| Author |
Message |
James C. Reeves
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:28 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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"Jake" <jak2@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:brgsn11b75b05s3hdeg2gbt8mvn1ra5si6@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I guess if GM had a fix for the gasket.dex-coolant problem they would
have done so by now.
but I have not heard of any , so I figure it's not a good time to do
a trade in for a new gm auto...
|
If the Dexcool is contributing to the degrading the gaskets, why is GM still
using Dexcool? Their competitors seem to be doing fine with the green
stuff. What is the value add, I guess is the question?
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:23 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:X--
| Quote: | If the Dexcool is contributing to the degrading the gaskets, why is GM
still
using Dexcool? Their competitors seem to be doing fine with the green
stuff. What is the value add, I guess is the question?
|
The story that DexCool is at fault is largely an urban legend. There IS a
problem,
but it may not be DexCool |
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:Vfuff.14736$BZ5.6387@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:X--
If the Dexcool is contributing to the degrading the gaskets, why is GM
still
using Dexcool? Their competitors seem to be doing fine with the green
stuff. What is the value add, I guess is the question?
The story that DexCool is at fault is largely an urban legend. There IS a
problem,
but it may not be DexCool
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I see. Are there other advantages to DexCool? If so, I wonder why everyone
isn't using it in their new cars.
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aarcuda69062
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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In article <S76dnSli1tnYrBzeRVn-pA@comcast.com>,
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:Vfuff.14736$BZ5.6387@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:X--
If the Dexcool is contributing to the degrading the gaskets, why is GM
still
using Dexcool? Their competitors seem to be doing fine with the green
stuff. What is the value add, I guess is the question?
The story that DexCool is at fault is largely an urban legend. There IS a
problem,
but it may not be DexCool
I see. Are there other advantages to DexCool? If so, I wonder why everyone
isn't using it in their new cars.
|
You haven't been paying attention.
The Asians have been using coolant similar to Dexcool's OAT for
quite some time, Ford and Chrysler are using a hybrid version of
the Dexcool OAT inhibitor package also. |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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aarcuda69062 wrote:
| Quote: |
You haven't been paying attention.
The Asians have been using coolant similar to Dexcool's OAT for
quite some time, Ford and Chrysler are using a hybrid version of
the Dexcool OAT inhibitor package also.
|
The big controversy seems to be about the use of the plasticizer 2-EHA
as one of the components of Dexcool. A plasticizer softens plastics and
apparently can do so with some of the seal materials in vehicles.
None of the other OAT or HOAT type coolants use 2-EHA, it is unique to
Dexcool.
John |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gCmgf.4144$Nx2.856@trnddc09...
| Quote: | The big controversy seems to be about the use of the plasticizer 2-EHA
as one of the components of Dexcool. A plasticizer softens plastics and
apparently can do so with some of the seal materials in vehicles.
None of the other OAT or HOAT type coolants use 2-EHA, it is unique to
Dexcool.
John
|
2-ethylhexylacetate is an oil soluble liquid. It is not, I believe, used in
DexCool
It is a solvent and would have a limited application as a plasticizer. We
used to
use it to dissolve very special compounds which wouldnt dissolve in much of
anything else. It would certainly damage elastomeric seals, etc, if it were
used
in DexCool. It wouldn't be soluble in water.
I suspect your 2-EHA may be 2-ethylhexanoic acid .It IS one of
the Organic Acids which is patented to use in OAT technology. It would be
used as the neutralized salt, not the acid form.
Common plasticizers are usually things like 2-ethylhexyladipate or
di-2-ethylhexylphthalate.These are added to plastics (like dashboards, etc)
to
keep them soft and pliant. When they cook out of the elastomer, this is
that
oily film you see on the inside of the windshield. |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
| Quote: | 2-ethylhexylacetate is an oil soluble liquid. It is not, I believe, used in
DexCool
It is a solvent and would have a limited application as a plasticizer. We
used to
use it to dissolve very special compounds which wouldnt dissolve in much of
anything else. It would certainly damage elastomeric seals, etc, if it were
used
in DexCool. It wouldn't be soluble in water.
I suspect your 2-EHA may be 2-ethylhexanoic acid .It IS one of
the Organic Acids which is patented to use in OAT technology. It would be
used as the neutralized salt, not the acid form.
Common plasticizers are usually things like 2-ethylhexyladipate or
di-2-ethylhexylphthalate.These are added to plastics (like dashboards, etc)
to
keep them soft and pliant. When they cook out of the elastomer, this is
that
oily film you see on the inside of the windshield.
|
There are numerous articles available which talk about the 2-EHA issue,
such as this one in Motor magazine.
http://gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=MOTORCoolantFeature.pdf&folder=brochure
John |
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:45 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oFIgf.320$Dx3.71@trnddc07...
Good article, thanks. If Ford, Honda, Toyota and Chrysler have all
seemingly documented problems they found when testing DexCool and causing
gasket failure problems in their engines (and GM seemingly having more than
their fair share of gasket problems), do you think GM is looking at DexCool
as part of the equation? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:23 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oFIgf.320$Dx3.71@trnddc07...
folder=brochure
Of course there are... And in my previous posts I have mentioned some of the
problems with
an all purpose inhibitor for these types of systems.
A 'science writer' apparently wrote this article. While I am no fan of
DexCool, there are some
chemical inaccuracies....And, the science is very complicated, even for the
professional in these
areas.
2-ethylhexyl acid, alone, is not normally used as a plasticizer. Its esters
may be, but it is not
a premier application. As the sodium or potassium salt, 2-EH acid is a
'soap'. Totally water
soluble, and not likely to attack elastomers.
The problem is more complicated than can be explained by trying to
incriminate one single
component. |
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John Horner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
|
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HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
| Quote: | "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oFIgf.320$Dx3.71@trnddc07...
There are numerous articles available which talk about the 2-EHA issue,
such as this one in Motor magazine.
http://gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=MOTORCoolantFeature.pdf&
folder=brochure
John
Of course there are... And in my previous posts I have mentioned some of the
problems with
an all purpose inhibitor for these types of systems.
A 'science writer' apparently wrote this article. While I am no fan of
DexCool, there are some
chemical inaccuracies....And, the science is very complicated, even for the
professional in these
areas.
2-ethylhexyl acid, alone, is not normally used as a plasticizer. Its esters
may be, but it is not
a premier application. As the sodium or potassium salt, 2-EH acid is a
'soap'. Totally water
soluble, and not likely to attack elastomers.
The problem is more complicated than can be explained by trying to
incriminate one single
component.
|
OK, chill out. The spirit of my original response is this: Even though
other makers are starting to use OAT technology for their vehicle
coolants, they are not using the same formula as Dexcool and have
objected strongly to the use of Dexcool in their non-GM vehicles.
I was responding to a post which implied that all the automakers are
going to a Dexcool style coolant, which is not the case.
Personally I was surprised to find brown sludge in the coolant recovery
bottle of our Olds minivan when it was still less than two years old and
under 20,000 miles of moderate weather use (No. California). Something
GM did with that vehicle was certainly less than optimum. I flushed
everything out, bought a new Stant radiator cap (GM is recommending the
aftermarket Stant instead of the original AC-Delco part!) and refilled
with Prestone's version of Dexcool. So far at 60,000 miles it hasn't
sludged up again. Luckily I maintain our vehicles carefully and
noticed the brown goo in the coolant recovery tank. Most people would
believe the five year service interval and never give it a close look!
John |
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Jake
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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wonder if gm will send me the $1035.00 I had to pay to replace the
gasket in my Impalla 2000. the dex-coolant was leaking into the oil...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:45:55 -0500, "James C. Reeves"
<jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oFIgf.320$Dx3.71@trnddc07...
HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
There are numerous articles available which talk about the 2-EHA issue,
such as this one in Motor magazine.
http://gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=MOTORCoolantFeature.pdf&folder=brochure
John
Good article, thanks. If Ford, Honda, Toyota and Chrysler have all
seemingly documented problems they found when testing DexCool and causing
gasket failure problems in their engines (and GM seemingly having more than
their fair share of gasket problems), do you think GM is looking at DexCool
as part of the equation?
|
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aarcuda69062
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
|
|
In article <FjTgf.1986$SE2.226@trnddc04>,
John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I was responding to a post which implied that all the automakers are
going to a Dexcool style coolant, which is not the case.
|
That is NOT what I posted, please go back and reread from the
post where Mr. Reeves erroneously states that other manufacturers
are still using "green" coolant (they aren't). |
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John Horner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
|
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Jake wrote:
| Quote: | wonder if gm will send me the $1035.00 I had to pay to replace the
gasket in my Impalla 2000. the dex-coolant was leaking into the oil...
|
This seems to be a design problem with the 3.4l family of V-6 engines
more than a Dexcool problem. Whatever it is, you have a right to be
furious with GM since whatever the problem is, they caused it.
Millions of 3.4l V-6 engine owners have joined the
never-another-GM-product club.
John |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
|
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FjTgf.1986$SE2.226@trnddc04...
| Quote: | OK, chill out. The spirit of my original response is this: Even though
other makers are starting to use OAT technology for their vehicle
coolants, they are not using the same formula as Dexcool and have
objected strongly to the use of Dexcool in their non-GM vehicles.
I was responding to a post which implied that all the automakers are
going to a Dexcool style coolant, which is not the case.
Personally I was surprised to find brown sludge in the coolant recovery
bottle of our Olds minivan when it was still less than two years old and
under 20,000 miles of moderate weather use (No. California). Something
GM did with that vehicle was certainly less than optimum. I flushed
everything out, bought a new Stant radiator cap (GM is recommending the
aftermarket Stant instead of the original AC-Delco part!) and refilled
with Prestone's version of Dexcool. So far at 60,000 miles it hasn't
sludged up again. Luckily I maintain our vehicles carefully and
noticed the brown goo in the coolant recovery tank. Most people would
believe the five year service interval and never give it a close look!
John
|
I definitely agree with you on some issues. GM has done a shitteaux job on
a lot of things in the last few years, DexCool being one of them. They have
so
many different engine issues that it is hard to keep control of them.
I just had to replace the plenum on our 3800 Gen II, and am pissed.. Sorry
assed
engineering, worse customer support.
We are near to the point to buy a new car and I am caught with few
alternatives.
I cannot support crappola GM product development with more money down the
drain. And I consider Ford a four letter word.
I dont want any more shi**ing computer modules, or engines that fall apart,
or
gaskets that leak, or plastic plenums that decompose, etc.
I want a quiet and economical car that is comfortable on the road. I dont
want to
have to pay $2-3000 for a dammittohell transmission overhaul before I get
100k
on it. Nor do I want 48 microprocessors integrated into everything
including the
sunvisors, vents, etc. I dont want any more leaking air conditioning
compressors,
or weak sister alternators.
Just a simple quiet smooth running car.
And if GM cant do it, they can close every factory in the whole world and go
fishing
as far as I am concerned. |
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Jake
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:54 am Post subject:
Re: Dex coolant |
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Same here, never again... not even as a gift.. The sooner GM
files for chapter 11 bankruptcy the better.
the quality of their auto products are pathetic. Now I figure GM is
finally getting what it deserves...
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:07:51 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Jake wrote:
wonder if gm will send me the $1035.00 I had to pay to replace the
gasket in my Impalla 2000. the dex-coolant was leaking into the oil...
This seems to be a design problem with the 3.4l family of V-6 engines
more than a Dexcool problem. Whatever it is, you have a right to be
furious with GM since whatever the problem is, they caused it.
Millions of 3.4l V-6 engine owners have joined the
never-another-GM-product club.
John |
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