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Alley Mechanic
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:04 am Post subject:
New formula Prestone pro & con |
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Anyone have experience with the extended life Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant
promoted as mix with any color antifreeze, new formula, all makes, all models?
Is it the same as Dex-Cool, better, worse or stick with the green stuff? TIA
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:11 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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"Alley Mechanic" <notme@anonamuss.com> wrote in message
news:DtPcf.75485$zb5.24069@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Anyone have experience with the extended life Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant
promoted as mix with any color antifreeze, new formula, all makes, all
models?
Is it the same as Dex-Cool, better, worse or stick with the green stuff?
TIA |
Interesting...Will have to research this one... |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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Alley Mechanic wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone have experience with the extended life Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant
promoted as mix with any color antifreeze, new formula, all makes, all models?
Is it the same as Dex-Cool, better, worse or stick with the green stuff? TIA
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I have read in several places that it is essentially Dex-Cool dyed
yellow and without GM licensing. I am not sure if that is true or not.
John
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ssWcf.80412$An6.32994@trnddc08...
| Quote: | I have read in several places that it is essentially Dex-Cool dyed
yellow and without GM licensing. I am not sure if that is true or not.
John
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Interesting. I dont know whether GM owns any patents in this area, but
can check it. GM would almost certainly own the rights to the Dex-Cool
name. The first patents I read in this general area of chemistry were by
Japanese researchers.
As I have mentioned before, the company I worked for used this technology
but bought the additive package from the patent holder, and was therefore
free to use it in glycol formulations. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ssWcf.80412$An6.32994@trnddc08...
| Quote: | Is it the same as Dex-Cool, better, worse or stick with the green
stuff? TIA
I have read in several places that it is essentially Dex-Cool dyed
yellow and without GM licensing. I am not sure if that is true or not.
John
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I took a quick look, and it would appear that Texaco supplies the inhibitor
package to GM. This organic acid technology (OAT) was supposed to
be great stuff and free of silicate. HOAT was then formulated to offset
some of the OAT problems, and silicates were added again, but at lower
levels.
BASF apparently also supplies some materials.
Again, I dont believe GM has a licensing position, but am no lawyer. |
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Alley Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:LE2df.25925$6e1.17059@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: | http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6818147.html
I tried to read the page but it is too deep for me. However, the following |
caught my eye, does this apply to DEX-COOL?
Alkylene glycol/water mixtures are very corrosive at the operating temperatures
of internal-combustion engines. For this reason, the various metals, such as
steel, cast iron, copper, brass, aluminum, magnesium and alloys thereof, as well
as solder metals, for example solder tin, which are used in the cooling system
have to be adequately protected against a very wide variety of types of
corrosion, for example pitting corrosion, crevice corrosion, erosion or
cavitation, through the use of corrosion inhibitors.
New formula Prestone contains ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, sodium 2-ethyl
hexanoate and sodium neodecanoate. Isn't ethylene glycol the basic ingredient in
green stuff? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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Ethylene glycol is the basis for both the old green stuff and most of the
new formulas too.
Some are using propylene glycol since it is less toxic to animals, but it is
also less effective
and more expensive.
That patent that I posted is very similar to the Dex-Cool formulation. BASF
owns that patent,
I believe, but other similar ones are owned by other companies or
individuals. I believe the
corrosion inhibitor package for Dex-Cool comes from Texaco. We could search
Texaco
patents and pin it down further.
There is a lot of chemistry tapdancing that goes on in patent work.. people
patent around other
patents by changing a little here and a little there. Simply having a
patent doesnt mean that the
product or process has been tested, that it ever existed except in
somebody's mind, or that it
is effective. |
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Alley Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:10 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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I visited the www.prestone.com web site and they do a dance around! They just
show you the bottle and its label instructions, no REAL comparison of products
or ingredients. I'm just guessing but my understanding would be that DEX-COOL is
the recommended fill product and New Formula is a "one size fits all additive"
product, possibly a fill product too but Prestone don't actually say so.
EXTENDED LIFE Antifreeze/Coolant
New PrestoneŽ Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant is compatible with ANY
antifreeze/ coolant - regardless of color - for use in ALL makes and models of
cars and light duty trucks. This patented formula provides a high degree of
performance durability and carefully balanced protection against temperature
extremes and rust corrosion of all cooling system metals, including aluminum.
EXTENDED LIFE 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant
PrestoneŽ Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/ Coolant is recommended and formulated
for use in all vehicles that require DEX-COOLŽ coolant, as well as all other
cars and light duty trucks with aluminum radiators using extended life coolant.
This patented formula has a concentrated blend of premium long-lasting
inhibitors for extended performance, protecting against temperature extremes and
the ravages of rust and corrosion for 5 years or 150,000 miles. DEX-COOL and GM
are registered trademarks of General Motors Corporation.
Wasn't silicate the problem ingredient in DEX-COOL? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:24 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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"Alley Mechanic" <notme@anonamuss.com> wrote in message
news:Y_rdf.87804$zb5.65817@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Wasn't silicate the problem ingredient in DEX-COOL?
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I believe that Dex-Cool was silicate free - the so-called OAT (Organic Acid
Technology).
Maybe that is why it fell a bit short of the mark.
HOAT is Hybrid OAT, and some of the silicate has been added again, although
not as
much as previously.
There is considerable leeway as to which organic acids can be used in these
blends.
One of the old technology packages had 0.2% sodium metasilicate as the
inhibitor. Now,
only a very small amount of that package was blended into ethyleneglycol to
make the
market ready antifreeze, so you would have had only parts per million of
silicate there.
Even so, occasionally you would see problems with it. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:
Re: New formula Prestone pro & con |
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"Alley Mechanic" <notme@anonamuss.com> wrote in message
news:Y_rdf.87804$zb5.65817@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I found a series of patents, including one which I believe Prestone is
currently using.
All that I can say is that short term corrosion testing often makes
chemicals look better
than they turn out to be during long term application. For example,
anybody's fresh ¨
antifreeze with the corrosion inhibitor package installed in a clean engine
with good
water may give good results.
As that system heats, cools, sucks air in, gets a little rust or pitting,
etc, the nature of the
corrosion reaction changes. The inhibitors may no longer function as well
as they
did in the clean engine. Before you know it, you have a problem.
Another example which may be interesting to you...in oil well acidizing,
hydrochloric
acid is used to improve flowability of oil zones, to clean everything up.
But, hydrochloric
acid is very corrosive, especially when it is very hot downhole. I remember
some tests ¨
where companies had developed special corrosion inhibitors which would allow
hydrochloric acid to be used at high temperatures, and it would hardly
attack the bare
steel pipe at all...in the lab. It was later shown that as soon as the
hydrochloric
acid dissolved a little rust, the inhibitor performance fell off badly.. It
essentially stopped
working because it had been 'poisoned' by a little contamination.
The rush to patent, and the rush to market, sometimes does more harm than
good. |
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