| Author |
Message |
Bob Palmer
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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I own a pickup and a minivan, and I notice that pickups always fall behind
on grades because of their poor wind resistance. It is why hybrid technology
is wasted on pickups and SUVs for MPG and why huge engines are wasted on
them also. You can push a billboard through the wind only so fast. It seems
like the fastest drivers on highways have Accords and Jettas.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:DLWcnXYMp87ASOneUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | You are entitled to you own opinion but the proof is in the pudding, as
they say. You can prove it too yourself if you wish. Drive in hilly or
mountainous parts of the county and notice which vehicles fall behind
others when you come to a grade. ;(
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:W3Rcf.19264$6M6.18583@trnddc04...
Mike Hunter wrote:
Not necessarily. It would depend at what RPMs each engine produced its
maximum torque. It is after all tongue, not HP, that get the vehicle
going from a stop and what keeps it going, at speed, up a long grade.
The Pruis uses the electric motor when staring and adds it on grades
because electric motors develop their greatest amount of tongue at start
up. That is why most Toyota are under powered, compared to many of its
competitors vehicles. . Toyota, like many import brand engines are
designed to produce their HP at higher RPMs than the engines in domestic
brands, that is why they run out of tongue rather quickly at speed.. The
reason is domestics sell mostly automatic tyrannies in the majority of
their vehicles that are equipped with tongue converters. On the other
hand Japanese brands which use the same engines in cars sold in other
countries that have a much larger percentage of their vehicle equipped
with manual tyrannies. With a manual tranny the gear selector can be
used to stay on the tongue curve to climb grades, particularly long
grades.
snip
Power is the ability to accomplish work from a physics point of view and
it is indeed power which is required to overcome wind resistance, move a
certain distance and/or increase potential energy (climb a hill).
There is great misunderstanding about the relationship between torque and
power. In modern times the distinctions between manual and automatic
transmissions are becoming moot in this regard as today's automatic
transmissions often have five or six forward gears, which gives them even
more flexibility for optimizing the relationship between engine speed
(RPMs) and work being done than ever before. I don't think that you
actually understand the function of a torque converter either. It is
essentially and infinitely variable transmission which goes between the
engine and the main transmission and provides for a range of ratios
between the two. Modern ones also include an electrically activated
lockiing clutch to disable the converter under cruise conditions and thus
get rid of the high amount of power loss in the little buggers.
In modern times the differences between "import" and "domestic" motor
design points is becomming smaller all the time. Cadillac's Northstar
has far more in common with a Lexus V-6 than it does with a traditional
1960s style GM motor. The current GM Ecotec 4 cyclinder motor is very
similar to similar size Japanese and European designs. In fact, GM puts
a turbo version of it in the Saabs.
Your Japanese/Domestic comparisons are off the mark and meaningless. I
will gladly take on any V-6 equipped modern Chevrolet or Ford at the
local drag strip or road racing course with my V-6 Honda Accord. GM is
only now starting to implement variable valve timing used to flatten the
torque curve as Honda has been doing for years.
John
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Once again you are confused. The sales figures are for the F150 & F250, the
Silverado and the Ram trucks for sizes up to 8,500 GVWR. IF all light
trucks were include, the total figures would be even higher.
Trucks over 8,500 like the F250HD and the F350 are not counted in the
individual sales figures. Light trucks like the current leaders has nothing
to do with discounts, light trucks have been outselling cars since 1975 when
the majority of car went to FWD. The Ford F150 is by far the best selling
vehicle had has been for nearly thirty years. When SUVs are included light
truck sales have exceed car sales for several years.
Perhaps you might want to do some research before commenting further on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge, or at least say
in my opinion.
mike hunt
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
American" sheep.
|
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
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Bruce L. Bergman
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:50 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:17:04 -0500, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:42:05 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:
In article <he4cn15ikkbsvihp0rlbom29lkc3ausdlc@4ax.com
blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid "Bruce L. Bergman" writes:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:33:08 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:
One parallel is not exact but close: power lines commonly snag
birds as they fly past. That's why you will see silvery balls
strung on the lines, especially at valley mouths where flyways
lead up into (and down from) hill country. Here in the UK the
power company have cut local swan deaths by this precaution.
Sorry, but no. That's not the primary reason why the visibility
balls are placed, or they would be installed on all power lines.
[discussion of the US situation]
Thanks for the insights on the USian setup. However, our local
power company here in the eastern UK did install such power line
decorations to save swans/geese/etc from accidents, when flying
around favoured grazing/landing sites. Maybe they saved the odd
plane too -- dunno.
Sorry, they're for light aircraft in the UK too.
Documents and reports should be available at your local HSE office, go
n and ask nicely. They should be able to find you the mountains of
reports on it.
|
Now this isn't to dismiss you totally - I'm sure there are some
stupid or poor eyesight species of birds where the airplane visibility
balls are a help, especially where the wires pass several hundred
meters over a valley where they would expect to find clear air. But
they were placed there primarily for airplanes.
But if the birds are there at that altitude too, that raises the
problems of bird strikes on airplanes...
And when a Raptor (hawks, falcons, etc.) is following a pigeon and
has his mind solely on Dinner!, he's going to follow the prey bird
till one of them loses the chase. And a smart prey bird is gong to
try to lose the predator however they can - and leading him right into
the blades of a wind turbine, or the side of a building, or a cliff,
is a great way to lose your pursuer. Permanently if possible, so they
don't have to go through this whole chase scene all over again
tomorrow.
Raptors like to light on top of power poles and zap themselves
between the lines, too. Which led to them putting a bare crossarm at
the top of certain favorite poles with no wires, solely to act as a
perch. The transmission lines are on the next crossarm down.
But it's not done for the birds, it's for practical reasons - a bird
gets zapped, and the flash-over trips the circuit breaker for that
transmission line and shuts that line off for anywhere from a few
minutes to a few hours.
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
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Andrew Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:03 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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In article <tnphn19oipqnqjopvpiu114da9bpflphac@4ax.com>
blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid "Bruce L. Bergman" writes:
| Quote: | Raptors like to light on top of power poles and zap themselves
between the lines, too. Which led to them putting a bare crossarm at
the top of certain favorite poles with no wires, solely to act as a
perch. The transmission lines are on the next crossarm down.
But it's not done for the birds, it's for practical reasons - a bird
gets zapped, and the flash-over trips the circuit breaker for that
transmission line and shuts that line off for anywhere from a few
minutes to a few hours.
|
Reminds me of a story my grandfather told me, of the early days
of coal mines in the north of England.
It seems one mine used to generate 10,000 volts to run its gear,
but did so several miles from the pit, which involved setting up
power lines across open countryside... Okay, you've guessed the
punchline; but ride with me for the scenery.
Now and then power would fail at the pit. A man would be sent to
walk the lines. He never seemed to find a cause. When breakers
were closed again, the system would run fine -- until next time.
One day someone was out on the moors (or whatever) and noticed a
group of rooks (or similar gregarious, prone-to-squabbling birds)
had roosted on the lines. As he watched he saw a rook, on one
line, lean across to peck at a neighbour, on the other line--
The explanation for the failures came, as it were, in a flash.
(Okay, stupid line layout. Early days of HT power transmission.)
--
Andrew Stephenson |
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Gord Beaman
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:53 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <tnphn19oipqnqjopvpiu114da9bpflphac@4ax.com
blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid "Bruce L. Bergman" writes:
snip
One day someone was out on the moors (or whatever) and noticed a
group of rooks (or similar gregarious, prone-to-squabbling birds)
had roosted on the lines. As he watched he saw a rook, on one
line, lean across to peck at a neighbour, on the other line--
The explanation for the failures came, as it were, in a flash.
|
....and, now that you know what a rook is...ever hear about one
rook asking another... "Hey, bred any good rooks lately?" :)
--
-Gord.
(use gordon in email) |
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Andrew Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:25 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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In article <fhfin1do77og5piahciv4kn9j6c720ku1d@4ax.com>
gord@islandtelecom.com "Gord Beaman" writes:
| Quote: | ...and, now that you know what a rook is...ever hear about one
rook asking another... "Hey, bred any good rooks lately?" :)
|
*retch* :-) (I see we're not sharing this with those Hondans.)
--
Andrew Stephenson |
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dh
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:V8CdnUKbB9ycXuXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | Once again you are confused. The sales figures are for the F150 & F250,
the
Silverado and the Ram trucks for sizes up to 8,500 GVWR. IF all light
trucks were include, the total figures would be even higher.
Trucks over 8,500 like the F250HD and the F350 are not counted in the
individual sales figures. Light trucks like the current leaders has
nothing
to do with discounts, light trucks have been outselling cars since 1975
when
the majority of car went to FWD. The Ford F150 is by far the best selling
vehicle had has been for nearly thirty years. When SUVs are included
light
truck sales have exceed car sales for several years.
Perhaps you might want to do some research before commenting further on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge, or at least
say
in my opinion.
mike hunt
|
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
| Quote: | "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
|
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion: people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe they think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets mediocre gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed to
believe your figures? |
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Bo Yancey
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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dh wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:V8CdnUKbB9ycXuXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Once again you are confused. The sales figures are for the F150 & F250,
the
Silverado and the Ram trucks for sizes up to 8,500 GVWR. IF all light
trucks were include, the total figures would be even higher.
Trucks over 8,500 like the F250HD and the F350 are not counted in the
individual sales figures. Light trucks like the current leaders has
nothing
to do with discounts, light trucks have been outselling cars since 1975
when
the majority of car went to FWD. The Ford F150 is by far the best selling
vehicle had has been for nearly thirty years. When SUVs are included
light
truck sales have exceed car sales for several years.
Perhaps you might want to do some research before commenting further on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge, or at least
say
in my opinion.
mike hunt
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion: people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe they think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets mediocre gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed to
believe your figures?
Synergy beats Honda. |
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Bo Yancey
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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dh wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:iAidnbfkG7CdC-veUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Camry may still be the number one selling car but it was never the number
one vehicle sold in the US. The F150 is the number one seller and has
been
for nearly thirty years, at just about twice as many sold as the Camry.
Camry is aparently not as popular as it was last year either. Cold it be
becse they are underpowered? The Camry was the ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to lose sales in 2005, it dropped around 20,000 sales, falling from third
place to fourth below the Dodge Ram. The others all gained sales,
including
the Honda Accord, which is actully made in the US, not merely assembed of
imported parts like the Camry
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
Having exactly what to do with your repeated unsupported allegation that
Toyotas are underpowered?
Still, with every pickup, you get highway mileage in the teens! Yippee!
And, in spite of its voracious appetite for gas, Edmunds had this to say
about the F150:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/ford/f150/100447759/researchlanding.html
"Feels sluggish even with larger V8."
Gee, thirsty AND slow. Who would have expected THAT from a Ford?
Get some facts and a clue and get back to us.
"dh" <dh@stargate.com> wrote in message
The Camry is one of the most popular cars on the market. Toyota
actually
makes money selling them. Most people think the 4 is at least
adequately
powered or they wouldn't buy them and Toyota wouldn't make money selling
them. Friends who drive them think they move out just fine (and none of
these owns one of the latest with VVTi and a better power-to-weight
ratio
than ever before).
Yea. Gotta love those offset crash test videos! Total it, and if you |
survive, buy another! |
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Sharx35
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Why don't you fuck off back to your Ford ng?
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot more
car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant to
say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
2006 is certain to take away a lot of the thunder from Mr. Hunter's
argument. Large truck and SUV sales are dropping like a rock while sedan
and small crossover SUV sales are increasing.
Somewhere in the next couple of years Toyota is going to pass GM in
worldwide sales volume and will never look back. If the Delphi
bankructcy results in supply distruptions to GM, which is highly likely,
then 2006 will be the year of the changing of leadership for sure.
Years ago GM unseated Ford and has never looked back. GM did it with a
better product range and agressive salesmanship. Unfortunately Detroit
has had it's eye off the ball for too many years now.
John
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flobert
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:50:34 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
<blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:17:04 -0500, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:42:05 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:
In article <he4cn15ikkbsvihp0rlbom29lkc3ausdlc@4ax.com
blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid "Bruce L. Bergman" writes:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:33:08 GMT, ames@deltrak.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Stephenson) wrote:
One parallel is not exact but close: power lines commonly snag
birds as they fly past. That's why you will see silvery balls
strung on the lines, especially at valley mouths where flyways
lead up into (and down from) hill country. Here in the UK the
power company have cut local swan deaths by this precaution.
Sorry, but no. That's not the primary reason why the visibility
balls are placed, or they would be installed on all power lines.
[discussion of the US situation]
Thanks for the insights on the USian setup. However, our local
power company here in the eastern UK did install such power line
decorations to save swans/geese/etc from accidents, when flying
around favoured grazing/landing sites. Maybe they saved the odd
plane too -- dunno.
Sorry, they're for light aircraft in the UK too.
Documents and reports should be available at your local HSE office, go
n and ask nicely. They should be able to find you the mountains of
reports on it.
Now this isn't to dismiss you totally - I'm sure there are some
stupid or poor eyesight species of birds where the airplane visibility
balls are a help, especially where the wires pass several hundred
meters over a valley where they would expect to find clear air. But
they were placed there primarily for airplanes.
|
and of course, common sense might also dictate that if they can't see
the line without the balls, they can't see it WITH the balls, and just
see the balls, and are as likely to go to either side as up. I don't
recall seeing anywhere that someone has taught birds 'when you see the
balls, there's powerlines and you got to go up over them' They don't
know what the balls mean, just that they're balls.
| Quote: |
But if the birds are there at that altitude too, that raises the
problems of bird strikes on airplanes...
|
yep, happens a fair bit, mainly with deaf birds, who don't hear the
aircraft - noise plays a bit part of birds lives.
| Quote: |
And when a Raptor (hawks, falcons, etc.) is following a pigeon and
has his mind solely on Dinner!, he's going to follow the prey bird
till one of them loses the chase. And a smart prey bird is gong to
try to lose the predator however they can - and leading him right into
the blades of a wind turbine, or the side of a building, or a cliff,
is a great way to lose your pursuer. Permanently if possible, so they
don't have to go through this whole chase scene all over again
tomorrow.
Raptors like to light on top of power poles and zap themselves
between the lines, too. Which led to them putting a bare crossarm at
the top of certain favorite poles with no wires, solely to act as a
perch. The transmission lines are on the next crossarm down.
But it's not done for the birds, it's for practical reasons - a bird
gets zapped, and the flash-over trips the circuit breaker for that
transmission line and shuts that line off for anywhere from a few
minutes to a few hours.
|
Think we established elsewhere 9certainly on one of my emergency
services groups) that the line breakers nowadays reset themselves 3-4
times, before breaking perminantly, just for that reason. Seen plenty
of warning notifications that say 'even if the hot stick says the
lines off, don't assume it is, because of the breakers. Wait for grid
controller confirmation before entering the vicinity of the jump-zone' |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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That's funny. Some guys in the Ford NG tell me to go back to the GM NG when
I point out GM outsells Ford. Some guys Honda NG tell me to go back to the
Toyota NG when I point out Toyota outsells Honda They don't like to be
presented with facts that disputes their personal biases and opinions either
it seems ;)
mike hunt
"Sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:crhef.144234$Io.106006@clgrps13...
| Quote: | Why don't you fuck off back to your Ford ng?
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
2006 is certain to take away a lot of the thunder from Mr. Hunter's
argument. Large truck and SUV sales are dropping like a rock while
sedan and small crossover SUV sales are increasing.
Somewhere in the next couple of years Toyota is going to pass GM in
worldwide sales volume and will never look back. If the Delphi
bankructcy results in supply distruptions to GM, which is highly likely,
then 2006 will be the year of the changing of leadership for sure.
Years ago GM unseated Ford and has never looked back. GM did it with a
better product range and agressive salesmanship. Unfortunately Detroit
has had it's eye off the ball for too many years now.
John
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Again you are confused I don't present opinions, what I posted are fact that
are available to anybody willing to do the search. Although Toyota and
Honda have the number one and two selling individual model cars, and Ford
has the best selling individual truck GM sell more cars than Ford, Toyota
and Honda as well as more trucks than Ford, Toyota and Honda . As to fuel
mileage GM offers far more vehicles that get over 30 MPG than does Toyota.
GM even offers a full sized V8 Chevrolet that gets nearly 30 MPG. Better
do some research if you are going to continue to post on this subject
mike hunt
..
"Bo Yancey" <yakkbo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rugef.539040$x96.451271@attbi_s72...
| Quote: | dh wrote:
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion: people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe they
think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets mediocre
gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed to
believe your figures?
Synergy beats Honda. |
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flobert
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:06 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:43:22 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "st-bum" <kennykabuki@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131860509.264966.282990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What's the relationship between torque and HP? I never understood
that.
And I had a year of physics at an engineering shchool.
I know power is work and torque is twisting force (F * r), but somehow
I would think the two would be very similar.
The difference is in the rpm curves. It really all hinges on the torque
anyway, as you point out, since for a given torque the hp rises in
proportion to rpm.
The low end torque is stuff I never really got a handle on, but at the high
end (where most of the controversy is anyway) it is all related to
breathing. Things like intake and exhaust design and cam considerations of
valve lift, duration and overlap can increase the useful torque at high rpms
and thereby increase the maximum power.
The torque/power debate really comes down to gearing. If we could select any
gear ratio we wanted any time we wanted, we could make good use of maximum
power and nobody would talk about torque.
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Such as, ohhh, with a CVT? Had a few of them over the years, kinda
weird sitting there, accelerating, and getting NO change in the engine
note, as it holds at its peak torque point, Good old rubber band cars,
much more efficient than regular slushboxes too, since they dont have
so many nasty planetaries.
| Quote: | Back in the real world, within
each gear ratio, the torque curve determines the acceleration we feel.
Mike
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dh
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:43 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:ubecncbAUPiQlOfeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | Again you are confused I don't present opinions,
|
Yes, you are offering opinions. Lame, unsubstantiated opinions.
| Quote: | what I posted are fact that
are available to anybody willing to do the search.
|
Then it should be very easy for you to provide references and sources.
Others do so.
| Quote: | Although Toyota and
Honda have the number one and two selling individual model cars, and Ford
has the best selling individual truck GM sell more cars than Ford, Toyota
and Honda as well as more trucks than Ford, Toyota and Honda . As to fuel
mileage GM offers far more vehicles that get over 30 MPG than does Toyota.
|
If this is so, it should be very easy for you to name these vehicles. The
Cobalt comes to mind. Any others?
| Quote: | GM even offers a full sized V8 Chevrolet that gets nearly 30 MPG.
|
If it exists and you know if it, it should be trivially easy for you to name
it. Do so.
| Quote: | Better
do some research if you are going to continue to post on this subject
|
Yes, you'd better do some research. Surprise us with a fact or two.
| Quote: | mike hunt
.
"Bo Yancey" <yakkbo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Rugef.539040$x96.451271@attbi_s72...
dh wrote:
Why? Do you qualify YOUR lame, unsubstantiated opinions with "in my
opinion?"
"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:MfadnVXwxLKcKuXeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
Part of the reason the 3 pickups (they are not trucks-a dumptruck is a
truck, an 18-wheeler is a truck) made it to the top 3 is because
Chrysler,
Ford & GM used the lure of "employee discount" to pad the sales. Honda
and
Toyota used their normal discounts for this time of year. GM lost over
a
billion in the last quarter. Analysts say both GM and Ford will be out
of
business by 2015. The only sales they will get are the typical "must
buy
American" sheep.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:cbCdnYJjdrncOOXeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? The ONLY vehicle in the top
five
to drop in sales was the Camry, all the others have gone up. Trucks
and
SUVs still account for half of all sales combined and there are a lot
more car models than light truck models on the market. Perhaps you
meant
to say in my opinion? ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jHTdf.4919$%t4.4115@trnddc07...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
VEHICLE Sales Y-T-D 2005 Last Yr. '04 Rank Chg.
1 Ford F-Series pickup 760,929 740,817 1 +2.7
2 Chevrolet Silverado pickup 616,139 575,886 2 +7.0
3 Dodge Ram pickup 409,252 362,122 6 +13.0
4 Toyota Camry 383,478 403,136 3 -4.9
5 Honda Accord 371,307 367,210 5 +1.1
So the top two passenger cars are Toyota and Honda? Conclusion:
people
like them more than they like Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. Maybe they
think
they're a better value. Maybe they hate wasting money on gas and would
rather get a car that gets good gas mileage than one that gets mediocre
gas
mileage.
Gee... Maybe Detroit should think about that.
By the way, I notice you didn't provide a reference. We're supposed to
believe your figures?
Synergy beats Honda.
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