 09:35:24 -0800:
Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

intro to business lesson

Then why don't they?

Cause they make more selling the $50,000 cars with all sorts of
useless gadgets. You think they sell AC and CD players and electric
seats at cost??

Have a good weekend at the bath house, pud licker?

Thank you for addressing the issue.

Just waiting for you to address it, homo.

--

Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend (Xeton2001@yahoo.com)'s words of
wisdom, love, and respect (spelling and grammatical errors left intact)

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. I get
RESPECT now.
:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote:

Quote:

On 21 Nov 2005 10:44:27 -0800, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com
wrote:

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
out all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

What the fuck would you know about routain maintenance, Mr. Drive a POS
vehicle with bald tires and no dash lights?

I change the oil every 1500 miles and grease the front end every 1000.
And i change the air filter and plugs and rotor/cap every 10k or so.
That's what i'm talking about. My present vehicle has 190K on it and
is as happy as a republican at a bathhouse.

Speaking at republicans at bath houses, remember this quote from one of
your posts, faggot?

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie. I get
RESPECT now.
:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Scott en Aztlán
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On 21 Nov 2005 12:58:30 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
<xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:

necromancer wrote:
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend, <xeton2001@yahoo.com> was motivated
to say this in rec.autos.driving on 21 Nov 2005 09:35:24 -0800:
Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

intro to business lesson

Then why don't they?

Because they are too saddled with pension and health care obligations
thanks to Organized Labor.

Quote:

Cause they make more selling the $50,000 cars with all sorts of
useless gadgets. You think they sell AC and CD players and electric
seats at cost??

Don't forget the most useless gadgets of all: alarm systems...

laura bush - VEHICULAR HO
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:50:08 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Quote:

Have people learning nothing from cell phones and laptop computers where
failure to take a charge rechargeable batteries are often the death
sentence?

John

Ever hear of proofreading??

laura bush - VEHICULAR HO
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:11:50 -0500, Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu>
wrote:

Quote:

In article <1132594524.171967.66920@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
xeton2001@yahoo.com says...
The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
out all the useless crap.

Holy shit, you are making sense.

Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

Then right on cue, you do a 180 and starting talking out of your ass.
I suggest you go to China and drive an $8000 car. I think you will be
unpleasantly surprised.

Replacing steel with other materials could help bring the weight of cars
down, but the price is not going be anywhere near $8k.
---------------
Alex

I'm not talking about getting rid of steel just getting rid of all the
useless expensive gadgets. Forget the AC, PS, PB, electric seats and
windows. Leave out the radio-CD player and garbage like the trunk
light and the notorious windshield washer fluid guage.

Cars could be so much simpler than they are and they would cost much
less and with fewer problems. But GM Ford, toyota and honda work
together as a monopoly to give us this overpriced junk.

laura bush - VEHICULAR HO
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On 21 Nov 2005 10:44:27 -0800, "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Quote:

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
The whole idea of hybrids is stupid. Just make cars smaller and leave
out all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

What the fuck would you know about routain maintenance, Mr. Drive a POS
vehicle with bald tires and no dash lights?

I change the oil every 1500 miles and grease the front end every 1000.
And i change the air filter and plugs and rotor/cap every 10k or so.
That's what i'm talking about. My present vehicle has 190K on it and
is as happy as a republican at a bathhouse.

Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE wrote:

Quote:

Just maintaining your low standards, semen slurper.

Ted 'defend me and be a c
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:58:23 GMT, Spam Hater <iHate@spam.net> was
understood to have stated the following:

Quote:

In article <9o45o1lemcula40k16b5gkp6qfhfvno2eh@4ax.com>,
laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I change the oil every 1500 miles
Too soon.
and grease the front end every 1000.
Very frequent.
And i change the air filter and plugs and rotor/cap every 10k or so.
Too frequent for the plugs.
That's what i'm talking about. My present vehicle has 190K on it and
is as happy as a republican at a bathhouse.

Your current vehicle must be very old to require such frequent oil and
plug changes. If it isn't old you're wasting the environment.

Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend (Xeton2001@yahoo.com)'s words of
wisdom, love, and respect (spelling and grammatical errors left
intact)

Even a safety nut like me doesn't carry things that far.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c24964a9d26bba6d?hl=en&

My tars have been bald for two years. Every month i glue some
sandpaper to them and everythings cool - as long as you drive slow and
sensible.
: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/d0d9405ce0464706?hl=en&

Driving twenty year old beaters doesn't keep me up to date. Anyway
it's a stupid idea.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/ff331395cfc7b81b?hl=en

My dash lights burned out years ago.
: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/1edbd9e8ee94fa7a?

Yes, but never deliberately. In fact i got a speeding ticket about 5
years ago for doing 41 in a 25. I just about kicked the cops teeth in
cause i was sure he was lying. No way the SL on this wide open stretch
could be 25, i thought. Turns out the cop was right. No complaints
from me then. I should have known the law.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.autos/msg/b140009050c624a9

STFU YOU HATEFILLED TROLL.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/msg/4bafc59af1481a15?hl=en

I'm the troll here dood.
: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/15b11b019363dee4?hl=en&

I'm the troll here.
: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.golf/msg/d6c3bc1eb365fc67?hl=en&

Fork you, beyatch. I'm the greatest troll that ever lived!!!!
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/msg/8316b755126bd447

Being a troll is an honorable life.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/c795f38d501be2d8?hl=en&

--

"Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend" brags of it's homosexuallity:

the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd649fb?hl=en

Joshua Calvert <joshua_l_calvert@hotmail.com> demonstrates his lack of understanding of the terms "sarcasm", "irony", and "hypocrisy":
Poor rightard, forced to whine about an 40 year old event.
Message-ID: <Xns970A68202F1C5joshualcalverthotmai@68.6.19.6>

Ted Mittelstaedt
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.63.0511211139020.28586@alumni.engin.umich.edu...

Quote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, NJ Vike quoted from Car & Driver:

Although the warranties are for eight years or 100,000 miles, battery
replacement will cost $5300 for the Toyota and Lexus hybrids, and the
Ford Escape replacements run a whopping $7200. Moreover, the industry
types aren't talking about total battery life. Will they actually last
100,000 miles?

No. My officemate has an '03 Honda Civic hybrid. It started giving
problems on his way from Montreal to Toronto. The Integrated Motor Assist
system went offline, which also meant the SLI battery (Starting, Lighting,
Ignition -- the conventional 12v item under the hood) was not being
charged. When he limped into the parking lot, his SLI battery read 9.9v.

Towed to the dealer, who after three days gave the diagnostic report: The
traction battery's dead. Good thing the battery warranty is 6 years,
otherwise it'd be a C$8,000+ event. Dealer claims this is the first-ever
failure of a traction battery in a Honda hybrid of any year or model,
anywhere in the world (Sure, right...) and that a new traction battery has
to be brought in from Japan, which will take AT LEAST three weeks.

Of course, there are multiple different issues going on here. There's the
car problem itself, then there's the dealer's fairy tales. I can think of
half a dozen courier companies that'll happily get a package from Japan to
North America in a matter of a couple of days, so that shoots the "three
weeks to come from Japan" theory all to hell. And if this were indeed the
very first-ever instance of this heretofore unheard-of failure in one of
Honda's high-profile, high-PR-value enviro models, one would think the
company would be falling all over itself to make the repair as quickly as
possible to keep the customer as quiet as possible about it.

How will this affect resale value?

Pah. What resale value? This kind of traction battery failure does NOT
bode well for the durability of these cars. Sure, it's covered under his
battery warranty. The new replacement battery does not reset the battery
warranty clock. What about in 5 years? They are disposable cars. 10 years
*tops*. More like "end of warranty plus time to next failure".

Hold on there Daniel!

The battery industry is well able to come up with aftermarket replacement
batteries for these cars. They aren't doing so now because there's no
demand
for them - because the warranties are all still in effect.

The dollar values of these battery packs are funny money, they are
accounting
fictions. Since the automakers pays for the warranty replacement of the
battery, the automakers can price them however they want.

Consider for a moment this scenario. Honda could have figured out
even before commencing manufacture that the battery pack will fail
at least 1 time under warranty. We also know that Honda is probably
losing $2,000 on every new hybrid they manufacture.

So Honda decided to engage in a bit of creative accounting. In order to
minimize the loss on each car that they manufacture, they understate the
actual cost of the battey pack by $2000. Thus while the real dollar
amount they are losing on every new car is $4,000, because the
battery pack is underestimated, the loss looks less than it is really.

Now, they have to get the money for these understated batteries
somewhere. That's where the overinflated $8000 warranty battery
comes in. Because it's a warranty, Honda can argue next year
to it's stockholders that they didn't know warranty costs on the hybrids
would be so high, thus their profits are down. In the meantime the
$8000 warranty batteries are actually subsidizing the cost of the
new batteries.

You have to assume that Honda's and Toyota's stockholders will
tolerate some loss on hybrids, as a skunkworks market. But
they won't tolerate it for very long, and they won't tolerate it
if it's pretty massive. If the loss gets to high the investors will
force those companies to jettison hybrid production. So if Honda's
managers want to continue building and losing money on hybrids,
they are going to have to do some creative accounting tricks
to hide some of the losses on these cars. Pushing the loss out
of the manufacturing cost bucket and into the warranty claims
bucket is one of these tricks.

Quote:

This brings up an undiscussed issue: At some point, all these hybrid
batteries will die and have to be disposed of somewhere, somehow. These
are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled vegetables. They are in fact
self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where millions of these
poisonous boxes will be deposited in the new hybrid nirvana has yet to
be considered, much less resolved.

NiMH batteries are indeed hair-raisingly toxic and expensive to
reclaim/recycle. Once no longer in the dealer chain, they will simply get
tossed -- along with the rest of the car.

Why are you thinking that these cars batteries are going to be replaced
by NiMH? My guess is the aftermarket battery industry will come out
with a lead acid gel cell conventional technology retrofit battery for these
cars, that will cost a quarter of the NiMH. Obviously the fuel mileage will
suffer but not a lot, and the battery industry is under no obligation to
manufacture a part that will retain the existing mileage. All that would
probably need to be done is a reprogrammed battery computer to
be installed that will properly maintain charge on a lead acid pack.

Ted

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