| Author |
Message |
Steve H
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
Borrowed this from a training manual for an advanced ASE diagnostics test.
Thought it would be good for others to read and get a basic understanding of
what happens in a engine and how emissions are formed. I learned a lot
typing it, and I hope it helps me pass the test.
Steve
Exhaust Gas Analyzer
One of the more useful Diagnostic Devices available to a technician is the 4
or 5 gas analyzer. Not only are they readily available, but many of them can
be taken out for a test drive. This feature makes them an ideal tool for
base lining a vehicle that has failed an inspection maintenance test. Most
state inspections are in grams per mile (GPM) of pollutants while most shop
exhaust analyzers measure in Parts Per Million (PPM) or in percentage (%).
The difference does make the readings difficult to compare, but does not
eliminate the use of the shop analyzer for diagnosis purposes. Most
analyzers available today will measure HC in PPM, C0 in %, CO2 on %, and O2
in %. An option to measure NOX in PPM can be added to most units. Lets look
at the individual gases and analyze why they are produced.
Gasoline is comprised of mostly hydrocarbons (HC). When HC is burned it
combines with oxygen (O2) and under ideal conditions produces water (H20)
and carbon dioxide (CO2). Notice the emphasis on the Ideal. To be practical,
ideal conditions really do not exist in engines that have to operate under
varying loads and speeds. As a result, we not only get water and carbon
dioxide but we also see some raw gas come out of the tailpipe (HC) and some
carbon monoxide (CO). Under extreme heat conditions we also see some varying
conditions for excessive HC and CO. Some states additionally check for NOx
You will remember that gasoline was composed of HC and yet after the burn in
the cylinders we still see some HC coming out of the tailpipe, or going into
the catalytic converters. How can this be? The burn in the cylinder is never
totally complete; some gasoline will always be left over. The amount left
over will be relatively small, sometimes as low as 100 PPM. This 100-PPM
will enter the converter and be converted to CO2 and H2O reducing the HC
emissions to near zero. However, lets add another element, a complete
misfire from an open spark plug wire. What will this do?
Think about what should be occurring in a cylinder: we should ignite the HC
with ignition. If ignition never takes place, all of the HC that the fuel
system put into the cylinder will come out the engine and possible the
tailpipe. This may be in excess of 5000 PPM. Quite a difference between 100
PPM and 5000-PPM HC! Actually the amount of HC that will come out of the
cylinder is imposable to predict because of the variables of load, speed,
engine size, temperature, etc., must be calculated in. Put HC into a
cylinder, don't ignite it, and it will exit the cylinder in the same form it
went in - raw gas. HC emissions from dead cylinders are generally easy to
diagnose. Dead cylinders that produce excessive HC are generally the result
of ignition or compression problems isolated to the cylinder in question.
Run a compression test and an ignition scope test and you will probably
identify the problem without much difficulty. Partial burns are much more
difficult to track down. By partial, we mean some of the fuel has been
burned, but not all Again ignition or compression may be at fault. A plug
that tends toward fouling or has a badly eroded gap, or an ignition coil
that has lost some of its capacity might cause part, but not all of the fuel
charge to burn.
Also, weak or lower compression might cause the cylinder to only partially
burn the fuel. A partial burn will result in increased HC emissions. Another
factor to consider besides compression or ignition is fuel control. Fuel
control is a simple way of saying that the air fuel ratio is held within
design parameters of the engine. Generally this is 1407:1 (14.7 pounds of
air to 1 lb of fuel). If the fuel system cannot hold or control this ratio
then the engine is not in fuel control
Lets look at the two ends of not being in fuel control, too rich or too
lean. Adding much more fuel than the engine needs or is designed to handle
(running rich) can produce an inefficient burn in the cylinder. This usually
results in excessive C0 production, as you will se in the next section,
however it can increase HC emissions. If the cylinder has way too much fuel,
some of it might not be ignited. You know what happens when we do not ignite
the fuel - it comes out as HC, just like it went into the engine. An
excessively rich engine will increase the HC emissions. At the other end of
not being in fuel control is the too lean condition. Being "too lean" is
another way of saying an excessive amount of air has entered the cylinder:
excessive for the amount of fuel.
Another way of saying this would be to say that a smaller amount of fuel
than specified is in the cylinder. A partially plugged fuel injector, or a
vacuum leak are both examples of a lean condition. Cut back on the fuel and
add the air and you are creating a lean condition. If the cylinder is
running lean, than the burn within the cylinder will result in excessive HC,
because the amount of fuel present does not support combustion. This is
generally referred to as a "lean misfire" There was fuel in the cylinder,
but not enough to burn and produce power. This smaller than specified fuel
charge will exit the engine as HC.
Make no mistake about it; a vehicle that is not in fuel control can and
frequently does produce excessive HC. Go back to the basics, for cylinders
to produce equal power they must have equal compression, ignition and be in
fuel control.
CO Emissions are generally related to whether the vehicle is in fuel control
or not. The "O" in CO stands for oxygen. If we burn fuel with sufficient
oxygen then we will produce CO2. It takes two O's to produce CO2 and only
one to produce CO. This is why a rich running vehicle produces more CO than
it should. More fuel in the cylinder will normally require more oxygen.
Because of the rich condition, there is insufficient oxygen for the amount
of fuel - this will produce CO because it is easier to produce. It will take
more air (oxygen), which means the system must run leaner, to lower the CO
production and increase the CO2 production. A correctly functioning engine
will generally produce very low levels of CO (1-2%), which will be converted
into more CO2 in the catalytic converter.
A vehicle that is in fuel control and has a functioning catalytic converter
will generally have near zero CO out the tailpipe.
We have repeatedly referred to CO2 production and hinted that it will go up
if everything if functioning OK. Specifically, CO2 Levels for a vehicle with
good ignition, compression, fuel control and a functioning converter will
generally be in the teens (13.0% - 19.0%). View the CO2 Levels as an
indication of efficiency - the higher the better!
Another byproduct of incorrect combustion is Nitric Oxide NOx. NOx is
produced in excess if the internal temperature of the cylinder gets around
2500 degrees F. At this temperature the nitrogen in the air becomes unstable
and reacts with the oxygen (o). This forms NOx. NOx is measured in parts per
million and is generally is less than 50 - 100 PPM. Think about the
conditions within the engine that will contribute to higher temperature.
They include lean mixture, Carbon in combustion chambers, EGR problems,
preheaters stuck in the heat position, advanced timing etc.
Anything that will add heat to the chamber will generally allow for
increased production of NOx. To be practical, NOx production is almost
always the result of one of three items; advanced timing, carbon or an EGR
problem. The exception to this statement is if the vehicle is not in fuel
control on the lean side. A leaner cylinder will run hotter and therefore
produce more NOx than desired. Notice that we are back looking at being in
fuel control as an issue again. There is probably no single item as
important as being in fuel control for reducing emissions. If the air fuel
ratio can be held tightly to the 14.7:1 ideal, emissions will be reduced,
except CO2 which will increase.
If the vehicle has been running rich and has failed for CO, your repair will
probably increase the production of NOx. A rich running engine will tend to
become carboned up, which increases the compression ratio. Once you have
leaned the engine to the correct ratio, the carbon will increase the
temperature of the cylinder and there goes the NOX
|
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qslim
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
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| Are you taking L1 this fall? |
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Steve H
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
Yes, on the 15th of November. First time for this test and I live in a no
emissions area so using a gas analyzer is rare in our shop. I plan to buy a
laptop with an adaptor to learn more about the practicality of it during
diagnosis, and to farther my knowledge. (+more money)
--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Undercar Specialist
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/
"qslim" <Suckers@suckersdotcom> wrote in message
news:58b446519d3a7ddf33355e6ee896975a@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
| Quote: | Are you taking L1 this fall?
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qslim
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:51 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
Cool. I went through the same thing. Though here in DC we have emissions
tests, the dealer I work for doesn't have a dyno. And since I probably
used our gas analyzer 3 or 4 times in 5 years, practical emission
experience has always been hard to come by. I passed it doing the same
thing as you; buy a couple of books and hunker down for a few months.
I was suprised how general a lot of the test was. There were plenty of
questions involving the interpretation of tailpipe readings, but there
were a lot of questions in which I had to draw on things I remembered from
the other A-series tests. I thought it was real thorough, much more so than
any of the others. Good luck. |
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Dave
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:55 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
In article <QeZ8f.1576$qk4.463@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Steve H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Borrowed this from a training manual for an advanced ASE diagnostics test.
Thought it would be good for others to read and get a basic understanding of
what happens in a engine and how emissions are formed. I learned a lot
typing it, and I hope it helps me pass the test.
...
Specifically, CO2 Levels for a vehicle with
good ignition, compression, fuel control and a functioning converter will
generally be in the teens (13.0% - 19.0%). View the CO2 Levels as an
indication of efficiency - the higher the better!
|
I'm curious how they can get a CO2 as high as 19% (and consider
that "better"). Does the manual say? Complete stoichiometric
combustion would result in a number close to 13% (15% on a "dry"
basis).
Anyway, good luck on the test! |
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Ray O
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
"Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YMOdnS_SbdYgdfvenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Will excessive NO emission cut the life span of the catalytic converter???
|
No.
| Quote: |
I recently took my 98 Civic with 260,000km and original emission system
for
a test. CO is 0%, HC is 0% and NOX is about 300ppm (I'm not sure about
those
results and need to confirm them)
From those results (assuming they're correct), I'm assuming that the car
is
working properly, but the timing is advanced and the car is running lean.
(Which would make sense since my 98 was noticeably more powerful then the
06
Civic coupe, I recently test drove).
|
If you have a distributor-less ignition system, timing may not be adjustable
on your car. If timing is correct, then the engine could be too lean
(possibly due to clogged injectors), you could have carbon buildup, or an
EGR problem. Since you say that performance is good, I'd lean towards the
EGR system.
| Quote: |
When my car was newer and NOX was near to 0%, I was only able to get about
550km from a fill-up. Now, with the lean mixture, I'm able to get 650km
per
fill-up.
The question is, which setup is more environmentally friendly, considering
that I get an extra 100km per tank from a setup that's not standard.
Pars
|
If the problem is due to a stuck EGR, you could fix it and have little or no
effect on fuel economy.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
| Quote: |
"Steve H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QeZ8f.1576$qk4.463@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Borrowed this from a training manual for an advanced ASE diagnostics
test.
Thought it would be good for others to read and get a basic understanding
of
what happens in a engine and how emissions are formed. I learned a lot
typing it, and I hope it helps me pass the test.
Steve
Exhaust Gas Analyzer
One of the more useful Diagnostic Devices available to a technician is
the
4
or 5 gas analyzer. Not only are they readily available, but many of them
can
be taken out for a test drive. This feature makes them an ideal tool for
base lining a vehicle that has failed an inspection maintenance test.
Most
state inspections are in grams per mile (GPM) of pollutants while most
shop
exhaust analyzers measure in Parts Per Million (PPM) or in percentage
(%).
The difference does make the readings difficult to compare, but does not
eliminate the use of the shop analyzer for diagnosis purposes. Most
analyzers available today will measure HC in PPM, C0 in %, CO2 on %, and
O2
in %. An option to measure NOX in PPM can be added to most units. Lets
look
at the individual gases and analyze why they are produced.
Gasoline is comprised of mostly hydrocarbons (HC). When HC is burned it
combines with oxygen (O2) and under ideal conditions produces water (H20)
and carbon dioxide (CO2). Notice the emphasis on the Ideal. To be
practical,
ideal conditions really do not exist in engines that have to operate
under
varying loads and speeds. As a result, we not only get water and carbon
dioxide but we also see some raw gas come out of the tailpipe (HC) and
some
carbon monoxide (CO). Under extreme heat conditions we also see some
varying
conditions for excessive HC and CO. Some states additionally check for
NOx
You will remember that gasoline was composed of HC and yet after the burn
in
the cylinders we still see some HC coming out of the tailpipe, or going
into
the catalytic converters. How can this be? The burn in the cylinder is
never
totally complete; some gasoline will always be left over. The amount left
over will be relatively small, sometimes as low as 100 PPM. This 100-PPM
will enter the converter and be converted to CO2 and H2O reducing the HC
emissions to near zero. However, lets add another element, a complete
misfire from an open spark plug wire. What will this do?
Think about what should be occurring in a cylinder: we should ignite the
HC
with ignition. If ignition never takes place, all of the HC that the fuel
system put into the cylinder will come out the engine and possible the
tailpipe. This may be in excess of 5000 PPM. Quite a difference between
100
PPM and 5000-PPM HC! Actually the amount of HC that will come out of the
cylinder is imposable to predict because of the variables of load, speed,
engine size, temperature, etc., must be calculated in. Put HC into a
cylinder, don't ignite it, and it will exit the cylinder in the same form
it
went in - raw gas. HC emissions from dead cylinders are generally easy to
diagnose. Dead cylinders that produce excessive HC are generally the
result
of ignition or compression problems isolated to the cylinder in question.
Run a compression test and an ignition scope test and you will probably
identify the problem without much difficulty. Partial burns are much more
difficult to track down. By partial, we mean some of the fuel has been
burned, but not all Again ignition or compression may be at fault. A plug
that tends toward fouling or has a badly eroded gap, or an ignition coil
that has lost some of its capacity might cause part, but not all of the
fuel
charge to burn.
Also, weak or lower compression might cause the cylinder to only
partially
burn the fuel. A partial burn will result in increased HC emissions.
Another
factor to consider besides compression or ignition is fuel control. Fuel
control is a simple way of saying that the air fuel ratio is held within
design parameters of the engine. Generally this is 1407:1 (14.7 pounds of
air to 1 lb of fuel). If the fuel system cannot hold or control this
ratio
then the engine is not in fuel control
Lets look at the two ends of not being in fuel control, too rich or too
lean. Adding much more fuel than the engine needs or is designed to
handle
(running rich) can produce an inefficient burn in the cylinder. This
usually
results in excessive C0 production, as you will se in the next section,
however it can increase HC emissions. If the cylinder has way too much
fuel,
some of it might not be ignited. You know what happens when we do not
ignite
the fuel - it comes out as HC, just like it went into the engine. An
excessively rich engine will increase the HC emissions. At the other end
of
not being in fuel control is the too lean condition. Being "too lean" is
another way of saying an excessive amount of air has entered the
cylinder:
excessive for the amount of fuel.
Another way of saying this would be to say that a smaller amount of fuel
than specified is in the cylinder. A partially plugged fuel injector, or
a
vacuum leak are both examples of a lean condition. Cut back on the fuel
and
add the air and you are creating a lean condition. If the cylinder is
running lean, than the burn within the cylinder will result in excessive
HC,
because the amount of fuel present does not support combustion. This is
generally referred to as a "lean misfire" There was fuel in the cylinder,
but not enough to burn and produce power. This smaller than specified
fuel
charge will exit the engine as HC.
Make no mistake about it; a vehicle that is not in fuel control can and
frequently does produce excessive HC. Go back to the basics, for
cylinders
to produce equal power they must have equal compression, ignition and be
in
fuel control.
CO Emissions are generally related to whether the vehicle is in fuel
control
or not. The "O" in CO stands for oxygen. If we burn fuel with sufficient
oxygen then we will produce CO2. It takes two O's to produce CO2 and only
one to produce CO. This is why a rich running vehicle produces more CO
than
it should. More fuel in the cylinder will normally require more oxygen.
Because of the rich condition, there is insufficient oxygen for the
amount
of fuel - this will produce CO because it is easier to produce. It will
take
more air (oxygen), which means the system must run leaner, to lower the
CO
production and increase the CO2 production. A correctly functioning
engine
will generally produce very low levels of CO (1-2%), which will be
converted
into more CO2 in the catalytic converter.
A vehicle that is in fuel control and has a functioning catalytic
converter
will generally have near zero CO out the tailpipe.
We have repeatedly referred to CO2 production and hinted that it will go
up
if everything if functioning OK. Specifically, CO2 Levels for a vehicle
with
good ignition, compression, fuel control and a functioning converter will
generally be in the teens (13.0% - 19.0%). View the CO2 Levels as an
indication of efficiency - the higher the better!
Another byproduct of incorrect combustion is Nitric Oxide NOx. NOx is
produced in excess if the internal temperature of the cylinder gets
around
2500 degrees F. At this temperature the nitrogen in the air becomes
unstable
and reacts with the oxygen (o). This forms NOx. NOx is measured in parts
per
million and is generally is less than 50 - 100 PPM. Think about the
conditions within the engine that will contribute to higher temperature.
They include lean mixture, Carbon in combustion chambers, EGR problems,
preheaters stuck in the heat position, advanced timing etc.
Anything that will add heat to the chamber will generally allow for
increased production of NOx. To be practical, NOx production is almost
always the result of one of three items; advanced timing, carbon or an
EGR
problem. The exception to this statement is if the vehicle is not in fuel
control on the lean side. A leaner cylinder will run hotter and therefore
produce more NOx than desired. Notice that we are back looking at being
in
fuel control as an issue again. There is probably no single item as
important as being in fuel control for reducing emissions. If the air
fuel
ratio can be held tightly to the 14.7:1 ideal, emissions will be reduced,
except CO2 which will increase.
If the vehicle has been running rich and has failed for CO, your repair
will
probably increase the production of NOx. A rich running engine will tend
to
become carboned up, which increases the compression ratio. Once you have
leaned the engine to the correct ratio, the carbon will increase the
temperature of the cylinder and there goes the NOX
|
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| Back to top |
|
|
Pars
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:19 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
Will excessive NO emission cut the life span of the catalytic converter???
I recently took my 98 Civic with 260,000km and original emission system for
a test. CO is 0%, HC is 0% and NOX is about 300ppm (I'm not sure about those
results and need to confirm them)
From those results (assuming they're correct), I'm assuming that the car is
working properly, but the timing is advanced and the car is running lean.
(Which would make sense since my 98 was noticeably more powerful then the 06
Civic coupe, I recently test drove).
When my car was newer and NOX was near to 0%, I was only able to get about
550km from a fill-up. Now, with the lean mixture, I'm able to get 650km per
fill-up.
The question is, which setup is more environmentally friendly, considering
that I get an extra 100km per tank from a setup that's not standard.
Pars
"Steve H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QeZ8f.1576$qk4.463@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Borrowed this from a training manual for an advanced ASE diagnostics test.
Thought it would be good for others to read and get a basic understanding
of
what happens in a engine and how emissions are formed. I learned a lot
typing it, and I hope it helps me pass the test.
Steve
Exhaust Gas Analyzer
One of the more useful Diagnostic Devices available to a technician is the
4
or 5 gas analyzer. Not only are they readily available, but many of them
can
be taken out for a test drive. This feature makes them an ideal tool for
base lining a vehicle that has failed an inspection maintenance test.
Most
state inspections are in grams per mile (GPM) of pollutants while most
shop
exhaust analyzers measure in Parts Per Million (PPM) or in percentage (%).
The difference does make the readings difficult to compare, but does not
eliminate the use of the shop analyzer for diagnosis purposes. Most
analyzers available today will measure HC in PPM, C0 in %, CO2 on %, and
O2
in %. An option to measure NOX in PPM can be added to most units. Lets
look
at the individual gases and analyze why they are produced.
Gasoline is comprised of mostly hydrocarbons (HC). When HC is burned it
combines with oxygen (O2) and under ideal conditions produces water (H20)
and carbon dioxide (CO2). Notice the emphasis on the Ideal. To be
practical,
ideal conditions really do not exist in engines that have to operate under
varying loads and speeds. As a result, we not only get water and carbon
dioxide but we also see some raw gas come out of the tailpipe (HC) and
some
carbon monoxide (CO). Under extreme heat conditions we also see some
varying
conditions for excessive HC and CO. Some states additionally check for NOx
You will remember that gasoline was composed of HC and yet after the burn
in
the cylinders we still see some HC coming out of the tailpipe, or going
into
the catalytic converters. How can this be? The burn in the cylinder is
never
totally complete; some gasoline will always be left over. The amount left
over will be relatively small, sometimes as low as 100 PPM. This 100-PPM
will enter the converter and be converted to CO2 and H2O reducing the HC
emissions to near zero. However, lets add another element, a complete
misfire from an open spark plug wire. What will this do?
Think about what should be occurring in a cylinder: we should ignite the
HC
with ignition. If ignition never takes place, all of the HC that the fuel
system put into the cylinder will come out the engine and possible the
tailpipe. This may be in excess of 5000 PPM. Quite a difference between
100
PPM and 5000-PPM HC! Actually the amount of HC that will come out of the
cylinder is imposable to predict because of the variables of load, speed,
engine size, temperature, etc., must be calculated in. Put HC into a
cylinder, don't ignite it, and it will exit the cylinder in the same form
it
went in - raw gas. HC emissions from dead cylinders are generally easy to
diagnose. Dead cylinders that produce excessive HC are generally the
result
of ignition or compression problems isolated to the cylinder in question.
Run a compression test and an ignition scope test and you will probably
identify the problem without much difficulty. Partial burns are much more
difficult to track down. By partial, we mean some of the fuel has been
burned, but not all Again ignition or compression may be at fault. A plug
that tends toward fouling or has a badly eroded gap, or an ignition coil
that has lost some of its capacity might cause part, but not all of the
fuel
charge to burn.
Also, weak or lower compression might cause the cylinder to only partially
burn the fuel. A partial burn will result in increased HC emissions.
Another
factor to consider besides compression or ignition is fuel control. Fuel
control is a simple way of saying that the air fuel ratio is held within
design parameters of the engine. Generally this is 1407:1 (14.7 pounds of
air to 1 lb of fuel). If the fuel system cannot hold or control this ratio
then the engine is not in fuel control
Lets look at the two ends of not being in fuel control, too rich or too
lean. Adding much more fuel than the engine needs or is designed to handle
(running rich) can produce an inefficient burn in the cylinder. This
usually
results in excessive C0 production, as you will se in the next section,
however it can increase HC emissions. If the cylinder has way too much
fuel,
some of it might not be ignited. You know what happens when we do not
ignite
the fuel - it comes out as HC, just like it went into the engine. An
excessively rich engine will increase the HC emissions. At the other end
of
not being in fuel control is the too lean condition. Being "too lean" is
another way of saying an excessive amount of air has entered the cylinder:
excessive for the amount of fuel.
Another way of saying this would be to say that a smaller amount of fuel
than specified is in the cylinder. A partially plugged fuel injector, or a
vacuum leak are both examples of a lean condition. Cut back on the fuel
and
add the air and you are creating a lean condition. If the cylinder is
running lean, than the burn within the cylinder will result in excessive
HC,
because the amount of fuel present does not support combustion. This is
generally referred to as a "lean misfire" There was fuel in the cylinder,
but not enough to burn and produce power. This smaller than specified fuel
charge will exit the engine as HC.
Make no mistake about it; a vehicle that is not in fuel control can and
frequently does produce excessive HC. Go back to the basics, for cylinders
to produce equal power they must have equal compression, ignition and be
in
fuel control.
CO Emissions are generally related to whether the vehicle is in fuel
control
or not. The "O" in CO stands for oxygen. If we burn fuel with sufficient
oxygen then we will produce CO2. It takes two O's to produce CO2 and only
one to produce CO. This is why a rich running vehicle produces more CO
than
it should. More fuel in the cylinder will normally require more oxygen.
Because of the rich condition, there is insufficient oxygen for the amount
of fuel - this will produce CO because it is easier to produce. It will
take
more air (oxygen), which means the system must run leaner, to lower the CO
production and increase the CO2 production. A correctly functioning engine
will generally produce very low levels of CO (1-2%), which will be
converted
into more CO2 in the catalytic converter.
A vehicle that is in fuel control and has a functioning catalytic
converter
will generally have near zero CO out the tailpipe.
We have repeatedly referred to CO2 production and hinted that it will go
up
if everything if functioning OK. Specifically, CO2 Levels for a vehicle
with
good ignition, compression, fuel control and a functioning converter will
generally be in the teens (13.0% - 19.0%). View the CO2 Levels as an
indication of efficiency - the higher the better!
Another byproduct of incorrect combustion is Nitric Oxide NOx. NOx is
produced in excess if the internal temperature of the cylinder gets around
2500 degrees F. At this temperature the nitrogen in the air becomes
unstable
and reacts with the oxygen (o). This forms NOx. NOx is measured in parts
per
million and is generally is less than 50 - 100 PPM. Think about the
conditions within the engine that will contribute to higher temperature.
They include lean mixture, Carbon in combustion chambers, EGR problems,
preheaters stuck in the heat position, advanced timing etc.
Anything that will add heat to the chamber will generally allow for
increased production of NOx. To be practical, NOx production is almost
always the result of one of three items; advanced timing, carbon or an EGR
problem. The exception to this statement is if the vehicle is not in fuel
control on the lean side. A leaner cylinder will run hotter and therefore
produce more NOx than desired. Notice that we are back looking at being in
fuel control as an issue again. There is probably no single item as
important as being in fuel control for reducing emissions. If the air fuel
ratio can be held tightly to the 14.7:1 ideal, emissions will be reduced,
except CO2 which will increase.
If the vehicle has been running rich and has failed for CO, your repair
will
probably increase the production of NOx. A rich running engine will tend
to
become carboned up, which increases the compression ratio. Once you have
leaned the engine to the correct ratio, the carbon will increase the
temperature of the cylinder and there goes the NOX
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Michael Pardee
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
"Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:YMOdnS_SbdYgdfvenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Will excessive NO emission cut the life span of the catalytic converter???
I recently took my 98 Civic with 260,000km and original emission system
for
a test. CO is 0%, HC is 0% and NOX is about 300ppm (I'm not sure about
those
results and need to confirm them)
From those results (assuming they're correct), I'm assuming that the car
is
working properly, but the timing is advanced and the car is running lean.
(Which would make sense since my 98 was noticeably more powerful then the
06
Civic coupe, I recently test drove).
When my car was newer and NOX was near to 0%, I was only able to get about
550km from a fill-up. Now, with the lean mixture, I'm able to get 650km
per
fill-up.
The question is, which setup is more environmentally friendly, considering
that I get an extra 100km per tank from a setup that's not standard.
Pars
Looking at the larger picture helps. The engine isn't likely to be running |
lean, since the mixture is controlled by feedback from the front O2 sensor.
Your '98 should be OBDII controlled if you are in North America, so if the
sensor were soft or failing the "check engine" light would be on. The timing
could be advanced, but I wouldn't expect it... assuming you aren't getting
"ping."
The two unknowns are EGR operation and the catalyst. EGR operation is
loosely monitored and the catalyst is monitored for CO operation, but there
is room for trouble in either of those. EGR is notorious for needing service
after dealing with hundreds of thousands of km of exhaust. Most modern
converters are "3 stage" - they have separate stages for breaking down CO,
HC and NOx. Often the NOx stage is the first to go, for reasons I don't
know.
If or when it reaches the point of having to do something about it (or is
that now?), having a few years of history helps. Catalyst failures usually
show up as a long, slow slide, while EGR failures tend to get worse more
quickly. The catalyst can also be evaluated by a professional with a way of
measuring temperature of each stage; if the stage is running cool and the
emission output is high, it isn't doing the job any more.
Mike |
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SoCalMike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
Pars wrote:
| Quote: | Me too. Also, the old Catalytic converter could be also contributing to
higher readings. I checked my results and the NOX is actually 220ppm (which
is about 2/5 under the allowable limit).
|
FWIW, on my 98 CX, all my levels were *lower* on my 2005 smog check as
compared to my 2003 smog check.
main reason? the top (manifold) O2 sensor failed (MIL, and
everything!)in 2004. |
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Pars
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
| Quote: | Will excessive NO emission cut the life span of the catalytic
converter???
I recently took my 98 Civic with 260,000km and original emission system
for
a test. CO is 0%, HC is 0% and NOX is about 300ppm (I'm not sure about
those
results and need to confirm them)
From those results (assuming they're correct), I'm assuming that the car
is
working properly, but the timing is advanced and the car is running
lean.
(Which would make sense since my 98 was noticeably more powerful then
the
06
Civic coupe, I recently test drove).
When my car was newer and NOX was near to 0%, I was only able to get
about
550km from a fill-up. Now, with the lean mixture, I'm able to get 650km
per
fill-up.
The question is, which setup is more environmentally friendly,
considering
that I get an extra 100km per tank from a setup that's not standard.
Pars
Looking at the larger picture helps. The engine isn't likely to be running
lean, since the mixture is controlled by feedback from the front O2
sensor.
Your '98 should be OBDII controlled if you are in North America, so if the
sensor were soft or failing the "check engine" light would be on. The
timing
could be advanced, but I wouldn't expect it... assuming you aren't getting
"ping."
|
I do get 'pinged', unless I'm using premium gas. Since gas prices are very
high, the extra cost for premium seems negligible compared to the overall
gas prices.
Shell's premium gas returns comparable mileage when compared to the regular
blend. Otherwise, switching to higher Octane gas (in my car) normally would
reduce fuel consumption.
| Quote: |
The two unknowns are EGR operation and the catalyst. EGR operation is
loosely monitored and the catalyst is monitored for CO operation, but
there
is room for trouble in either of those. EGR is notorious for needing
service
after dealing with hundreds of thousands of km of exhaust. Most modern
converters are "3 stage" - they have separate stages for breaking down CO,
HC and NOx. Often the NOx stage is the first to go, for reasons I don't
know.
If or when it reaches the point of having to do something about it (or is
that now?),
|
Nope, I still have aways to go before it would fail. My last ready, for NOX,
was about 220ppm and the limit was at about 550ppm.
having a few years of history helps. Catalyst failures usually
| Quote: | show up as a long, slow slide, while EGR failures tend to get worse more
quickly. The catalyst can also be evaluated by a professional with a way
of
measuring temperature of each stage; if the stage is running cool and the
emission output is high, it isn't doing the job any more.
|
In my last emission test (2 yrs ago), my NOX emission was similar to the
current reading. If the EGR is quick to fail once it start to go bad, the
poor reading would point toward Catalytic converter.
|
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Pars
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
| Quote: | Will excessive NO emission cut the life span of the catalytic
converter???
No.
I recently took my 98 Civic with 260,000km and original emission system
for
a test. CO is 0%, HC is 0% and NOX is about 300ppm (I'm not sure about
those
results and need to confirm them)
From those results (assuming they're correct), I'm assuming that the car
is
working properly, but the timing is advanced and the car is running
lean.
(Which would make sense since my 98 was noticeably more powerful then
the
06
Civic coupe, I recently test drove).
If you have a distributor-less ignition system, timing may not be
adjustable
on your car. If timing is correct, then the engine could be too lean
(possibly due to clogged injectors), you could have carbon buildup, or an
EGR problem. Since you say that performance is good, I'd lean towards the
EGR system.
|
Me too. Also, the old Catalytic converter could be also contributing to
higher readings. I checked my results and the NOX is actually 220ppm (which
is about 2/5 under the allowable limit).
| Quote: |
When my car was newer and NOX was near to 0%, I was only able to get
about
550km from a fill-up. Now, with the lean mixture, I'm able to get 650km
per
fill-up.
The question is, which setup is more environmentally friendly,
considering
that I get an extra 100km per tank from a setup that's not standard.
If the problem is due to a stuck EGR, you could fix it and have little or
no
effect on fuel economy.
|
There's very little available power when you're rolling up a slight incline,
while in 5th gear at about 1200rpm (without having to go down on the
accelerator). If a properly working EGR is going to take 1/10th of the power
out of the above scenario, it would mean that I'd need to cruise around in
4th gear instead of 5th and then my city mileage would go down the shithole.
Pars
| Quote: |
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
"Steve H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QeZ8f.1576$qk4.463@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Borrowed this from a training manual for an advanced ASE diagnostics
test.
Thought it would be good for others to read and get a basic
understanding
of
what happens in a engine and how emissions are formed. I learned a lot
typing it, and I hope it helps me pass the test.
Steve
Exhaust Gas Analyzer
One of the more useful Diagnostic Devices available to a technician is
the
4
or 5 gas analyzer. Not only are they readily available, but many of
them
can
be taken out for a test drive. This feature makes them an ideal tool
for
base lining a vehicle that has failed an inspection maintenance test.
Most
state inspections are in grams per mile (GPM) of pollutants while most
shop
exhaust analyzers measure in Parts Per Million (PPM) or in percentage
(%).
The difference does make the readings difficult to compare, but does
not
eliminate the use of the shop analyzer for diagnosis purposes. Most
analyzers available today will measure HC in PPM, C0 in %, CO2 on %,
and
O2
in %. An option to measure NOX in PPM can be added to most units. Lets
look
at the individual gases and analyze why they are produced.
Gasoline is comprised of mostly hydrocarbons (HC). When HC is burned it
combines with oxygen (O2) and under ideal conditions produces water
(H20)
and carbon dioxide (CO2). Notice the emphasis on the Ideal. To be
practical,
ideal conditions really do not exist in engines that have to operate
under
varying loads and speeds. As a result, we not only get water and carbon
dioxide but we also see some raw gas come out of the tailpipe (HC) and
some
carbon monoxide (CO). Under extreme heat conditions we also see some
varying
conditions for excessive HC and CO. Some states additionally check for
NOx
You will remember that gasoline was composed of HC and yet after the
burn
in
the cylinders we still see some HC coming out of the tailpipe, or going
into
the catalytic converters. How can this be? The burn in the cylinder is
never
totally complete; some gasoline will always be left over. The amount
left
over will be relatively small, sometimes as low as 100 PPM. This
100-PPM
will enter the converter and be converted to CO2 and H2O reducing the
HC
emissions to near zero. However, lets add another element, a complete
misfire from an open spark plug wire. What will this do?
Think about what should be occurring in a cylinder: we should ignite
the
HC
with ignition. If ignition never takes place, all of the HC that the
fuel
system put into the cylinder will come out the engine and possible the
tailpipe. This may be in excess of 5000 PPM. Quite a difference between
100
PPM and 5000-PPM HC! Actually the amount of HC that will come out of
the
cylinder is imposable to predict because of the variables of load,
speed,
engine size, temperature, etc., must be calculated in. Put HC into a
cylinder, don't ignite it, and it will exit the cylinder in the same
form
it
went in - raw gas. HC emissions from dead cylinders are generally easy
to
diagnose. Dead cylinders that produce excessive HC are generally the
result
of ignition or compression problems isolated to the cylinder in
question.
Run a compression test and an ignition scope test and you will probably
identify the problem without much difficulty. Partial burns are much
more
difficult to track down. By partial, we mean some of the fuel has been
burned, but not all Again ignition or compression may be at fault. A
plug
that tends toward fouling or has a badly eroded gap, or an ignition
coil
that has lost some of its capacity might cause part, but not all of the
fuel
charge to burn.
Also, weak or lower compression might cause the cylinder to only
partially
burn the fuel. A partial burn will result in increased HC emissions.
Another
factor to consider besides compression or ignition is fuel control.
Fuel
control is a simple way of saying that the air fuel ratio is held
within
design parameters of the engine. Generally this is 1407:1 (14.7 pounds
of
air to 1 lb of fuel). If the fuel system cannot hold or control this
ratio
then the engine is not in fuel control
Lets look at the two ends of not being in fuel control, too rich or too
lean. Adding much more fuel than the engine needs or is designed to
handle
(running rich) can produce an inefficient burn in the cylinder. This
usually
results in excessive C0 production, as you will se in the next section,
however it can increase HC emissions. If the cylinder has way too much
fuel,
some of it might not be ignited. You know what happens when we do not
ignite
the fuel - it comes out as HC, just like it went into the engine. An
excessively rich engine will increase the HC emissions. At the other
end
of
not being in fuel control is the too lean condition. Being "too lean"
is
another way of saying an excessive amount of air has entered the
cylinder:
excessive for the amount of fuel.
Another way of saying this would be to say that a smaller amount of
fuel
than specified is in the cylinder. A partially plugged fuel injector,
or
a
vacuum leak are both examples of a lean condition. Cut back on the fuel
and
add the air and you are creating a lean condition. If the cylinder is
running lean, than the burn within the cylinder will result in
excessive
HC,
because the amount of fuel present does not support combustion. This is
generally referred to as a "lean misfire" There was fuel in the
cylinder,
but not enough to burn and produce power. This smaller than specified
fuel
charge will exit the engine as HC.
Make no mistake about it; a vehicle that is not in fuel control can and
frequently does produce excessive HC. Go back to the basics, for
cylinders
to produce equal power they must have equal compression, ignition and
be
in
fuel control.
CO Emissions are generally related to whether the vehicle is in fuel
control
or not. The "O" in CO stands for oxygen. If we burn fuel with
sufficient
oxygen then we will produce CO2. It takes two O's to produce CO2 and
only
one to produce CO. This is why a rich running vehicle produces more CO
than
it should. More fuel in the cylinder will normally require more oxygen.
Because of the rich condition, there is insufficient oxygen for the
amount
of fuel - this will produce CO because it is easier to produce. It will
take
more air (oxygen), which means the system must run leaner, to lower the
CO
production and increase the CO2 production. A correctly functioning
engine
will generally produce very low levels of CO (1-2%), which will be
converted
into more CO2 in the catalytic converter.
A vehicle that is in fuel control and has a functioning catalytic
converter
will generally have near zero CO out the tailpipe.
We have repeatedly referred to CO2 production and hinted that it will
go
up
if everything if functioning OK. Specifically, CO2 Levels for a vehicle
with
good ignition, compression, fuel control and a functioning converter
will
generally be in the teens (13.0% - 19.0%). View the CO2 Levels as an
indication of efficiency - the higher the better!
Another byproduct of incorrect combustion is Nitric Oxide NOx. NOx is
produced in excess if the internal temperature of the cylinder gets
around
2500 degrees F. At this temperature the nitrogen in the air becomes
unstable
and reacts with the oxygen (o). This forms NOx. NOx is measured in
parts
per
million and is generally is less than 50 - 100 PPM. Think about the
conditions within the engine that will contribute to higher
temperature.
They include lean mixture, Carbon in combustion chambers, EGR problems,
preheaters stuck in the heat position, advanced timing etc.
Anything that will add heat to the chamber will generally allow for
increased production of NOx. To be practical, NOx production is almost
always the result of one of three items; advanced timing, carbon or an
EGR
problem. The exception to this statement is if the vehicle is not in
fuel
control on the lean side. A leaner cylinder will run hotter and
therefore
produce more NOx than desired. Notice that we are back looking at being
in
fuel control as an issue again. There is probably no single item as
important as being in fuel control for reducing emissions. If the air
fuel
ratio can be held tightly to the 14.7:1 ideal, emissions will be
reduced,
except CO2 which will increase.
If the vehicle has been running rich and has failed for CO, your repair
will
probably increase the production of NOx. A rich running engine will
tend
to
become carboned up, which increases the compression ratio. Once you
have
leaned the engine to the correct ratio, the carbon will increase the
temperature of the cylinder and there goes the NOX
|
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Michael Pardee
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
"Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ic6dne_VwtP9ovXeRVn-sw@rogers.com...
| Quote: | In my last emission test (2 yrs ago), my NOX emission was similar to the
current reading. If the EGR is quick to fail once it start to go bad, the
poor reading would point toward Catalytic converter.
Sounds like you are in pretty good shape. The converter could go quite a |
while before it gets out of limits, and it sounds like the timing is a
little advanced to boot so you have a simple thing to try if it reaches the
point where it fails... maybe squeeze out a couple more years ;-)
Mike |
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Pars
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: Understanding emission numbers and how they work |
|
|
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:y7udnY0QEM09yPTeRVn-ig@sedona.net...
| Quote: | "Pars" <sdaro(remove)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ic6dne_VwtP9ovXeRVn-sw@rogers.com...
In my last emission test (2 yrs ago), my NOX emission was similar to the
current reading. If the EGR is quick to fail once it start to go bad,
the
poor reading would point toward Catalytic converter.
Sounds like you are in pretty good shape. The converter could go quite a
while before it gets out of limits, and it sounds like the timing is a
little advanced to boot so you have a simple thing to try if it reaches
the
point where it fails... maybe squeeze out a couple more years ;-)
|
In a couple of years, the car would have accumulated over 350,000km. If the
original emission system can last that long. My hats off to Honda.
Otherwise, I'm just going have to turn it over to the niece so that she can
go crazy with the performance add on and resign myself to something a bit
more mundane.
Pars
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