| Author |
Message |
Steve
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject:
Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Excerpts from
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_46/b3959057.htm
While the Toyota Prius sells in eight days, the Honda Accord hybrid
takes some two months to exit the lot. The Honda Civic hybrid is no
Prius either - it takes 36 days to move.
Clearly, the Prius's conspicuous display of uber-greenness is key to
its success. But it also features a radically new driving experience.
It's quite a thrill to hit the accelerator and slip along in near
silence.
Not so for Honda hybrids. Because the gasoline engine is working most
of the time - getting an electrical boost during acceleration - it
drives much like a regular car. Honda says its technology is fuel
efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
***************************************************
Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing.
....Robert Benchley
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M. MacDonald
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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: Honda says its technology is fuel
: efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
Honda missed the point.
Their hybrid just too ugly - and the blame falls partly on that funky
looking, fender-covered thing they tried to peddle (the Insight??).
Mack |
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C. E. White
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"M. MacDonald" <mmacdon@bc.cc.ca.us> wrote in message
news:WUMaf.134$W4.30594@okeanos.csu.net...
| Quote: | : Honda says its technology is fuel
: efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
Honda missed the point.
Their hybrid just too ugly - and the blame falls partly on that funky
looking, fender-covered thing they tried to peddle (the Insight??).
|
That may be true for the Insight, but the Civic and Accord Hybrids look just
like regular Accords and Civics.
Persoanlly, I think the Toyota system is superior, although I remain
unconvinced that I really care that much about hybrids in general. However,
I think the size of the Prius, and the very positive press are major factors
contributing to it sales sucess. Also the distinctive, if unual styling
lets the world know that the driver really cares about the environment. The
enviromentalist driving a Civic Hybrid might not get noticed....
Insight (CVT) - 57 City / 56 Hwy / 56 combined
Insight (manual) - 60 City / 66 Hwy / 63 combined
Civic Hybrid - 49 City / 51 Hwy / 50 combined
Prius - 60 City / 51 Highway / 55 combined
Accord Hybrid (2005) - 29 City / 37 Hwy / 32 combined
Ford Escape (FWD) - 36 City / 31 Hwy / 33 combined
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (FWD) - 33 City / 28 Hwy / 30 combined
Toyota Camry (4 cylinder, 5 sp manual) - 24 City / 34 Hwy / 28 combined
Ed
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:35 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Perhaps they don't want to stand out as not being a very astute buyer who
fell for the hybrid hype? ;)
mike hunt
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2kNaf.4128$2y.1107@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"M. MacDonald" <mmacdon@bc.cc.ca.us> wrote in message
news:WUMaf.134$W4.30594@okeanos.csu.net...
: Honda says its technology is fuel
: efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
Honda missed the point.
Their hybrid just too ugly - and the blame falls partly on that funky
looking, fender-covered thing they tried to peddle (the Insight??).
That may be true for the Insight, but the Civic and Accord Hybrids look
just like regular Accords and Civics.
Persoanlly, I think the Toyota system is superior, although I remain
unconvinced that I really care that much about hybrids in general.
However, I think the size of the Prius, and the very positive press are
major factors contributing to it sales sucess. Also the distinctive, if
unual styling lets the world know that the driver really cares about the
environment. The enviromentalist driving a Civic Hybrid might not get
noticed....
Ed
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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I suppose the reason is the Civic buyer can get a better perspective on the
premium price one must pay to buy a hybrid when looking at the came car with
the different power plants. That premium will buy nearly ALL of the fuel
for a conventional powered Civic. In the case of the Prius most buyers do
not think to compare it to the Corolla for size, price, and fuel mileage.
To say nothing of the fact dealers never mention the huge battery
replacement cost somewhere down the line.
mike hunt
"Steve" <nmvc@kytr.inv> wrote in message
news:vm5nm1lgt0plq6fmmi1phd8jo6vv17ouj7@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
Excerpts from
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_46/b3959057.htm
While the Toyota Prius sells in eight days, the Honda Accord hybrid
takes some two months to exit the lot. The Honda Civic hybrid is no
Prius either - it takes 36 days to move.
Clearly, the Prius's conspicuous display of uber-greenness is key to
its success. But it also features a radically new driving experience.
It's quite a thrill to hit the accelerator and slip along in near
silence.
Not so for Honda hybrids. Because the gasoline engine is working most
of the time - getting an electrical boost during acceleration - it
drives much like a regular car. Honda says its technology is fuel
efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
***************************************************
Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing.
...Robert Benchley |
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Brent Secombe
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:13 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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In article <vm5nm1lgt0plq6fmmi1phd8jo6vv17ouj7@4ax.com>, Steve
<nmvc@kytr.inv> wrote:
| Quote: | Excerpts from
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_46/b3959057.htm
While the Toyota Prius sells in eight days, the Honda Accord hybrid
takes some two months to exit the lot. The Honda Civic hybrid is no
Prius either - it takes 36 days to move.
Clearly, the Prius's conspicuous display of uber-greenness is key to
its success. But it also features a radically new driving experience.
It's quite a thrill to hit the accelerator and slip along in near
silence.
Not so for Honda hybrids. Because the gasoline engine is working most
of the time - getting an electrical boost during acceleration - it
drives much like a regular car. Honda says its technology is fuel
efficient and cheaper, but that may not be enough to wow drivers.
|
Thank you for the exerpts, Steve.
A reason why my wife & I opted for the Prius is that it is such a
*usable* car. The premium MSRP buys you an intelligently designed
transportation system, not just an ordinary car with a modified
propulsion package.
All the hybrids have been pared down in various weight-saving ways, but
sometimes I have to wonder at the decisions. The hybrid Accord, e.g.,
has no spare tire. In its place you get a can of puncture-sealer to
spray in through the valve stem. Fine if your tire picked up a nail,
uselss if it hit road debris; fine if you're in a metropolitan area,
infuriating if the nearest help is the gas station you passed a long
time ago.
There are good ways to save weight. It's instructive to test a hybrid's
body panels with a magnet.
Brent. |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Steve wrote:
The Accord hybrid is almost as bad of an idea as the 8 cylinder powered
VW Passat was (not quite that bad though). Pushing an Accord into
Acura TSX pricing levels really makes no sense.
Now Diesel powered Accords and Civics getting better than hybrid fuel
economy in the real world and selling for no more that a $999 premium
over the gasoline engine car ... that would be a great idea!
John |
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Sapper
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Not if you live in NY or CA though!
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i1Xaf.4029$dU6.3327@trnddc03...
| Quote: | Steve wrote:
Excerpts from
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_46/b3959057.htm While
the Toyota Prius sells in eight days, the Honda Accord hybrid
takes some two months to exit the lot. The Honda Civic hybrid is no
Prius either - it takes 36 days to move.
The Accord hybrid is almost as bad of an idea as the 8 cylinder powered VW
Passat was (not quite that bad though). Pushing an Accord into Acura TSX
pricing levels really makes no sense.
Now Diesel powered Accords and Civics getting better than hybrid fuel
economy in the real world and selling for no more that a $999 premium over
the gasoline engine car ... that would be a great idea!
John |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:52 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Supposedly the low-sulfer fuels will be rolled out in 2006 which should
solve the emissions regulations problems for diesels. Even so, there
are a whole lot of vehicles sold in the other 48 states!
John
Sapper wrote:
| Quote: | Not if you live in NY or CA though!
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i1Xaf.4029$dU6.3327@trnddc03...
Steve wrote:
Excerpts from
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_46/b3959057.htm While
the Toyota Prius sells in eight days, the Honda Accord hybrid
takes some two months to exit the lot. The Honda Civic hybrid is no
Prius either - it takes 36 days to move.
The Accord hybrid is almost as bad of an idea as the 8 cylinder powered VW
Passat was (not quite that bad though). Pushing an Accord into Acura TSX
pricing levels really makes no sense.
Now Diesel powered Accords and Civics getting better than hybrid fuel
economy in the real world and selling for no more that a $999 premium over
the gasoline engine car ... that would be a great idea!
John
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Michael Pardee
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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When we were shopping for a new car three years ago, we only looked at
hybrids. There were four Prius on the lot, and no Civic hybrids to even test
drive, so the choice was pretty much made at that point.
We couldn't be happier. The only repair we've done in those three years is
replacement of a broken windshield. The transmissionless Prius is a joy to
drive; my wife wouldn't have a manual (she knows how but doesn't like it).
There is 50K miles left on the hybrid system warranty (including the
battery... the hybrid system warranty is 10 yrs/150K miles in about half a
dozen states but only 8 yr/100K in AZ). We average upper 40s mpg in real
world driving, more around town where we do the most driving. It's clean,
quiet, comfortable, responsive and superbly maneuverable. What's not to
like?
On the diesel front, count me out. I just got a new work truck last month -
a TDi F350 Super Duty. As a work vehicle there's a lot to like. It gets
easily double the fuel economy of my previous gasser. On the highway, the
power is phenomenal... at 25 psi boost I'm not surprised! Off the line is a
whole different story. Making a left turn across traffic requires great
patience and sometimes the kindness of strangers. I wish I had four feet:
one for the accelerator, one for the clutch, and two more to do the Fred
Flintstone thing. Add in the clatter and smell and it just isn't something
I'd want in a family car.
Mike |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Michael Pardee wrote:
| Quote: | On the diesel front, count me out. I just got a new work truck last month -
a TDi F350 Super Duty.
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A modern automotive diesel powerplant, as about half the new cars sold
in Europe use, is a much different story than the converted tractor
motor Ford is using.
John |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:16 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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The International engine that Ford uses in its light trucks turns a lot
faster then any either one of them us in their farm equipment. ;)
mike hunt
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F3ubf.8839$dU6.6667@trnddc03...
| Quote: | Michael Pardee wrote:
On the diesel front, count me out. I just got a new work truck last
month - a TDi F350 Super Duty.
A modern automotive diesel powerplant, as about half the new cars sold in
Europe use, is a much different story than the converted tractor motor
Ford is using.
John |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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Mike Hunter wrote:
| Quote: | The International engine that Ford uses in its light trucks turns a lot
faster then any either one of them us in their farm equipment. ;)
mike hunt
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Even so, it is at nothing approaching the sophistication level of the
best modern European car diesels.
John |
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C. E. White
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fkBbf.3625$6M6.2717@trnddc04...
| Quote: | Mike Hunter wrote:
The International engine that Ford uses in its light trucks turns a lot
faster then any either one of them us in their farm equipment. ;)
mike hunt
Even so, it is at nothing approaching the sophistication level of the
best modern European car diesels.
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And why do you say that?
http://www.powerstrokedieselstuff.com/product_diesel-tech.asp
Exactly what makes the European diesels so much better? And exactly which
European diesels are the "best modern European car diesels?" And which of
them come close to the power output of the PowerStroke diesel in a Ford
Truck?
The closest European engine I could find was the VW V-10 TDi - 310
Horsepower / 553 ft-lb of torque vs the Powerstrokes 325 hp / 570 ft lb of
torque.
Ed |
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C. E. White
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Hybrids - Toyota vs Honda |
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"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F3ubf.8839$dU6.6667@trnddc03...
| Quote: | Michael Pardee wrote:
On the diesel front, count me out. I just got a new work truck last
month -
a TDi F350 Super Duty.
A modern automotive diesel powerplant, as about half the new cars sold
in Europe use, is a much different story than the converted tractor
motor Ford is using.
|
The PowerStroke diesel in an F350 was a ground up design for the
application.
But actually the highway version of the inline 6 cylinder diesel like I have
in one og my famr tractors was a really good medium truck engine.
Ed |
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