Auto-Forums.net

[Scott]

My wife just had the cooling system on her 2001 Lincoln Continental
flushed and the coolant replaced (routine 45,000 mile maintenance). After
driving a few miles, the engine overheated. She immediately pulled over and
shut down. After it cooled, she limped back to the dealer...hearing a
gurgling
sound from the engine compartment. The temperature, however, stayed in the
normal zone. They're going to work on it tomorrow. The service technician
believes all the air wasn't bled out of the system, and a giant air bubble got

trapped, causing an overheat. Some coolant was sprayed on top of the
engine, so I assume the extra air vented through the coolant filler tank
when it overheated. Since she stopped right away, he didn't think the engine
was damaged. A similar thing happened to my 1999 Villager a month ago
(same dealer) after replacing the coolant. The heater at 90 degrees was
blowing cold air intermittently. They re-bled the system, all was okay. The

technician said with today's cars, it's almost impossible to get all the air
out
of the cooling system. I asked if I should expect that it done properly for
$65 an hour, and he said it's not a reliable procedure So, I said, "You just
do it
....and then hope for the best?" I should emphasize that this is a highly
reputable
and dependable Ford deale r(in MN) who has always done excellent work on
our cars...going back 14 years. I assume there's a detailed procedure for
bleeding
and refilling the cooling system. Is it possible the mechanic simply took a
few
shortcuts?

Thanks!
Scott

[nItpIk]

A shortcut in that he didn't do one or two steps at all. That's pretty
short. Some cars prove pretty difficult to get all the air out, but that
shouldn't be accepted as an excuse for doing an incomplete job. Dealers
should know exactly which cars are the troubled ones and be prepared to do
what needs to be done when the car is taken in to do the work. Usually, the
air will travel to the highest point in the entire coolant system and should
be purged at that point. The engine needs to be run while in the shop until
the thermostat opens fully and the engine needs to be run at higher rpm at
that moment with the purge point opened (on and off) to let the air out.
The heater controls should be set to full heat (although many cars don't
valve the hot water anymore for temperature control) to get the air out of
the heater core. And, this won't guarantee 100% purge, but should keep the
engine from overheating. Always check your coolant level after driving a
few miles after this process, as it may take some time to get that last bit
of air out.





"Scott" <golden@uslink.net> wrote in message
news:41BFABFA.614E8803@uslink.net...

[Guest]

Dealer shops are flat rate shops - the tech gets a set amount for the
job reguardless of how long the job takes. This generates problem
One, because most techs do the job as fast as possible to make the
best dollar, and that means taking short cuts. Problem Two - Getting
air out of some systems can be a drawn out procedure and flatrate time
doesn't allow for the extra time called for to thoroughly cycle a
system and dealerships are not social clubs - no one likes to work for
free. Problem Three - you took the car to a dealer for non warrantee
work and you paid twice the price for half a mundane job. There's a
moral in here somewhere.

Like one Chrysler dealership told me after I complained about a shoddy
job, "we got your money - fuck off". This is an exact quote.


Consider a local shop for off warrantee work. They are more loikely
to bend over backwards to keep your buisness.

[Mike Romain]

How much extra warranty did he offer for the 100,000 miles they just
took off the engine's life?

Overheating enough to blow coolant is bad news on an engine and can turn
it into an instant oil user. Watch really carefully for a puff of smoke
on the morning start up, that's the first sign the valve seals got
cooked out.

If you have an oil pressure gauge and it reads any lower or is swingy
now and wasn't before, suspect main bearing damage.

If the plugs start fouling or you get a miss, suspect blown head gasket
or cooked rings.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Scott wrote:

[Scott]

Mike,

Those are very interesting comments. Now I'm getting worried.
We returned to the dealer today, because my wife feels the heater
blower fan is not blowing as forcefully as it used to. There's
plenty of heat when set at 90F, but not the air volume...
especially noticeable on the front windshield defrost setting.

On the Contintental, I believe the heater fan is tied into the
engine temp, since it normally won't blow air at top speed when
the engine is cold.

Also, the temperature gauge (when the engine is fully warmed up) is
not in the middle of the normal range, but only goes up 1/3 of the
way into the normal range. I know on my Villager minivan, the temp
gauge is always right in the middle.

I don't know if it's related, or just the colder MN weather, but on
the highway today (about 15 miles), she only got 16.9 mpg. (That's
starting with the gauge reset to 0 mpg. Normally, she gets 20-22+
mpg.

We talked with a tech, and she said the thermostat might be going bad,
and we should bring the vehicle in tomorrow to be checked over.

She also said that air left in the cooling system is very common after
flushing the system...although an overheated engine is rare. The car
was test driven right afterwards from the warm shop. After it sat
outside in 20F weather for an hour or so, we picked it up, and it
overheated right after that. I supposed the coolant contracted while
sitting outside.

This 2001 Continental has only 43,000 miles on it and has been treated
with great care by my wife. It's disheartening to know that the engine
may have been damaged. The service tech said if it had been driven many
miles with the temperature gauge pegged on Hot, then the engine would
be damaged, but for just a few miles it wouldn't. I'm not so sure.
It was only driven 3 miles from the dealership when the low coolant
light came on the the temperature gauge maxed out.

What should we ask the dealer to do, as far as future engine problems
resulting from this incident?

Thanks much!
Scott

Mike Romain wrote:

[Guest]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:10:30 -0600, Scott <golden@uslink.net> wrote:

[Mike Romain]

Wow....

So it really sounds like it got hot enough to start destroying parts
like the thermostat, that's too bad and doesn't bode well for the
future.

If it got that hot, then I would guess the 'rubber' valve seals also got
seriously baked.

I can't advise you what to legally do, but it might be worth a call to a
lawyer to find out what help ot advise they can give you.

I seriously would be wanting some kind of extended warranty though....

Mike

Scott wrote:

[Scott]

Mike Romain wrote: