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Jon Patrick
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:14 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in
news:dMmcnapMHqJlL_LeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
| Quote: | The point is statistically their ratings or meaningless to a buyer.
The fact is they don't list which are great cars and which car is
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are you speaking of their testing and ranking of automobiles, or the
reliability rankings?
J
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GLitwinski
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:08 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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You are definitely in need of a clue or two, sir. We bought a used LS400 12
years ago, still have it. CR said it was a very reliable car and it has been
exactly that. No defects at all for first 6 years of our ownership and then
I had to replace a HVAC control unit because of fading display ($200 for a
rebuilt I put in myself). Bought a Yukon XL new in 2000. Gets the same use
level as the LS400. CR says that that model year is less reliable than most
and is prone to electrical problems. After 28,000 miles it has had: failed
electric fuel pump - cost me $400 to replace plus GM kicked in $400 (because
while out of 3-year warranty, it has low miles), defogger tab fell off rear
window and was non-repairable - cost me $420 to replace, ABS sensor failed
due to corrosion causing brakes to not work at very low speeds - cost me
$100 to repair, but there is a recall on this one and I should be
re-imbursed, rear power window failed - cost me $80 to repair with a local
dealer kicking in another $80.
I'd say that has it exactly right for these two vehicles and if I were
buying either used I would take their advice to heart. Thankfully, Yukons
have gotten better and are now average, as I recall, in reliability while
LS430's continue to be much better than average.
Short answer is that CR owner surveys are very valid and do tell you, the
used car buyer, which are the good and which the bad. For the new car buyer
they tell you who has a history of being good and who bad and that is not a
bad way to predict future performance.
- GRL
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:dMmcnapMHqJlL_LeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | The point is statistically their ratings or meaningless to a buyer. The
fact is they don't list which are great cars and which car is crap. The
list them as one compared to another, in the opinion of their few thousand
subscribers who bought ONE of the 18,000,000 sold annually in the US. The
fact is what they are really telling you is ALL manufacture make some that
are not up to snuff. Statically the 'bad' ones are equal to around 2% of
all the vehicles a given manufacture sells. The odds of getting one of
their 'good' ones is 98% no matter how many the manufacture sell in total.
Any buyer therefore has a 98% chance of getting one of ANY manufactures
good ones. Betting the ONE particular vehicle you buy will not be one of
the 2%, based on someone opinion of which one will be the less likely to
leave you with one of the 2%, is therefore foolish at best.
mike
"Jon Patrick" <jonrpatrick@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97073B611C8F8jonrpatrickhotmailco@216.77.188.18...
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in
news:UN2dnUNpy_75-vPeUSdV9g@ptd.net:
Their surveys say more about their subscribers than the vehicles they
rate. For one thing they simply compile a 'list' from best to worst.
If it were three vehicles one would be above average the other below
average, among the three, even if all three are good or bad vehicles.
;)
So, what's your point. Every magazine that tries to 'rank' cars does so
from their perspective, and there is a better-->worse listing for great
cars and for crap. That argument has nothing to do with CR. Further,
they
test a pretty broad cross-section, so their reviews have good points as
to
how some manufacturers are making their cars just a bit better than
others.
IF, however, you're talking about their reliability rankings, you're
still
wrong. CR doesn't create these lists, per se, the subscribers answer a
questionaire and CR reports.
J
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GLitwinski
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Wrong. The Omni may have rated higher than the Horizon with their owners and
it is entirely possible that for a given model year that occurred, but it
would balance after a few years of survey results. No way do I believe that
in a road test one would be rated better than the other.
As for them rating the Reliance as a good buy based on a road test, that may
(or may not - which issue?) true. I rented an Alliance once and while not
powerful by any stretch it was`a remarkably comfortable small car with good
handling and mileage. Drove one 350 highway miles in great comfort. Much
better than American small cars of the same period in that regard. I am sure
that you are not talking about a owner survey reliability result as no
Renault sold into this country has ever been worth a damn as far as
reliability goes.
GRL
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:Z6Kdnf07pd6D-_PeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
| Quote: | Years ago they rated the Dodge Omni as better than the Plymouth Horizon.
The only difference between them was the grill. They also listed the AMC
Alliance as a good buy, at one point. . ;)
mike hunt
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:fSabf.656$4i6.591@fe06.lga...
Like when?
Examples?
"Dennis Smith" <ps2guru@ReMoVyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dkinac$h34$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
In article <hOxaf.5126$AS6.1034@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
ert@nern.com says...
Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars?
No, but the Cobalt and Pontiac G4(not sold in the US) are.
I would ignore anything that Consumer Reports says because they have
clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time and
time again.
--
_________________________________________________________________
Dennis Smith
-1971 Trans Am - 455 H.O. - M21 4speed - Cameo white/blue stripe-
-1973 Trans Am - 455 - TH400 auto - Buccaneer red-
-1984 Trans Am - 5.0 L - TH700R4 auto - Royal blue/silver aero-
_________________________________________________________________
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Consumer Reports can kiss my a55 also. Thanks to their high rating of
the Honda Odyssey I paid 6 grand more than I could have gotten a Lumina
van for. The Odyssey has had 3 trannys put in and numerous other
problems. My fishing buddy has owned 2 Luminas with very few problems
and both went over 130k before he traded, he still makes fun of my
Odyssey with 70k miles on its 3rd tranny. The chevy Astro is rated much
worse than average and I know several folks who have them with between
175k to 200k miles with no big bucks problems. I would not pay CR a bit
of attention. Im still PO at myself for not saving the 6000 bucks on the
chevy! |
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Paul S
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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GlassVial wrote:
| Quote: | Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars?
An American car on Consumer Reports shitlist? Perish the thought by
the biased mother fuckers...I take everything CR says with a grain of
salt, especially when it comes to automobiles. My Chevy Lumina has
186k on it. My friend's 1991 Dodge Grand Caravan has 254k on it. My
other friend's 1984 Chevy Suburban has 450k on it. American cars not
reliable? My ass. FU Consumer Reports!
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Yes, and I am driving (from new) a 1979 Chev G 20 window van. The only
thing that ever went wrong with her was a bad lobe on the cam, of the 350
which I replaced myself for something like $180. She sits most of the
time now but all she needs is to hammer the gas in the spring and she
starts and runs like a trooper. The last real trip she took was Ottawa to
NY to Washington and back. And she cost me $7500 plus a few hundred to
have her delivered to Europe. So the cost of ownership works out to
scarcely more then $300 a year. (The first muffler lasted 18 years.)
BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to
hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you
can buy after market racing seats for $200 to a $1000. Can anyone
recommend a way to improve the comfort of the existing seats?? (Yes we
were looking at an Audi A3) (O:
Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is
important.) |
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Paul S wrote:
| Quote: |
BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to
hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you
can buy after market racing seats for $200 to a $1000. Can anyone
recommend a way to improve the comfort of the existing seats?? (Yes we
were looking at an Audi A3) (O:
Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is
important.)
|
Absolutely, if you are not comfortable in the car then there is no point
owning it. Spending big bucks for aftermarket seats in a new car to get
comfortable makes little sense. Car seats are like shoes - one size
does not fit all.
I would buy whatever car you like and which has seats that suit you.
John |
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Paul S
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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John Horner wrote:
| Quote: | Paul S wrote:
BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to
hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you
can buy after market racing seats for $200 to a $1000. Can anyone
recommend a way to improve the comfort of the existing seats?? (Yes we
were looking at an Audi A3) (O:
Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is
important.)
Absolutely, if you are not comfortable in the car then there is no point
owning it. Spending big bucks for aftermarket seats in a new car to get
comfortable makes little sense. Car seats are like shoes - one size
does not fit all.
I would buy whatever car you like and which has seats that suit you.
John
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I think that's good advice. No Question. It just makes me shake my head when
I think that my daughter will pay $20K more to go to the A3 because she,( I
and my wife) don't like the Cobalt front seats. And yes in a way I am talking
apples to oranges but that's what it comes down to. The daughter wants a
Chevalier sized car (because she's owned two of them) but she is looking for
something a little zippier. |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:22 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Because of my years in the business I'm often asked which vehicle to buy.
Since every manufacture today is building good dependable vehicles I suggest
they drive all those the meets their needs then buy the one with the price
that best suits their budget. I find it strange that any person would buy
any vehicle without first determining if it meets their needs and without
comparing prices.
I was at a LM dealer the other day and they had a 2006 V8 Chrysler 300,
with 2,000 miles on the clock offered, at $31, 995. Seems the seats were
not comfortable enough for the previous owner. The window sticker was in
the car, showing an MSRP of over nearly $39,000 The sales manager told me
they swapped him for a loaded 2006 V8 Grand Marquis LS, and a $500 gas card,
that had an MSRP of $30,200. The dealer also sells Toyota and Lexus. The
price of a loaded V6 Camry on their lot is more than the LS, $30,800
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5godf.1270$%t4.479@trnddc07...
| Quote: | Paul S wrote:
BTW We are thinking of buying a new Cobalt SS but the front seats are to
hard and misshaped. I feel like I am sitting on a dome. I see that you
can buy after market racing seats for $200 to a $1000. Can anyone
recommend a way to improve the comfort of the existing seats?? (Yes we
were looking at an Audi A3) (O:
Thanks!! (Kind of sad to miss a sale over a seat but, butt comfort is
important.)
Absolutely, if you are not comfortable in the car then there is no point
owning it. Spending big bucks for aftermarket seats in a new car to get
comfortable makes little sense. Car seats are like shoes - one size does
not fit all.
I would buy whatever car you like and which has seats that suit you.
John |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:26 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Just like CR opinion of cars it seems, but you are free to believe whatever
you wish, I guess. LOL
mike hunt
"GLitwinski" <GLitwinski@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:Qrbdf.9015$GT3.5134@fe02.lga...
| Quote: | Wrong. The Omni may have rated higher than the Horizon with their owners
and it is entirely possible that for a given model year that occurred, but
it would balance after a few years of survey results. No way do I believe
that in a road test one would be rated better than the other.
As for them rating the Reliance as a good buy based on a road test, that
may (or may not - which issue?) true. I rented an Alliance once and while
not powerful by any stretch it was`a remarkably comfortable small car with
good handling and mileage. Drove one 350 highway miles in great comfort.
Much better than American small cars of the same period in that regard. I
am sure that you are not talking about a owner survey reliability result
as no Renault sold into this country has ever been worth a damn as far as
reliability goes.
GRL
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:Z6Kdnf07pd6D-_PeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
Years ago they rated the Dodge Omni as better than the Plymouth Horizon.
The only difference between them was the grill. They also listed the AMC
Alliance as a good buy, at one point. . ;)
mike hunt
"GRL" <GLitwinski@CHARTERMI.NET> wrote in message
news:fSabf.656$4i6.591@fe06.lga...
Like when?
Examples?
"Dennis Smith" <ps2guru@ReMoVyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dkinac$h34$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
In article <hOxaf.5126$AS6.1034@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
ert@nern.com says...
Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars?
No, but the Cobalt and Pontiac G4(not sold in the US) are.
I would ignore anything that Consumer Reports says because they have
clearly proven that they don't know what they are talking about time
and
time again.
--
_________________________________________________________________
Dennis Smith
-1971 Trans Am - 455 H.O. - M21 4speed - Cameo white/blue stripe-
-1973 Trans Am - 455 - TH400 auto - Buccaneer red-
-1984 Trans Am - 5.0 L - TH700R4 auto - Royal blue/silver aero-
_________________________________________________________________
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John Horner
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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Paul S wrote:
| Quote: |
I think that's good advice. No Question. It just makes me shake my head when
I think that my daughter will pay $20K more to go to the A3 because she,( I
and my wife) don't like the Cobalt front seats. And yes in a way I am talking
apples to oranges but that's what it comes down to. The daughter wants a
Chevalier sized car (because she's owned two of them) but she is looking for
something a little zippier.
|
Obviously there are lots of other choices in that size category besides
the A3 and the Cobalt. One rarely finds those two vehicles as finalists
for a given buyer :).
John |
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James C. Reeves
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ikalm15ql2n349kqbc7t9ebkcbf91ffvc8@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars?
An American car on Consumer Reports shitlist? Perish the thought by
the biased mother fuckers...I take everything CR says with a grain of
salt, especially when it comes to automobiles. My Chevy Lumina has
186k on it. My friend's 1991 Dodge Grand Caravan has 254k on it. My
other friend's 1984 Chevy Suburban has 450k on it. American cars not
reliable? My ass. FU Consumer Reports!
-GV
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I agree! |
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Timothy J. Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:02 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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In article <hOxaf.5126$AS6.1034@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Austrodamous Jones <ert@nern.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Are the Cobalt and Pontiac G6 Sister cars?
|
The Chevrolet Cobalt shares the GM delta platform with the Saturn Ion.
The Pontiac G6 shares the GM epsilon platform with the Chevrolet Malibu,
Chevrolet Malibu MAXX, and Saab 9-3.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. |
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Darren Toews
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:47 am Post subject:
Re: Chevy Cobalt make Consumer Reports Least Reliable List |
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GRL wrote:
| Quote: | Like when?
Examples?
|
When the new Grand Prix came out in 2003 (I think) they went ahead and
panned it in their "review" (I think it was in their New Car Buyer's
Guide for that year), which they came out and said in their article was
based on last years model. The GP had been redesigned, and yet they
bash it and admit that they hadn't had an opportunity to drive the new
model.
Now if you don't like a car after you've driven it, that's one thing but
when you are a supposedly unbiased magazine offering consumer advice and
you bash a car that's just undergone a major redesign (a car that by
your own admission you've not set foot in, let alone taken for a test
drive) because you didn't like the previous model ... that tells me you
came into it with a bias from the get go. |
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