| Author |
Message |
Bill
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:17 am Post subject:
Help: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
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The car: 1977 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 305, automatic, 70K miles.
Never wrecked, excellent body, frame, runs and drives
as original. Burning oil (probably seals).
Gentlemen,
These are probably a stupid questions. I am new to Chevrolet. Only had 2 in my
life, a 63 Corvair, and an 86 Astro 4.3L.
I would like to keep this 305 block in the car because the number match. This
is an original car.
But, I want to rebuild the engine for good street performance (AND decent
economy, currently 11-12 mpg). Most of the master engine overhaul kits I have
found (so far) are for the 350. Example: JC Whitney has a complete kit for
$151.99
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005487/showCustom-0/p-2005487/N-200730783+111+1977+600010813/c-10114
1st basic question: is the 350 a bored out 305? Are the cranks the same?
2ond basic question: is trying to keep this block (and numbers matching thing)
a waste of time? Should I throw it away and get a 350?
Any experienced advice on Chevy hot rodding (on a budget) would be appreciated.
TIA
Bill
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James Goforth
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:50 am Post subject:
Re: Help: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
I always thought the book "How to Hotrod Small Block Chevys," which
has been around forever, was about the best all around book for what
you're doing.
I would put a very high priority on keeping the numbers-matching
engine, although you could just get a 350 to put in the car while
keeping the stock engine stored somewhere.
Personally I've always thought the 305's were a pretty good engine
when in good condition. I don't think they were known for being a gas
hog of the calibre yours seems to be, though--something's wrong there.
The smoking could just be valve guide seals, easy to check for that
and they can be changed without tearing everything apart if you have the
proper tool. |
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Scott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
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|
"Bill" <b@b.com> wrote in message
news:ljeqm19ouh782u9bs5mu1i3icelltcnaha@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
The car: 1977 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 305, automatic, 70K miles.
Never wrecked, excellent body, frame, runs and drives
as original. Burning oil (probably seals).
Gentlemen,
These are probably a stupid questions. I am new to Chevrolet. Only had 2
in my
life, a 63 Corvair, and an 86 Astro 4.3L.
I would like to keep this 305 block in the car because the number match.
This
is an original car.
But, I want to rebuild the engine for good street performance (AND decent
economy, currently 11-12 mpg). Most of the master engine overhaul kits I
have
found (so far) are for the 350. Example: JC Whitney has a complete kit for
$151.99
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005487/showCustom-0/p-2005487/N-200730783+111+1977+600010813/c-10114
1st basic question: is the 350 a bored out 305? Are the cranks the same?
2ond basic question: is trying to keep this block (and numbers matching
thing)
a waste of time? Should I throw it away and get a 350?
Any experienced advice on Chevy hot rodding (on a budget) would be
appreciated.
TIA
Bill
|
I had to search and see if 77 was the last year of the "real iron" or the
first year of the plastic bumpers. You got the cool old iron.
The 350 and 305 share almost every part except the pistons. You can't
bore a 305 to 350 the cylinders aren't that thick. Cranks are the same.
Same stroke.
I used How to Rebuild your Small Block Chevy to build 4 motors.
It takes you through teardown, reconditioning, and reassembly. You
cant beat it.
With the low mileage of your motor I would try just replacing the valve
seals. It would be so much easier than rebuilding the whole thing.
I hate to tell you but there is probably nothing you can do about the
mileage. It is a big heavy car and not much you can do about that.
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StingRay
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"Bill" <b@b.com> wrote in message
news:ljeqm19ouh782u9bs5mu1i3icelltcnaha@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
The car: 1977 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 305, automatic, 70K miles.
Never wrecked, excellent body, frame, runs and drives
as original. Burning oil (probably seals).
Gentlemen,
These are probably a stupid questions. I am new to Chevrolet. Only had 2
in my
life, a 63 Corvair, and an 86 Astro 4.3L.
I would like to keep this 305 block in the car because the number match.
This
is an original car.
But, I want to rebuild the engine for good street performance (AND decent
economy, currently 11-12 mpg). Most of the master engine overhaul kits I
have
found (so far) are for the 350. Example: JC Whitney has a complete kit for
$151.99
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005487/showCustom-0/p-2005487/N-200730783+111+1977+600010813/c-10114
1st basic question: is the 350 a bored out 305? Are the cranks the same?
2ond basic question: is trying to keep this block (and numbers matching
thing)
a waste of time? Should I throw it away and get a 350?
Any experienced advice on Chevy hot rodding (on a budget) would be
appreciated.
TIA
Bill
|
Bill, you should be able to find rebuild kits in the U.S. for the 305. In
the off-chance that you can't, here's a link to a Canadian source. I assume
that prices are in Canadian $, so it should be even cheaper in U.S. $.
http://www.hi-performance.com/CHP/DomesticRebuildKits.htm#top |
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James Goforth
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
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I know it's not exactly an economy car, but eleven mpg still seems
pretty darn low.
I've had several full-size chevy pickups of the same vintage which
would do better than that, 3/4 ton, 350 4bbl. |
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"James Goforth" <jamiegoforth@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16843-436D86AC-169@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | I know it's not exactly an economy car, but eleven mpg still seems
pretty darn low.
I've had several full-size chevy pickups of the same vintage which
would do better than that, 3/4 ton, 350 4bbl.
|
I agree. I had a '74 Monte Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust &
I got close to 30 m.p.g. on highway trips. In '74, the Monte Carlo was
considered an intermediate size vehicle, not a large one. It was also called
a "personal luxury" car.
I also agree with James on using "How to Hotrod Small Block Chevys" as a
reference source. Here's one link where you can pick it up for $ 18.95. Hit
on the link and then click on Page 5. It's the first item on Page 5.
http://www.autobooks-aerobooks.com/framestuffer.htm?cars/gm1.asp~mainFrame |
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Scott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote in message
news:H4adnTgILZBkCfDeRVn-jQ@rogers.com...
| Quote: | "James Goforth" <jamiegoforth@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16843-436D86AC-169@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
I know it's not exactly an economy car, but eleven mpg still seems
pretty darn low.
I've had several full-size chevy pickups of the same vintage which
would do better than that, 3/4 ton, 350 4bbl.
I agree. I had a '74 Monte Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust
& I got close to 30 m.p.g. on highway trips.
|
That was about the mileage a Pinto of that vintage got.
A Monte Carlo of that year getting that kind of mileage
would be nothing less than a miracle. |
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Bill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Help: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
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|
Oh yeah, I remember seeing that book once. I will track one down. Thanks for
the tip on the numbers.
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 20:50:07 -0600, jamiegoforth@webtv.net (James Goforth)
wrote:
| Quote: | I always thought the book "How to Hotrod Small Block Chevys," which
has been around forever, was about the best all around book for what
you're doing.
I would put a very high priority on keeping the numbers-matching
engine, although you could just get a 350 to put in the car while
keeping the stock engine stored somewhere.
Personally I've always thought the 305's were a pretty good engine
when in good condition. I don't think they were known for being a gas
hog of the calibre yours seems to be, though--something's wrong there.
The smoking could just be valve guide seals, easy to check for that
and they can be changed without tearing everything apart if you have the
proper tool. |
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| Back to top |
|
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TheSnoMan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
StingRay wrote:
| Quote: | "James Goforth" <jamiegoforth@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16843-436D86AC-169@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
I know it's not exactly an economy car, but eleven mpg still seems
pretty darn low.
I've had several full-size chevy pickups of the same vintage which
would do better than that, 3/4 ton, 350 4bbl.
I agree. I had a '74 Monte Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust &
I got close to 30 m.p.g. on highway trips. In '74, the Monte Carlo was
considered an intermediate size vehicle, not a large one. It was also called
a "personal luxury" car.
I also agree with James on using "How to Hotrod Small Block Chevys" as a
reference source. Here's one link where you can pick it up for $ 18.95. Hit
on the link and then click on Page 5. It's the first item on Page 5.
http://www.autobooks-aerobooks.com/framestuffer.htm?cars/gm1.asp~mainFrame
|
That is pure BS, 30 MPG on a trip with a Monte. You have very bad math
skills or wishfull thinking.
--
-----------------
www.thesnoman.com |
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"Scott" <homealone.com> wrote in message
news:11mrapbrt9cme18@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | That was about the mileage a Pinto of that vintage got.
A Monte Carlo of that year getting that kind of mileage
would be nothing less than a miracle.
|
"gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:c9c4f$436dac82$438cfe35$17674@ALLTEL.NET...
| Quote: |
Absolutely. There just isn't any way.
|
"TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:isrbf.5648$m81.1820@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
That is pure BS, 30 MPG on a trip with a Monte. You have very bad math
skills or wishfull thinking.
|
I always find it fascinating that Bozo's like you three challenge someone's
credibility without substantiating your comments. Scott, you are quoted as
saying "I had to search and see if 77 was the last year of the "real iron"
or the
first year of the plastic bumpers." Funny how you had to look that up, yet
you claim to know that my mileage figure is inaccurate. How did you become
an expert on Monte Carlo's so quickly? So what was the mileage of the '74
Monte Carlo then Scott? Put up (with a credible source) or shut up Scott! I
challenge you.
You go on to say "It is a big heavy car and not much you can do about that."
What was the car's weight Scott? What was the H.P. of the 350? What was the
torque? Did the Car have a catalytic converter? Or did it still run unleaded
fuel?
gfulton & TheSnoman are simply jumping on the bandwagon, for no particular
reason other than they doubt the veracity of my comments simply because they
never owned a '74 Monte Carlo and they just don't know anything about it.
They are speaking from simple ignorance of the issue and lack of knowledge
and experience. They would have been better off remaining quiet and
appearing stupid, than opening their mouths and removing all doubt. It's
easy to flame someone when you weren't there and didn't do that. But it's
quite another thing to support your cheap shots with credible evidence.
So there you have it kiddies - put up or apologize and shut up, when you
don't know what you're talking about! In conclusion, "I had a '74 Monte
Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust & I got close to 30 m.p.g. on
highway trips." And that's a fact, so I know that it can't be proven wrong.
Who's spewing "pure BS" now "TheSnoMan"? ;-) |
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote in message
news:QPadne9GU4LSzvPenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Or did it still run unleaded fuel?
|
Before the 3 stooges flame me again, that should have read "Or did it still
run leaded fuel?" |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
As a point of interest I still own a 1971 Pinto with nearly 330k on the
clock. As to fuel mileage my 2005 Lincoln LS does as well on the highway as
does the Pinto, around 27 MPG. Old cars can not come close to todays cars
in terms of reliability, longevity, safety and fuel mileage. In the fifties
the warranty was 30 days or 1,000 miles WOF. Oil needed to be changed every
1,000 miles, Plugs points, tires and shocks around 10,000 and the rings need
to be changed at 50,000. Today oil changes are at 5,000 miles or six months
and most any car from any manufacture will easily go 100K before needing to
be tuned and they all will easily last to 200K or more given the proper
preventive maintenance. ;)
mike hunt
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote in message
news:QPadne9GU4LSzvPenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | "Scott" <homealone.com> wrote in message
news:11mrapbrt9cme18@corp.supernews.com...
That was about the mileage a Pinto of that vintage got.
A Monte Carlo of that year getting that kind of mileage
would be nothing less than a miracle.
"gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:c9c4f$436dac82$438cfe35$17674@ALLTEL.NET...
Absolutely. There just isn't any way.
"TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:isrbf.5648$m81.1820@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
That is pure BS, 30 MPG on a trip with a Monte. You have very bad math
skills or wishfull thinking.
I always find it fascinating that Bozo's like you three challenge
someone's credibility without substantiating your comments. Scott, you
are quoted as saying "I had to search and see if 77 was the last year of
the "real iron" or the
first year of the plastic bumpers." Funny how you had to look that up,
yet you claim to know that my mileage figure is inaccurate. How did you
become an expert on Monte Carlo's so quickly? So what was the mileage of
the '74 Monte Carlo then Scott? Put up (with a credible source) or shut up
Scott! I challenge you.
You go on to say "It is a big heavy car and not much you can do about
that." What was the car's weight Scott? What was the H.P. of the 350? What
was the torque? Did the Car have a catalytic converter? Or did it still
run unleaded fuel?
gfulton & TheSnoman are simply jumping on the bandwagon, for no particular
reason other than they doubt the veracity of my comments simply because
they never owned a '74 Monte Carlo and they just don't know anything about
it. They are speaking from simple ignorance of the issue and lack of
knowledge and experience. They would have been better off remaining quiet
and appearing stupid, than opening their mouths and removing all doubt.
It's easy to flame someone when you weren't there and didn't do that. But
it's quite another thing to support your cheap shots with credible
evidence.
So there you have it kiddies - put up or apologize and shut up, when you
don't know what you're talking about! In conclusion, "I had a '74 Monte
Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust & I got close to 30 m.p.g.
on highway trips." And that's a fact, so I know that it can't be proven
wrong. Who's spewing "pure BS" now "TheSnoMan"? ;-)
|
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:10 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:hdidnQB9IPAb9_PeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | As a point of interest I still own a 1971 Pinto with nearly 330k on the
clock. As to fuel mileage my 2005 Lincoln LS does as well on the highway
as does the Pinto, around 27 MPG. Old cars can not come close to todays
cars in terms of reliability, longevity, safety and fuel mileage. In the
fifties the warranty was 30 days or 1,000 miles WOF. Oil needed to be
changed every 1,000 miles, Plugs points, tires and shocks around 10,000
and the rings need to be changed at 50,000. Today oil changes are at
5,000 miles or six months and most any car from any manufacture will
easily go 100K before needing to be tuned and they all will easily last to
200K or more given the proper preventive maintenance. ;)
mike hunt
|
Thanks for your knowledgeable input Mike. It's refreshing to see someone
give another NG member the benefit of the doubt. I was po'd when the 3 guys
ripped into me, but I knew why they were amazed at my claim and chose to rip
me. I was going to wait until those other three called me a liar again, but
given your politeness, I'll tip my hand now. As you can see from my I.P.
address, I'm from Canada. Prior to converting to the dreaded metric system
of measurement, Canada used the Imperial gallon at the gas pump. By
comparison, the U.S. gallon was .8327 of an Imperial gallon. As I stated, my
'74 Monte Carlo got close to 30 m.p.g. on longer trips. 30 miles per
Imperial gallon equates to 24.981 miles per U.S. gallon. I told the truth
from the outset, but the 3 guys who flamed me chose to do so, rather than
try to understand why I got 30 m.p.g. To them I say "Things are not always
what they seem". ;-) |
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Scott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:40 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote in message
news:QPadne9GU4LSzvPenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | "Scott" <homealone.com> wrote in message
news:11mrapbrt9cme18@corp.supernews.com...
That was about the mileage a Pinto of that vintage got.
A Monte Carlo of that year getting that kind of mileage
would be nothing less than a miracle.
You go on to say "It is a big heavy car and not much you can do about
that." What was the car's weight Scott? What was the H.P. of the 350? What
was the torque? Did the Car have a catalytic converter? Or did it still
run unleaded fuel?
|
It is up to you to prove it. I am not here making wild claims.
Just for fun I am asking the owners of similar models at the Monte
Carlo owners club what kind of mileage they get with their cars.
Will post the replys here. |
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| Back to top |
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StingRay
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:46 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy 305 and 350 build questions |
|
|
"Scott" <homealone.com> wrote in message
news:11mt1jglc9vi047@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | "StingRay" <StingRay@Vette.com> wrote in message
news:QPadne9GU4LSzvPenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@rogers.com...
"Scott" <homealone.com> wrote in message
news:11mrapbrt9cme18@corp.supernews.com...
That was about the mileage a Pinto of that vintage got.
A Monte Carlo of that year getting that kind of mileage
would be nothing less than a miracle.
"gfulton" <lbfulton@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:c9c4f$436dac82$438cfe35$17674@ALLTEL.NET...
Absolutely. There just isn't any way.
|
| Quote: | "TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:isrbf.5648$m81.1820@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
That is pure BS, 30 MPG on a trip with a Monte. You have very bad math
skills or wishfull thinking.
|
| Quote: | I always find it fascinating that Bozo's like you three challenge someone's
credibility without substantiating your comments. Scott, you are quoted as
saying "I had to search and see if 77 was the last year of the "real iron"
or the
first year of the plastic bumpers." Funny how you had to look that up, yet
you claim to know that my mileage figure is inaccurate. How did you become
an expert on Monte Carlo's so quickly? So what was the mileage of the '74
Monte Carlo then Scott? Put up (with a credible source) or shut up Scott! I
challenge you.
You go on to say "It is a big heavy car and not much you can do about
that." What was the car's weight Scott? What was the H.P. of the 350? What
was the torque? Did the Car have a catalytic converter? Or did it still run
unleaded fuel?
gfulton & TheSnoman are simply jumping on the bandwagon, for no particular
reason other than they doubt the veracity of my comments simply because
they never owned a '74 Monte Carlo and they just don't know anything about
it. They are speaking from simple ignorance of the issue and lack of
knowledge and experience. They would have been better off remaining quiet
and appearing stupid, than opening their mouths and removing all doubt.
It's easy to flame someone when you weren't there and didn't do that. But
it's quite another thing to support your cheap shots with credible
evidence.
So there you have it kiddies - put up or apologize and shut up, when you
don't know what you're talking about! In conclusion, "I had a '74 Monte
Carlo with the 350 engine, 4bbl & dual exhaust & I got close to 30 m.p.g.
on highway trips." And that's a fact, so I know that it can't be proven
wrong. Who's spewing "pure BS" now "TheSnoMan"? ;-)
It is up to you to prove it. I am not here making wild claims.
Just for fun I am asking the owners of similar models at the Monte
Carlo owners club what kind of mileage they get with their cars.
Will post the replys here.
|
First of all Scot, your computer clock has the wrong time because your
message above wasn't posted at 5:40PM. In keeping with your type of wild
accusations, did you reset your clock, so that you could pretend that you
wrote your response before reading my message at 5:10PM, in response to Mike
Hunter? What a dumb-ass move Scot! But then, it tells me the type of
mentality we're dealing with here. ;-) To make you look even sillier, I
will now repost the part of my 5:10PM message that you don't want to
acknowledge:
"Thanks for your knowledgeable input Mike. It's refreshing to see someone
give another NG member the benefit of the doubt. I was po'd when the 3 guys
ripped into me, but I knew why they were amazed at my claim and chose to rip
me. I was going to wait until those other three called me a liar again, but
given your politeness, I'll tip my hand now. As you can see from my I.P.
address, I'm from Canada. Prior to converting to the dreaded metric system
of measurement, Canada used the Imperial gallon at the gas pump. By
comparison, the U.S. gallon was .8327 of an Imperial gallon. As I stated, my
'74 Monte Carlo got close to 30 m.p.g. on longer trips. 30 miles per
Imperial gallon equates to 24.981 miles per U.S. gallon. I told the truth
from the outset, but the 3 guys who flamed me chose to do so, rather than
try to understand why I got 30 m.p.g. To them I say "Things are not always
what they seem". ;-) "
Do you understand what's going on now Scot? Are you ready to admit that you
were wrong? Be a man Scot - apologize for your mistake and let's get on with
our lives. |
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