| Author |
Message |
dh
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:FLmcncloXdpcmOfeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | That's funny. Some guys in the Ford NG tell me to go back to the GM NG
when
I point out GM outsells Ford. Some guys Honda NG tell me to go back to
the
Toyota NG when I point out Toyota outsells Honda They don't like to be
presented with facts that disputes their personal biases and opinions
either
it seems ;)
mike hunt
|
Ya know, if just one guy tells you to go away, maybe it's just him and his
reaction to you. If everybody's telling you to go away... ya might just get
a clue...
Well, you wouldn't.
| Quote: |
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:crhef.144234$Io.106006@clgrps13...
Why don't you fuck off back to your Ford ng?
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:51 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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flobert wrote:
| Quote: |
Such as, ohhh, with a CVT? Had a few of them over the years, kinda
weird sitting there, accelerating, and getting NO change in the engine
note, as it holds at its peak torque point, Good old rubber band cars,
much more efficient than regular slushboxes too, since they dont have
so many nasty planetaries.
|
In full throttle situations the CVT should be tunned to hold the engine
at the peak power output point, not the peak torque point.
John |
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st-bum
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:37 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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I've noticed that with the same "small" car Toyotas seem to get about
20% better gas mileage.
The Corolla gets 40mpg and Chevy Cobalt, which has a bigger engine but
the same power output gets about 20% less.
Why is that? Is GM just that far behind technology wise? Is that why
their stock price is at 20 year lows and they lose money every quarter?
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flobert
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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On 15 Nov 2005 18:37:41 -0800, "st-bum" <kennykabuki@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I've noticed that with the same "small" car Toyotas seem to get about
20% better gas mileage.
The Corolla gets 40mpg and Chevy Cobalt, which has a bigger engine but
the same power output gets about 20% less.
Why is that? Is GM just that far behind technology wise? Is that why
their stock price is at 20 year lows and they lose money every quarter?
|
Tuning.
American cars/engines are tuned to bias their torque lower down the
rev range. Makes it more compatable with the ubiquitus slush-box
americans love. Result is the calculated peak power is the same,
although its a bigger engine, ANd a more inefficient engine results. |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Your bias is showing, again. ;)
mike
"dh" <dh@stargate.com> wrote in message
news:dle00c$3ob$2@domitilla.aioe.org...
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:FLmcncloXdpcmOfeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
That's funny. Some guys in the Ford NG tell me to go back to the GM NG
when
I point out GM outsells Ford. Some guys Honda NG tell me to go back to
the
Toyota NG when I point out Toyota outsells Honda They don't like to be
presented with facts that disputes their personal biases and opinions
either
it seems ;)
mike hunt
Ya know, if just one guy tells you to go away, maybe it's just him and his
reaction to you. If everybody's telling you to go away... ya might just
get
a clue...
Well, you wouldn't.
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:crhef.144234$Io.106006@clgrps13...
Why don't you fuck off back to your Ford ng?
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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I don't do homework for my own grandchildren what make you think I would do
yours? Research the EPA fuel economy guide for the facts on fuel mileage.
Search the bible of the auto industry, automtivenews.com, for sales figures.
mike
"dh" <dh@stargate.com> wrote in message
news:dle009$3ob$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:ubecncbAUPiQlOfeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Again you are confused I don't present opinions,
Yes, you are offering opinions. Lame, unsubstantiated opinions.
what I posted are fact that
are available to anybody willing to do the search.
Then it should be very easy for you to provide references and sources.
Others do so.
Although Toyota and
Honda have the number one and two selling individual model cars, and Ford
has the best selling individual truck GM sell more cars than Ford,
Toyota
and Honda as well as more trucks than Ford, Toyota and Honda . As to
fuel
mileage GM offers far more vehicles that get over 30 MPG than does
Toyota.
If this is so, it should be very easy for you to name these vehicles. The
Cobalt comes to mind. Any others?
GM even offers a full sized V8 Chevrolet that gets nearly 30 MPG.
If it exists and you know if it, it should be trivially easy for you to
name
it. Do so.
Better
do some research if you are going to continue to post on this subject
Yes, you'd better do some research. Surprise us with a fact or two.
mike hunt
.
"Bo Yancey" <yakkbo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rugef.539040$x96.451271@attbi_s72...
dh wrote:
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is
a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales.
Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost
over
a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be
out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must
buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a
lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion:
people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe they
think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and
would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets
mediocre
gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed
to
believe your figures?
Synergy beats Honda.
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Michael Pardee
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
|
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"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:rpfkn19kmu9h8vutmlr23s6vclbdubvji6@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:43:22 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
"st-bum" <kennykabuki@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131860509.264966.282990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What's the relationship between torque and HP? I never understood
that.
And I had a year of physics at an engineering shchool.
I know power is work and torque is twisting force (F * r), but somehow
I would think the two would be very similar.
The difference is in the rpm curves. It really all hinges on the torque
anyway, as you point out, since for a given torque the hp rises in
proportion to rpm.
The low end torque is stuff I never really got a handle on, but at the
high
end (where most of the controversy is anyway) it is all related to
breathing. Things like intake and exhaust design and cam considerations of
valve lift, duration and overlap can increase the useful torque at high
rpms
and thereby increase the maximum power.
The torque/power debate really comes down to gearing. If we could select
any
gear ratio we wanted any time we wanted, we could make good use of maximum
power and nobody would talk about torque.
Such as, ohhh, with a CVT? Had a few of them over the years, kinda
weird sitting there, accelerating, and getting NO change in the engine
note, as it holds at its peak torque point, Good old rubber band cars,
much more efficient than regular slushboxes too, since they dont have
so many nasty planetaries.
Of course, the Toyota hybrid system has a variation without the rubber band. |
Nothing shifts, nothing engages or disengages. The engine doesn't even
exclusively provide torque to the wheels, but provides power to the hybrid
system.
Mike |
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dh
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
|
|
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:OLCdndrnH45V7ObeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | I don't do homework for my own grandchildren what make you think I would
do
yours? Research the EPA fuel economy guide for the facts on fuel mileage.
Search the bible of the auto industry, automtivenews.com, for sales
figures.
mike
|
This isn't OUR homework, this is YOUR homework. Got facts for your lame
opinions? Then post them.
I've taken the time to provide comparisons. Don't like my comparisons?
Refute them with facts of your own.
| Quote: |
"dh" <dh@stargate.com> wrote in message
news:dle009$3ob$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:ubecncbAUPiQlOfeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Again you are confused I don't present opinions,
Yes, you are offering opinions. Lame, unsubstantiated opinions.
what I posted are fact that
are available to anybody willing to do the search.
Then it should be very easy for you to provide references and sources.
Others do so.
Although Toyota and
Honda have the number one and two selling individual model cars, and
Ford
has the best selling individual truck GM sell more cars than Ford,
Toyota
and Honda as well as more trucks than Ford, Toyota and Honda . As to
fuel
mileage GM offers far more vehicles that get over 30 MPG than does
Toyota.
If this is so, it should be very easy for you to name these vehicles.
The
Cobalt comes to mind. Any others?
GM even offers a full sized V8 Chevrolet that gets nearly 30 MPG.
If it exists and you know if it, it should be trivially easy for you to
name
it. Do so.
Better
do some research if you are going to continue to post on this subject
Yes, you'd better do some research. Surprise us with a fact or two.
mike hunt
.
"Bo Yancey" <yakkbo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rugef.539040$x96.451271@attbi_s72...
dh wrote:
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck
is
a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales.
Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost
over
a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be
out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical
"must
buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the
top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up.
Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a
lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps
you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion:
people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe
they
think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and
would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets
mediocre
gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed
to
believe your figures?
Synergy beats Honda.
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