| Author |
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Alistair J Murray
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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John Carrier wrote:
| Quote: | "Alistair J Murray" <news@fluffy.f9.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gp0l43-0pg.ln1@florin.fluffy...
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[...]
| Quote: | You also get the 280bhp I6 B10 3.3, with optional 6-speed manual...
My ideal would be the M3 engine, slightly detuned, 6sp and about a
3.46 diff. It could be done, but not inexpensively.
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A B10 3.3 is close, seems it's just 5-speed though...
| Quote: | Then again, Alpina does not offer their mods inexpensively.
Wonderful cars, improving upon "very good" to near perfection ... but
not cheap.
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....Unless you buy a second hand one:
http://tinyurl.com/bfong
....and there are some B10 V8s for even less.
The only trouble with ALPINAs is their addictiveness. 8)
A
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bfd
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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I think the issue isn't that the 540i is too front heavy but that the
overall car is heavier and thus, not as nimble. Some say the rack and
pinion found only on the six cyl. cars helps alot in making the 530i
*feel* faster in a tight course too.
Of course, if you want torque, forget it! Get the 540i and enjoy! |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:05 am Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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bfd wrote:
| Quote: | I think the issue isn't that the 540i is too front heavy but that the
overall car is heavier and thus, not as nimble. Some say the rack and
pinion found only on the six cyl. cars helps alot in making the 530i
*feel* faster in a tight course too.
Of course, if you want torque, forget it! Get the 540i and enjoy!
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I'm with you there. A lot of torque will make up for a little extra
weight in the acceleration department anyday. But not in the handling...
--
-Fred W
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John Carrier
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:10 am Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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"Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*spam-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote in message
news:JpCdnYtQ-LtaC-XeRVn-tQ@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | John Carrier wrote:
"bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131834567.878377.89030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Some think the E39 530i with 5 speed manual trans and sport suspension
was "better" than the 540i because BMW used rack and pinion steering
instead of the worm and gear drive found on the 540i. They felt tha
tthe 530i could outcorner the 540.
With comparable tires, likely. Not so much the steering, but the simple
matter of weight. The 530 is lighter on its feet. Most of the 540's
weight is on the front tires, which tends to emphasize understeer.
I have often heard repeated this statement (about the eights being front
heavy) but cannot find any supporting evidence that it is true. Certainly
the added weight of the larger engine is a handicap in handling. About
250 lbs of difference in curb weight between the E39 3 liter six and 4.4
liter eight. But the engineers moved things around in their designs to
try to retain the 50/50 weight bias that BMWs are famed for regardless of
the total.
I can't find and weight distribution specs on the E39, but from the BMW NA
site info is available for the "current-day" 5 series. A 530i weighs
3,472 lbs with a 50.8% / 49.2% (F/R) weight distribution. A 550i that
weighs 3803 lbs total (331 lbs heavier) has a 51.3% / 48.7% F/R weight.
So while the modern 530i is 55 lbs heavier on the rear axle than the
front, the 550i is 91 lbs heavier on the rear than the front. The total
difference between the two of 36 lbs is hardly significant. Throw a small
gym bag in the trunk and you are all square.
|
For the E39 auto (2003 brochure)
530i 3549 50.9/49.1
540i 3803 52.5/47.5
I should have commented that most of the 540's EXTRA weight was on the front
wheels. It's not dramatic, but its there. (Don't you find the 3803 weight
interesting compared to the 550i?) The 540 SP's also go with staggered
wheelsets and larger rubber on the rear. This improves straight line
traction but further unbalances the car. The 540 has somewhat less rear
roll stiffness, also contributing to understeer. Of course, with the torque
of the V8, you can always steer with the throttle.
The 540's power and torque are wonderful selling points versus the 530. But
while you can only occasionally enjoy that extra performance, you have its
costs (great and small) always. They're both great cars, and both have
their fans.
R / John |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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In article <u_SdncJnNcxYlefenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
Malt_Hound <Malt_Hound\@*spam-me not*yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I should have commented that most of the 540's EXTRA weight was on the
front wheels. It's not dramatic, but its there. (Don't you find the
3803 weight interesting compared to the 550i?)
Yes, I do. I'm sure that the BMW engineers had to work very hard to
maintain that weight with a bigger engine.
|
Doesn't the 540 have mainly steel front suspension - the 530 aluminium?
Probably because it's a carry on from the E34 while the 530 has the newer
rack and pinion set up.
--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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John Carrier wrote:
| Quote: | "Malt_Hound" <""Malt_Hound\"@*spam-me not*yahoo.com"> wrote in message
news:JpCdnYtQ-LtaC-XeRVn-tQ@adelphia.com...
John Carrier wrote:
"bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131834567.878377.89030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Some think the E39 530i with 5 speed manual trans and sport suspension
was "better" than the 540i because BMW used rack and pinion steering
instead of the worm and gear drive found on the 540i. They felt tha
tthe 530i could outcorner the 540.
With comparable tires, likely. Not so much the steering, but the simple
matter of weight. The 530 is lighter on its feet. Most of the 540's
weight is on the front tires, which tends to emphasize understeer.
I have often heard repeated this statement (about the eights being front
heavy) but cannot find any supporting evidence that it is true. Certainly
the added weight of the larger engine is a handicap in handling. About
250 lbs of difference in curb weight between the E39 3 liter six and 4.4
liter eight. But the engineers moved things around in their designs to
try to retain the 50/50 weight bias that BMWs are famed for regardless of
the total.
I can't find and weight distribution specs on the E39, but from the BMW NA
site info is available for the "current-day" 5 series. A 530i weighs
3,472 lbs with a 50.8% / 49.2% (F/R) weight distribution. A 550i that
weighs 3803 lbs total (331 lbs heavier) has a 51.3% / 48.7% F/R weight.
So while the modern 530i is 55 lbs heavier on the rear axle than the
front, the 550i is 91 lbs heavier on the rear than the front. The total
difference between the two of 36 lbs is hardly significant. Throw a small
gym bag in the trunk and you are all square.
For the E39 auto (2003 brochure)
530i 3549 50.9/49.1
540i 3803 52.5/47.5
|
OK good. So they were:
530i Total: 3549 Rear: 1742 Front: 1806 Heavier in the rear by 64 lbs
540i Total: 3803 Rear: 1806 Front: 1996 Heavier in the rear by 190 lbs
So the V8 is 254 lbs heavier in total and picks up 126 lbs in the front
bias. Yep, that seems to prove it out. But it is still pretty evenly
biased as compared to the vast majority of cars on the road.
| Quote: |
I should have commented that most of the 540's EXTRA weight was on the front
wheels. It's not dramatic, but its there. (Don't you find the 3803 weight
interesting compared to the 550i?)
|
Yes, I do. I'm sure that the BMW engineers had to work very hard to
maintain that weight with a bigger engine.
--
-Fred W |
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Dave Plowman (News)
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:26 am Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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In article <zImdnef0qrUG2ufeRVn-hQ@adelphia.com>,
Malt_Hound <Malt_Hound\@*spam-me not*yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Even my E34 540i has the aluminum control arms.
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Right.
| Quote: | Not much else is
though... On the other hand I thing the RB box and tie-rods is probably
lighter than a R&P box and its style of tie-rods.
|
Wot - including idler box tie rod and drag links? ;-)
--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Alistair J Murray
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:43 am Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Doesn't the 540 have mainly steel front suspension - the 530
aluminium? Probably because it's a carry on from the E34 while the
530 has the newer rack and pinion set up.
|
It's all aluminium on my 540i based B10 V8.
A |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:39 am Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <u_SdncJnNcxYlefenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
Malt_Hound <Malt_Hound\@*spam-me not*yahoo.com> wrote:
I should have commented that most of the 540's EXTRA weight was on the
front wheels. It's not dramatic, but its there. (Don't you find the
3803 weight interesting compared to the 550i?)
Yes, I do. I'm sure that the BMW engineers had to work very hard to
maintain that weight with a bigger engine.
Doesn't the 540 have mainly steel front suspension - the 530 aluminium?
Probably because it's a carry on from the E34 while the 530 has the newer
rack and pinion set up.
|
Even my E34 540i has the aluminum control arms. Not much else is
though... On the other hand I thing the RB box and tie-rods is probably
lighter than a R&P box and its style of tie-rods.
--
-Fred W |
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Malt_Hound
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject:
Re: E39 530i - issues/weaknesses? |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <zImdnef0qrUG2ufeRVn-hQ@adelphia.com>,
Malt_Hound <Malt_Hound\@*spam-me not*yahoo.com> wrote:
Even my E34 540i has the aluminum control arms.
Right.
Not much else is
though... On the other hand I thing the RB box and tie-rods is probably
lighter than a R&P box and its style of tie-rods.
Wot - including idler box tie rod and drag links? ;-)
|
Yeah, it seems to me that a steering rack weighs a lot more than a RB
box. And you still have the tie rods either way, so all you save weight
on is the drag link and idler arm.
--
-Fred W |
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